Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Dear god. Fox news again? Sammy, for the love of god stop reading that crap.

As usual, they distort and exaggerate the truth. Let's start with that first point.

At this point, Fox News should be treated much like The Onion when it comes to stories.

As usual with you and 12th, you'll discount anything from Fox without reading/admiting the facts in their articles. I'm not going to comb through the actual Obamacare legislation to cite page/paragraph for the following points mentioned in the Fox link, but I'll cut out virtually all the commentary. Still leaves some pretty hefty tax increases that I noticed you couldn't/didn't address in your response:

- Currently, Americans are allowed to deduct medical expenses on their 1040 form to the extent the costs exceed 7.5 percent of one’s adjusted gross income. The new ObamaCare provision will raise that threshold to 10 percent, subjecting patients to a higher tax bill. This tax will hit pre-retirement seniors the hardest. Over the next ten years, affected Americans will pony up a minimum total of $15 billion in taxes thanks to this provision.

- The 24 million Americans who have Flexible Spending Accounts will face a new federally imposed $2,500 annual cap. These pre-tax accounts, which currently have no federal limit.......The cap will also affect families with special-needs children, whose tuition can be covered using FSA funds. Special-needs tuition can cost up to $14,000 per child per year......so that the federal government can squeeze an additional $13 billion out of taxpayer pockets over the next ten years......

- Under current law, the capital gains tax rate for all Americans rises from 15 to 20 percent in 2013, while the top dividend rate rises from 15 to 39.6 percent. The new ObamaCare surtax takes the top capital gains rate to 23.8 percent and top dividend rate to 43.4 percent. The tax will take a minimum of $123 billion out of taxpayer pockets over the next ten years.

- The ObamaCare Medicare Payroll Tax increase - This tax soaks employers to the tune of $86 billion over the next ten years.

When you can't counter the facts, try to disparage the source....must be straight from Rules for Radicals. If you guys discount Fox, I guess those on the right can discount CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CBS, WaPo, NYT, LAT, etc.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

When you can't counter the facts, try to disparage the source....must be straight from Rules for Radicals. If you guys discount Fox, I guess those on the right can discount CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CBS, WaPo, NYT, LAT, etc.

I said they distorted and exaggerated, not that any of their information was incorrect. I used the first point as a example of them saying how the tax on prosthetic limbs was going to cost jobs/research in that area. It's hogwash, and it's simply not the case as noted from the articles I posted.


Isn't the WaPo more conservative leaning? Also, if you think all those media outlets are left leaning then you have no idea what unbiased or neutral is. I had this right winger (a friend at that) tell me that the BBC news was not only liberal, but also anti-american.

Just because they (media) point out Fox's slants and trashy news, doesn't mean they are liberal. It means they are setting the record straight.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

- Currently, Americans are allowed to deduct medical expenses on their 1040 form to the extent the costs exceed 7.5 percent of one’s adjusted gross income. The new ObamaCare provision will raise that threshold to 10 percent, subjecting patients to a higher tax bill. This tax will hit pre-retirement seniors the hardest. Over the next ten years, affected Americans will pony up a minimum total of $15 billion in taxes thanks to this provision.

.

...we are allowed but how many hit it?Point is if it 7.5 or 10% I haven't hit it or would have hit it in the last 10 years,THIS WILL NOT EFFECT ME.I am a pre retirment senior,these numbers are thrown out but in reality ....noone knows.If I or the Mrs get sick (God forbid) then yes I might have a higher % to hit but the bill would be smaller and that is what all the anti Obama chicken littles are afraid of that Joe Public will find out.

[12thMan]

You're still kinda missing the point or you didn't read it. The legislation is projected to pay for itself or come close. If you only take into consideration outlays and spending and don't factor in revenue and savings well, of course, it appears to explode the deficit.

It doesn’t include the Medicare cuts, or many of the tax increases, that pay for the legislation. “CBO and JCT have previously estimated that the ACA will, on net, reduce budget deficits over the 2012–2021 period; that estimate of the overall budgetary impact of the ACA has not been updated.”

The bottom line is this, CBO will roll out more concrete deficit reduction numbers at some point in the future. I imagine more than once. Each year a new projection is done the legislation tends to cost a little more...and save more.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You're still kinda missing the point or you didn't read it. The legislation is projected to pay for itself or come close. If you only take into consideration outlays and spending and don't factor in revenue and savings well, of course, it appears to explode the deficit.

It doesn’t include the Medicare cuts, or many of the tax increases, that pay for the legislation. “CBO and JCT have previously estimated that the ACA will, on net, reduce budget deficits over the 2012–2021 period; that estimate of the overall budgetary impact of the ACA has not been updated.”

The bottom line is this, CBO will roll out more concrete deficit reduction numbers at some point in the future. I imagine more than once. Each year a new projection is done the legislation tends to cost a little more...and save more.

Yea right, please name a major federal program that has not run way over its projected cost when it became law.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Yea right, please name a major federal program that has not run way over its projected cost when it became law.

Got me there. But given that healthcare represents 17% of GDP, it's the one that has the biggest drain on the economy, doing nothing and repeal this and repeal that isn't an option any longer.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Got me there. But given that healthcare represents 17% of GDP, it's the one that has the biggest drain on the economy, doing nothing and repeal this and repeal that isn't an option any longer.

Not sure if I would say its a total drain. Isn't that 17% of GDP going back into the system one way or another. Medical providers, hospitals, medical equipment, nurses, ambulance, construction, etc... make a living of medical cost and that 17%. I agree we need to cut cost but this is not the way.

[12thMan]

One more thing SS33, your $700B estimate is looking at a different time frame when the law was originally passed. The first two years of it didn't cost much because there wasn't much implementation. The new estimates cover 2011-2012.

On a side note every year it costs more to repeal the law, which explodes the deficit. CBO says repeal would costs $230 billion. Basically Republicans are full of shit when they say repeal and replace.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

One more thing SS33, your $700B estimate is looking at a different time frame when the law was originally passed. The first two years of it didn't cost much because there wasn't much implementation. The new estimates cover 2011-2012.

On a side note every year it costs more to repeal the law, which explodes the deficit. CBO says repeal would costs $230 billion. Basically Republicans are full of shit when they say repeal and replace.

.........this.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

One more thing SS33, your $700B estimate is looking at a different time frame when the law was originally passed. The first two years of it didn't cost much because there wasn't much implementation. The new estimates cover 2011-2012.

On a side note every year it costs more to repeal the law, which explodes the deficit. CBO says repeal would costs $230 billion. Basically Republicans are full of shit when they say repeal and replace.

I think the repeal cost is based on going with (Obamacare + taxes) vs. projected costs going back to the old system. I don't think the CBO number refers to what Republicans are proposing at all. So how can you say the Repubs are full of **** in this case?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

I think the repeal cost is based on going with (Obamacare + taxes) vs. projected costs going back to the old system. I don't think the CBO number refers to what Republicans are proposing at all. So how can you say the Repubs are full of **** in this case?

The latter part of your statement, Republicans have neither set forth a proposal for how they plan to repeal the law nor one to replace it. Frankly they're full of shit because Obamacare is a Republican model. If they've abandoned their own idea, one that originated at a Republican think tank, what do you suppose they plan to replace the law with? They aren't that's what.

They're full of it.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

The latter part of your statement, Republicans have neither set forth a proposal for how they plan to repeal the law nor one to replace it. Frankly they're full of shit because Obamacare is a Republican model. If they've abandoned their own idea, one that originated at a Republican think tank, what do you suppose they plan to replace the law with? They aren't that's what.

They're full of it.

Maybe they just realized it was a bad idea.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Maybe they just realized it was a bad idea.

maybe, or maybe they realize they should have done it first.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Maybe they just realized it was a bad idea.

No, it's not a bad idea.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Maybe they just realized it was a bad idea.

The role of a government is to solve problems faced by its people. Sometimes solutions are less than optimal and sometimes they aren't solutions at all. Rarely is it possible to have a perfect solution or do nothing as a solution. Obamacare solves a problem faced by a great deal of Americans and if you have a better idea you are welcome to share it. Saying it's a bad idea and pointing to faults here and there without having an alternative solution to the problem won't cut it.

This is something "conservatives" use to understand when they conceived of Obamacare but now they have to pander to goofy people who refuse to think.