10 Cuts-Your Call

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I'm still blown out of my mind that people think Portis would generate any kind of favorable draft pick. I'm serious guys, i really believe that he would only get us a 4th round or 3rd round pick. And it's not just his physical condition/injury risk that would warn off teams...its his attitude too.

No one is giving us a ham sandwich for Portis, Cooley or Landry. They have stupid contracts and no one is going to take them on.

The guys that could get traded would be Campbell and Rogers and we might get a 6th and 7th rounder for each.

Just like our coaches, people need to pull their head out of their asses.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

No one is giving us a ham sandwich for Portis, Cooley or Landry. They have stupid contracts and no one is going to take them on.

The guys that could get traded would be Campbell and Rogers and we might get a 6th and 7th rounder for each.

Just like our coaches, people need to pull their head out of their asses.

First off, the point of the thread was to ignore salary cap ramifications. Second, you underestimate the value of our players and the stupidity of some NFL personnel folks (Lions, Browns, Raiders, etc.). Third, in an uncapped season dumping bad contracts in some sort of sign and trade is a possibility, even if the compensation is for 4th and lower round picks.

- Portis - some team looking for help at RB with a solid OL would be interested in him for a 1 or 2 year deal.
- Cooley - Pro Bowl TE, he has value.
- Landry - Has physical tools, upstairs seems pretty vacant but some defensive HC will look at him and blame his poor performance on the Skins poor coaching/organization and think they can make a superstar out of him.
- Campbell - as others have said he could be a solid backup or game manager, certainly worth more than a 6th rounder.
- Rogers - meh, if I can't get value keep him next year for depth.

and about pulling heads out of hind-quarters....think before you post.

[jgalecpa]

Most are based on performance, some on trade value.
1. Fred Smoot
2. Jason Campbell
3. LaRon Landry
4. Chris Cooley (Trade value)
5. Carlos Rogers
6. Clinton Portis
7. Sanata moss
8. ARE
9. Chris Samuels
10. Mike Sellers


Financial Considerations not withstanding.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

First off, the point of the thread was to ignore salary cap ramifications. Second, you underestimate the value of our players and the stupidity of some NFL personnel folks (Lions, Browns, Raiders, etc.). Third, in an uncapped season dumping bad contracts in some sort of sign and trade is a possibility, even if the compensation is for 4th and lower round picks.

- Portis - some team looking for help at RB with a solid OL would be interested in him for a 1 or 2 year deal.
- Cooley - Pro Bowl TE, he has value.
- Landry - Has physical tools, upstairs seems pretty vacant but some defensive HC will look at him and blame his poor performance on the Skins poor coaching/organization and think they can make a superstar out of him.
- Campbell - as others have said he could be a solid backup or game manager, certainly worth more than a 6th rounder.
- Rogers - meh, if I can't get value keep him next year for depth.

and about pulling heads out of hind-quarters....think before you post.

I have put plenty of thought into this and I disagree with the idea that I am undervaluing our players. The people who want to flat out release Haynesworth and Hall for nothing are undervaluing players. And the people who think we are going to get anything near a first round pick or multiple picks for any of these guys are in fantasy land.

You cannot completely ignore the cap numbers because if we trade the guys their contract goes with them. I am not worried about our cap hit, I am talking about the salaries in their current deals.

So there are two problems with Portis. One, a lot of people (I am not one of them) think he is done because of mileage and age. The second problem is his contract. Portis was the highest paid runningback this last year and produced like a backup. Good football teams don't spend ridiculous amounts of money on old runningbacks. Seattle and Arizona did it recently and both were burned. Except for a few guys, runningbacks are interchangeable. Teams would let us release Portis and then sign him but NOBODY is going to trade us anything for him.

Cooley - yes he is worth something but I don't see anyone giving us more than a third. He is expensive for a tight end and his contract would go with him.

Landry is probably the most valuable guy in your list but we would be trading him while his value is at its lowest. We might be able to get a second rounder for him but with his coverage struggles recently, maybe not.

If Campbell was worth a second rounder he would have already been gone and we would have Cutler. So 3rd is the highest possible pick and I am not convinced the interest is out there.

Rogers - I am sure we could get a 3rd rounder for Rogers maybe a 2nd. He is an above average cornerback, solid against the run and is still working off his rookie deal.

[poopoobigelow]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

I have put plenty of thought into this and I disagree with the idea that I am undervaluing our players. The people who want to flat out release Haynesworth and Hall for nothing are undervaluing players. And the people who think we are going to get anything near a first round pick or multiple picks for any of these guys are in fantasy land.

You cannot completely ignore the cap numbers because if we trade the guys their contract goes with them. I am not worried about our cap hit, I am talking about the salaries in their current deals.

So there are two problems with Portis. One, a lot of people (I am not one of them) think he is done because of mileage and age. The second problem is his contract. Portis was the highest paid runningback this last year and produced like a backup. Good football teams don't spend ridiculous amounts of money on old runningbacks. Seattle and Arizona did it recently and both were burned. Except for a few guys, runningbacks are interchangeable. Teams would let us release Portis and then sign him but NOBODY is going to trade us anything for him.

Cooley - yes he is worth something but I don't see anyone giving us more than a third. He is expensive for a tight end and his contract would go with him.

Landry is probably the most valuable guy in your list but we would be trading him while his value is at its lowest. We might be able to get a second rounder for him but with his coverage struggles recently, maybe not.

If Campbell was worth a second rounder he would have already been gone and we would have Cutler. So 3rd is the highest possible pick and I am not convinced the interest is out there.

Rogers - I am sure we could get a 3rd rounder for Rogers maybe a 2nd. He is an above average cornerback, solid against the run and is still working off his rookie deal.

i agree with you about portis... it's one of those deals that if we put him on the trade block, an interested team will not give us anything becasue they know we'll want to cut him, and no one will want to rake his contract...

if we do decide not to keep campbell and tender him (i think we should keep him), you never know what we could get... looking at the contract orlovsky signed with the texans, (3 years, 9 mil!) and these same texans getting a fourth for rosenfels (a 4th!) -- both, now, third stringers... a premium is put on QBs that aren't on any other position... campbell could fetch a third rounder, maybe a second if someone were desperate enough... i think that campbell has garnered a lot of respect around the league for his handling the cutler/sanchez saga and for the moxie in getting up over and over...

rodgers could have value, but i would try to low-ball him and keep him for depth...

keep landry, let's see what a different/better DC can do with him... he has the talent and the tools to be very good... someone like gregggg williams got that out of him... blache wasted it...

i agree that there is no way you cut haynesworth or d hall... that would be beyond foolish...

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

I have put plenty of thought into this and I disagree with the idea that I am undervaluing our players. The people who want to flat out release Haynesworth and Hall for nothing are undervaluing players. And the people who think we are going to get anything near a first round pick or multiple picks for any of these guys are in fantasy land.

Agree.

You cannot completely ignore the cap numbers because if we trade the guys their contract goes with them. I am not worried about our cap hit, I am talking about the salaries in their current deals.

So there are two problems with Portis. One, a lot of people (I am not one of them) think he is done because of mileage and age. The second problem is his contract. Portis was the highest paid runningback this last year and produced like a backup. Good football teams don't spend ridiculous amounts of money on old runningbacks. Seattle and Arizona did it recently and both were burned. Except for a few guys, runningbacks are interchangeable. Teams would let us release Portis and then sign him but NOBODY is going to trade us anything for him.

That's where sign and trade comes in. If my understanding is correct. We redo his contract to an acceptable amount for the new team, sign him to that deal and then trade him. Obviously we have to eat the signing bonus, but it's not a cap hit in an uncapped year. I think we could get a 4th or so for Portis, if so I jump on that deal rather than get nothing.

Cooley - yes he is worth something but I don't see anyone giving us more than a third. He is expensive for a tight end and his contract would go with him.

Sign & trade again, and if it's a high third I make the deal, probably a mid-third also.

Landry is probably the most valuable guy in your list but we would be trading him while his value is at its lowest. We might be able to get a second rounder for him but with his coverage struggles recently, maybe not.

same with Landry, if I can get a 2nd or high 3rd he's gone, anything lower and I hang onto him. He must be moved to SS in any scenario and can't be used in any type of Cover-2 Zone scheme.

If Campbell was worth a second rounder he would have already been gone and we would have Cutler. So 3rd is the highest possible pick and I am not convinced the interest is out there.

Give me a third for Campbell and I'd break my hand trying to sign the deal too fast. I'd take even a fourth for him.

Rogers - I am sure we could get a 3rd rounder for Rogers maybe a 2nd. He is an above average cornerback, solid against the run and is still working off his rookie deal.

Agree here too, if we can't get value for him we hang onto him.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I'm still blown out of my mind that people think Portis would generate any kind of favorable draft pick. I'm serious guys, i really believe that he would only get us a 4th round or 3rd round pick. And it's not just his physical condition/injury risk that would warn off teams...its his attitude too.

I'd take a 3rd for Portis any day of the week.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

I'd take a 3rd for Portis any day of the week.

Me too.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I'm still blown out of my mind that people think Portis would generate any kind of favorable draft pick. I'm serious guys, i really believe that he would only get us a 4th round or 3rd round pick. And it's not just his physical condition/injury risk that would warn off teams...its his attitude too.

You don't consider a 3rd round pick for someone with Portis's mileage "favorable"? Vinny, is that you?!?!?!

[Trample the Elderly]

(1) Chris Samuels
(2) Randy Thomas
(3) Clinton Portis
(4) Stephon Heyer
(5) Santana Moss
(6) ARE
(7) Ladell Betts
(8) LaRon Landry
(9) Fred Smoot
(10) Cornelius Griffin

(11) Renaldo Wynn
(12) Phillip Daniels
(13) Edwin Williams

(14) The entire coaching staff. All of them, no exceptions.

Yeah I know I went over but some of these guys are going to retire anyway.

[rydynsydwayz]

OK, Let's take a look at the Logical Cuts, not just base upon passion and disgruntlement following one of the worst home performances in team history.

1) Clinton Portis - (complete shell of his former self)

2) Ladell Betts - (We can all count on more than 2 hands how many practice squad and currently unemployed backs are better than this clown)

3) Colt Brennan - (This publicity stunt bust of a project does not have NFL talent. Lets not waste time, try to find a real diamond in the rough. Brennan, 26, is only 1 year younger than Campbell, 27, and will never be as good as Jason -who is only mediocre himself-. How bout this analogy: Brennan is to Quarterbacking as Zorn is to Coaching. Both are way in over their head. Also Richard Bartell actually has a better arm and more tools to work with than Brennan)

4) Rock Cartwright - (Backup running backs are supposed to have some kind of dynamic trait. Super Speed, Excellent Hands, Exceptional Return man, etc. Rock is no longer a very effective returner. We appreciate everything, but it's time to move on.)

5) Antwaan Randle-El - (Past his prime and salary does not reflect anticipated future contributions. He's no longer a valid punt return option and with the development of the young pass catchers, should fall further down the pecking order.)

6) William Robinson - (Position will be upgraded during off-season)

7) Fred Smoot - (Past his prime and fading fast. Let Barnes and Tryon get the reps, one of them should grow into the future nickleback. We appreciate all the hard work in the past and the great interviews.)

8) Reynaldo Wynn - (Also past prime and fading fast. Thanks for being a grizzled warrior but we need to develop Jarmon and started getting him in on the DE rotations.

9) Philip Daniels - (Past prime/Fading fast, excellent technique guy but no longer has the talent to perform. We REALLY appreciate the loyalty and hunger. Would you like to stick around as a DE coach to teach technique to the young guys and be a presence in the Locker Room?)

10) Kareem Moore - (Questionable ability... Lets rid ourselves of someone that causes opposing QB's to salivate when they see him lined up in the defensive backfield. Can't cover TE's. Position should be upgraded during the offseason and also an attempt made to get Landry to his natural position.)

[TheSmurfs22]

My cuts:
Rogers
Kelly
Smoot
Samuels (hopefully for his own health he will retire)
Randy Thomas (injuries have become too much)
Randle El
Wynn
Portis

[celts32]

Clinton Portis
Albert Haynesworth
Me-Angelo Hall
Mike Sellers
Ladell Betts
Santana Moss
Chris Samuels
Todd Collins
ARE
R.Wynn


I think they need to rid themselves of all players that represent the overspending Snyderatto culture of this team.

[SolidSnake84]

Then if we have no choice but to keep him, then they need to use him in pass blocking situations only, and use him absolutley sparingly in running situations. However, being the person that CP is...he would likely never agree to this.

We need to go ahead and trade him for whatever we can get at this point. Don't let ourselves be fooled into thinking that CP is the only back out there who can pass block.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

Then if we have no choice but to keep him, then they need to use him in pass blocking situations only, and use him absolutley sparingly in running situations. However, being the person that CP is...he would likely never agree to this.

We need to go ahead and trade him for whatever we can get at this point. Don't let ourselves be fooled into thinking that CP is the only back out there who can pass block.

Exactly the reason why he needs to go. And while it may not make sense to some, I think Portis is a symbol (not the only one) of the dysfunction that has happened with this team. Every time there's talk of getting a new RB, analysts are always like "what would Portis think of this?" or "Portis is not going to like this." And it shouldn't be this way. I think this team needs to take a page from other teams who have parted with their aging RB (Baltimore and J. Lewis, Colts and Edge, Giants with Tiki, etc., etc.) and just part ways with Portis.