KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide

[MTK]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Because to them he was a friend, a teammate, a family member...someone who mattered to them. Ultimately what he did in the end defines him but to the people who knew him there's no switch to forget all the stuff they loved.

To you, someone who didn't know him, its easy to just define him as a killer because that's all you know of him.

Well said.

It's a tragedy from many different angles.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Because to them he was a friend, a teammate, a family member...someone who mattered to them. Ultimately what he did in the end defines him but to the people who knew him there's no switch to forget all the stuff they loved.

To you, someone who didn't know him, its easy to just define him as a killer because that's all you know of him.

Very well said.

I'm sick of these mindless babbling morons that talk about him being a coward, a killer, etc., etc. all to win an argument on the internet (you should see the comments section on ESPN.com, ridiculous).

This whole situation is a tragedy for everyone involved. Part of that tragedy is whatever went wrong in the mind of Belcher that drove him to commit such terrible act.

It's just sad situation all around.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Because to them he was a friend, a teammate, a family member...someone who mattered to them. Ultimately what he did in the end defines him but to the people who knew him there's no switch to forget all the stuff they loved.

To you, someone who didn't know him, its easy to just define him as a killer because that's all you know of him.

Although internally, it might be hard for them to reconcile what their friend and team mate did, having a tribute at his locker is incredibly inappropriate.

If one of your friends from work were secretly a terrorist and strapped c4 to his body, walked on a schoolbus, and blew everyone up, would you hold a memorial for him at work? You knew him as a nice guy, and it would be hard for you to reconcile your friendship with him with his last actions, but out of respect for those he killed and general human decency, you wouldnt memorialize him in any public way.

its understandable that theyre having a hard time coping with Belchers actions and death, but by setting up a tribute at Belchers locker, the Chiefs have shown gross disrespect to his victims family.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Although internally, it might be hard for them to reconcile what their friend and team mate did, having a tribute at his locker is incredibly inappropriate.

If one of your friends from work were secretly a terrorist and strapped c4 to his body, walked on a schoolbus, and blew everyone up, would you hold a memorial for him at work? You knew him as a nice guy, and it would be hard for you to reconcile your friendship with him with his last actions, but out of respect for those he killed and general human decency, you wouldnt memorialize him in any public way.

its understandable that theyre having a hard time coping with Belchers actions and death, but by setting up a tribute at Belchers locker, the Chiefs have shown gross disrespect to his victims family.

I hadn't heard they had a tribute to him. I'd have to see what "tribute" meant. But I can definitely see how it could be disrespectful. My point is that it isn't just a binary decision. You are what you've done. ALL of what you've done.

BTW...in my opinion equating murdering in the heat of the moment to executing a premeditated terrorist attack that kills dozens of innocent bystanders is a little off. Not that either is "better" but they're not the same thing at all. One takes actual pure evil...the other takes...well whatever it takes in whatever the given circumstance is.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I hadn't heard they had a tribute to him. I'd have to see what "tribute" meant. But I can definitely see how it could be disrespectful. My point is that it isn't just a binary decision. You are what you've done. ALL of what you've done.

BTW...in my opinion equating murdering in the heat of the moment to executing a premeditated terrorist attack that kills dozens of innocent bystanders is a little off. Not that either is "better" but they're not the same thing at all. One takes actual pure evil...the other takes...well whatever it takes in whatever the given circumstance is.

I couldnt disagree more with your second point. Both require pre-meditation. You dont shoot someone 9 times randomly in the heat of the moment. Think about someone very close to you. Can you envision a situation where you shot him/her 9 times? Probably not. To get to the point where youre take the life of another human being, you have to develop and cultivate a hatred for them. You probably fantasize about it. You dont think that you'll ever do it, but you hate that person and wish they were dead. You let those feelings build up in you for a long time, simmering. Then, one day when youre fighting, you actually think, "you know what, i'm going to do it. I hate this person and i'm going to get rid of them." And then you do it. Thats pure evil. Belcher killed the mother of his child in cold blood. Then, he killed himself because he was too much of a coward to face the consequences of his actions.

If he hadnt killed himself, its possible, in time, he could have repented (and i'm not speaking in a religious sense) and attoned for what he had done. He could have tried to make ammends to the best of his ability. He could have tried to do some good to society. In that situation, you could look at him as a 70 year old man and say, "you were a murderer, but thats not ALL you are. You've changed, and you've done good to your fellow man." But Belcher denied himself that chance. His last act, before killing himself, was to take the life of another human being. Nothing he did prior to that matters, because that last act was so heinous and evil that it overshadows everything else.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Although internally, it might be hard for them to reconcile what their friend and team mate did, having a tribute at his locker is incredibly inappropriate.

If one of your friends from work were secretly a terrorist and strapped c4 to his body, walked on a schoolbus, and blew everyone up, would you hold a memorial for him at work? You knew him as a nice guy, and it would be hard for you to reconcile your friendship with him with his last actions, but out of respect for those he killed and general human decency, you wouldnt memorialize him in any public way.

its understandable that theyre having a hard time coping with Belchers actions and death, but by setting up a tribute at Belchers locker, the Chiefs have shown gross disrespect to his victims family.

I think there is a big different between someone being a terrorist and someone having something go wrong in their mind to commit a murder/suicide. And I keep saying that something went wrong with his mind, because I don't think a rational/sane person would do what he did.

If I am not mistaken, both families (Perkins' and Belcher's) are mourning both of their deaths.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think there is a big different between someone being a terrorist and someone having something go wrong in their mind to commit a murder/suicide. And I keep saying that something went wrong with his mind, because I don't think a rational/sane person would do what he did.

If I am not mistaken, both families (Perkins' and Belcher's) are mourning both of their deaths.

He definitely had issues, the Chiefs had been dealing with it behind close doors for months

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Although internally, it might be hard for them to reconcile what their friend and team mate did, having a tribute at his locker is incredibly inappropriate.

If one of your friends from work were secretly a terrorist and strapped c4 to his body, walked on a schoolbus, and blew everyone up, would you hold a memorial for him at work? You knew him as a nice guy, and it would be hard for you to reconcile your friendship with him with his last actions, but out of respect for those he killed and general human decency, you wouldnt memorialize him in any public way.

its understandable that theyre having a hard time coping with Belchers actions and death, but by setting up a tribute at Belchers locker, the Chiefs have shown gross disrespect to his victims family.

Thought Eric Winston said it well

"He was a player on this team. We're all struggling to reconcile the conflicting emotions we have about a family member, a teammate and the tragic events that took place yesterday. It's hard."

But, this is like the deal with Snyder saying "I hate those mother****ers!" about the Giants in the locker room. The locker room should not be seen as a public place. They did not have a moment of silence for him before the game in front of the fans. There was no vigil. There was no public memorializing

And, I don't know why, but they set up Belcher's locker the same way they have Kevin Boss' locker (IR-concussion)

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Thought Eric Winston said it well

"He was a player on this team. We're all struggling to reconcile the conflicting emotions we have about a family member, a teammate and the tragic events that took place yesterday. It's hard."

But, this is like the deal with Snyder saying "I hate those mother****ers!" about the Giants in the locker room. The locker room should not be seen as a public place. They did not have a moment of silence for him before the game in front of the fans. There was no vigil. There was no public memorializing

And, I don't know why, but they set up Belcher's locker the same way they have Kevin Boss' locker (IR-concussion)

Bringing it back to the football angle, you're completely right. The lines between public access/privacy in sports are increasingly blurred. Regardless of how we feel about what happened for those 52 other men, coaches, staff, etc. they are dealing with the immediate and violent loss of someone they saw on a daily basis, ate with, traveled with, shared meetings with, shared hotel rooms with and much more. As awful as his acts were on that day, his physical presence is missed (by nothing more than it's absence) by those who interacted with him daily. While the team certainly isn't honoring him, it may be compounding the trauma to those in the locker-room to immediately erase all signs of his existence.

[SmootSmack]

I'm sure it's extremely difficult for his friends and teammates to suddenly just forget everything they shared with him that none of us did

[CRedskinsRule]

from the ESPN AFC Blog. Just a little disconcerting after the Belcher incident:

RAVENS: Linebacker Terrell Suggs returned to practice Thursday after sitting out the day before. He remains a game-time decision, and doesn't plan to wear a brace for his torn biceps if he does play, according to the team's official website. In other news, Suggs had to surrender several firearms stemming from a domestic case involving his girlfriend, Suggs' attorney told The Baltimore Sun on Thursday. Court records indicate Suggs filed a custody complaint against Candace Williams on Nov. 19, and that Williams filed a complaint against him after that. Two 911 calls were received from Suggs' address on Nov. 21, but did not yield any reports, police told The Sun.

[SmootSmack]

I don't know, doubt anyone here does either, what Belcher's mental state was. And I especially know that I'm in no position to understand how his teammates are coping or how they should feel

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't know, doubt anyone here does either, what Belcher's mental state was. And I especially know that I'm in no position to understand how his teammates are coping or how they should feel

I agree with both of those statements. I just beleive it doesnt matter what mental state he was in. he is responsible for allowing himself to get in whatever state it was that allowed him to murder another human being. I also dont think we can dictate how other people should FEEL when coping with a situation like this. My opinion is just that a tribute at his locker is disrepectful.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I agree with both of those statements. I just beleive it doesnt matter what mental state he was in. he is responsible for allowing himself to get in whatever state it was that allowed him to murder another human being. I also dont think we can dictate how other people should FEEL when coping with a situation like this. My opinion is just that a tribute at his locker is disrepectful.

I think you are trying to make a complicated situation into something simple.

Oh and those disrespectful people who you are dictating how should feel and cope just created a trust fund for that little girl.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't know, doubt anyone here does either, what Belcher's mental state was. And I especially know that I'm in no position to understand how his teammates are coping or how they should feel

Right...and I'd add.

I don't think a single one of us is in any position to judge how evil someone is when everyone's definition is different and we have so little information to go on. I don't agree at all with BHA really but I also don't think he's "wrong". It's just not how I look at this situation. Trying to convert someone's opinion on a deeply complicated and nuanced subject such as this is useless.