Mascot Issue (AGAIN)

[itvnetop]

Originally Posted by SkinEmAll

well I did as you suggested. I re-read the paragraph and to be honest, nothing changed. sorry.

No worries... go to the fifth paragraph. Read it. If you want the direct quote itself, skip to the sentence starting with "Most Native Americans aren't offended" in that same paragraph.

If nothing changes, then there's nothing more I can do... i give up!

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

So only minority groups can be offended?

That is one question that I have always wanted answered myself. But, getting back to this argument of using Native American monikers for sports teams, I am wondering if this isn't just a ploy to wipe out any recognition for NA altogether? There is no Native American History month. How are Native Americans being recognized an any other way besides sports?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

There is no Native American History month.

November

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

November

I stand correct...lol!!!

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by Hog1

PC BS is.................PC BS. You can't tell the truth anymore for fear of offending someone and get your ass sued off. It has reached epidemic proportions in ridicularity.
The FEW who are doing the complaining are not necessarily representive of those THEY SAY they are protecting.
I think it was last year that I saw the "Chief" representaive (I don't recall the title) in the state of Florida for the Seminole Indian tribe in an interview. The interviewer thought they would make some PC headlines, but the Seminole rep surprised him. She flatly stated, and I paraphrase " the Seminole people do NOT look upon the use of it's name, image ar anything thing else by FSU as negative. On the contrary, we know from experience that the students, alums, and faculty hold the school and it's Seminole affiliation in the highest possible regard! Why would we have a problem with that?"
I about stroked out on hearing that.
The face of reason.

We as a race need to lighten up and quit TRYING to find new ways to be the victim.

And if that does not work for you, you can support my..........second favorite team:

Fighting Whites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fighting Whities Mascot Causes Stir

The Fighting Whites Online Shop : CafePress.com

The Seminole tribe being ok with Florida State's usage of the Seminole name and images is not a blanket exemption for all sports teams to continue to use potentially slanderous monikers with impunity. It was based on a specific relationship that FSU shares, promotes, and respects with the Seminole tribe in Florida and Seminole Nation in Oklahoma.

It seems very American for anyone to tell someone else what should and shouldn't be offended, right in line with us telling Iraq what kind of government they should have and declaring an "axis of evil" or labeling other gov'ts as "rogue" govt's. In that vein, of course we should keep the Redskins (tongue firmly planted in cheek).

The whole PC movement is not about not telling the truth, its about respecting the power of words. Freedom of speech does not include protection of inflammatory language, much like you can't yell "Fire" in a crowded movie theater. By continually marginalizing the only indigenous people of North America under the guise of "respect" is asanine and disrespectful. Has being a Redskins fan caused anyone to do any research on the Indian tribes that once called this region home? When was the last time anyone used the word Redskin in a context that didn't involve the team?

To paraphrase Shakespeare, that which we call the Skins, by any other name, would have stunk just as much last year.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by memphisskin

The whole PC movement is not about not telling the truth, its about respecting the power of words.

Maybe if we had more of a movement for telling the truth, then the power of words would not seem so powerful. What is the old saying, sticks and stones?

[Rajmahal33]

Originally Posted by memphisskin

The Seminole tribe being ok with Florida State's usage of the Seminole name and images is not a blanket exemption for all sports teams to continue to use potentially slanderous monikers with impunity. It was based on a specific relationship that FSU shares, promotes, and respects with the Seminole tribe in Florida and Seminole Nation in Oklahoma.

It seems very American for anyone to tell someone else what should and shouldn't be offended, right in line with us telling Iraq what kind of government they should have and declaring an "axis of evil" or labeling other gov'ts as "rogue" govt's. In that vein, of course we should keep the Redskins (tongue firmly planted in cheek).

The whole PC movement is not about not telling the truth, its about respecting the power of words. Freedom of speech does not include protection of inflammatory language, much like you can't yell "Fire" in a crowded movie theater. By continually marginalizing the only indigenous people of North America under the guise of "respect" is asanine and disrespectful. Has being a Redskins fan caused anyone to do any research on the Indian tribes that once called this region home? When was the last time anyone used the word Redskin in a context that didn't involve the team?

To paraphrase Shakespeare, that which we call the Skins, by any other name, would have stunk just as much last year.

U make a VERY good point here. I love the skins as much as anyone else but I am not gonna be ignorant enough to say that our team's name is derived out of respect and with the intent to honor the native americans which inspired it. When the name was changed to the redskins we lived in a non-PC age and ppl didn't care (or at least pay as much attention) about being sensitive. I guess its hard for some ppl to understand why others are getting so worked up over something as insignificant as a football teams name (one way or the other), but i think its more about the principle. Personally, I am not that caught up in the issue and I do NOT favor the name being changed because I am not native american and it doesn't offend me. But rather, the name invokes a sense of pride for a franchise that I have grown up watching. However, if it were changed I wouldn't stop cheering for the Washington franchise and I certainly wouldnt try to be stubborn and continue to call them the redskins.

The Bottom Line is that if Native Americans can somehow come to a true consensus about their feelings on the subject (not some misguided study), and they feel strongly enough to put pressure on the franchise to change the name, then it would be insensitive to not change the name. Since they have yet to put forth that kind of effort, there should be no reason to change the status quo. So until then HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Rajmahal33

The Bottom Line is that if Native Americans can somehow come to a true consensus about their feelings on the subject (not some misguided study), and they feel strongly enough to put pressure on the franchise to change the name, then it would be insensitive to not change the name. Since they have yet to put forth that kind of effort, there should be no reason to change the status quo. So until then HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!

I think this says it all. Until it is the Native Americans themselves, as a whole and without outside influence, coming to the table and saying this team moniker is offensive to us, then there is no reason to change the name. What this issue is summed up in saying is that since our society has changed, then we should tell the Native Americans what they should and should not be offended by. For Pete sake, let them decide for themselves. If the Native Americans as a whole say the moniker of the Washington pro football team is offensive to them, then I would say gladly change the name. I will still root for the team regardless.

I just want to say one more thing about this politically correct movement then I am done with the topic. If one truly wants to have a society, as a whole, politically correct, then they must look at all issues rather than just one. When I hear people talk about the "politically correct" age, they only refer to racial issues. I am sorry, but if you truly want to be politically correct, you need to look at other issues in addition to racial ones. We as a society are trying to be more sensitive when it comes to racial issues, but it is a free for all when it comes to how bad our television programs, music, and fashion has become. Please don't sit there and tell me that you fully support a politically correct movement, then have a mouth full of profane words to use. That is a contradiction. To me, if we want to have a society that is pleasing for everybody, then we need to clean up the music we listen to, the television we watch, the video games we play, the language we use, and the clothes we wear. And that doesn't even scratch the surface of being politically correct either. Let the Native Americans be free to voice their concerns about this matter. Let the rest of us worry about cleaning ourselves up.

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

I think this says it all. Until it is the Native Americans themselves, as a whole and without outside influence, coming to the table and saying this team moniker is offensive to us, then there is no reason to change the name. What this issue is summed up in saying is that since our society has changed, then we should tell the Native Americans what they should and should not be offended by. For Pete sake, let them decide for themselves. If the Native Americans as a whole say the moniker of the Washington pro football team is offensive to them, then I would say gladly change the name. I will still root for the team regardless.

I just want to say one more thing about this politically correct movement then I am done with the topic. If one truly wants to have a society, as a whole, politically correct, then they must look at all issues rather than just one. When I hear people talk about the "politically correct" age, they only refer to racial issues. I am sorry, but if you truly want to be politically correct, you need to look at other issues in addition to racial ones. We as a society are trying to be more sensitive when it comes to racial issues, but it is a free for all when it comes to how bad our television programs, music, and fashion has become. Please don't sit there and tell me that you fully support a politically correct movement, then have a mouth full of profane words to use. That is a contradiction. To me, if we want to have a society that is pleasing for everybody, then we need to clean up the music we listen to, the television we watch, the video games we play, the language we use, and the clothes we wear. And that doesn't even scratch the surface of being politically correct either. Let the Native Americans be free to voice their concerns about this matter. Let the rest of us worry about cleaning ourselves up.

Native Americans as a whole? That's asking a bit much, is it not? I can't think of a single issue that any group AS A WHOLE would agree upon. Even us Warpathians, we disagree on Coach Gibbs, Carlos Rogers' potential, should Lavar Arrington come back, what we should do with the 6th pick, and The Danny.

I agree with your sentiment, that the impetus should come from the Native American population, but hasn't that been reached? Who started this process? Seems it was started by the American Indian Movement! So since your condition has been met, do you now support changing the name?

[dmek25]

do we have to rehash this every off season? you can find something offensive in everything, if you look hard enough.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by memphisskin

Native Americans as a whole? That's asking a bit much, is it not? I can't think of a single issue that any group AS A WHOLE would agree upon. Even us Warpathians, we disagree on Coach Gibbs, Carlos Rogers' potential, should Lavar Arrington come back, what we should do with the 6th pick, and The Danny.

I agree with your sentiment, that the impetus should come from the Native American population, but hasn't that been reached? Who started this process? Seems it was started by the American Indian Movement! So since your condition has been met, do you now support changing the name?

I'm done with this issue. Why are you asking me questions about it? I will answer one thing you said and I don't want to see this thread again until next off-season, but in order for my condition to be met, it would have to involve the race as a whole, or at least the majority. I thought I made that clear in my previous post, but apparently I didn't. Hope that clears up somethings. Continue beating the dead horse all you like.

[Hog1]

Please remove me from the dead horse beating list as well. My people as a whole consider the beating of dead horses, and the discussion of same to be disrespectful to horses in general, both living and deceased.
Additionally, it should be determined by the entire population, not by any sub-species (those Shetlands will go for anything) what is, and is not inflammatory, and defamitory to the Horseing community in general.
-Chief Crazy Horse

[Toast20622]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Sheriff:

When much of this controversy started about 8-10 years ago, I suggested to some colleagues that there was a simple solution to the problem:


Keep the name Redskins.

Change the logo on the helmet to a potato.


No one liked the idea then; I doubt lots of folks would like it now. But it might stop the focus on the team name and allow people to focus on the team performance - - which is a lot more important to me.

You'd be offending the people in Idaho then!!