Predict RGIII's next team

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Even I'm looking forward to Griffin being released. The anti-Griffin bias was tiresome.

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A lot like the anti-Jim Zorn bias. Time to move on.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Even I'm looking forward to Griffin being released. The anti-Griffin bias was tiresome.

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Im trying to understand your post. I mean I get the first part, u really like Griff and think he can still play etc, but what is the anti Griff bias? It comes across like he has been unfairly treated and hated on for no reason? I can only speak for myself, but I think alot of others view it similarly. He was great - outstanding - the future in 2012 and everyone loved him. He got hurt. He came back - maybe too soon. He than had SEVERAL chances to prove himself over the better part of two years and it became painfully obvious that he was only great in an offense that was quickly abolished by defenses around the league catching on and shutting it down. See Kaep and Russel Wilson. Only Wilson proved that he too could adapt like defenses did and still be a top qb in this league. Kaep not so much. Griff not at all. Griffs inability to adapt culminated in the preseason game against Detroit when he was just God awful in every aspect of NFL quarterbacking. All the things Schneed just mentioned. So... What is the "bias" you are referring to? Unless it is bias against quarterbacks that cannot play the position?
Do you believe that he can really thrive in this league somewhere else without being able to read blitzes, get rid of the ball, see the field, etc etc?

Edit: want to add that I cannot imagine there is a single true Skins fan that did not want Griff to be RG-3 again and see him succeed for obvious reasons. Especially before we knew what we had in Cousins. It is sad what happened to Griff. Im not the only one with his jersey growing old in my closet. Why on earth would it be personal, or wished for, or welcomed? We are extremely lucky we have KC because if we didnt this franchise would have been up the creek to Hell after Griffs fall from grace.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

A lot like the anti-Jim Zorn bias. Time to move on.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Even I'm looking forward to Griffin being released. The anti-Griffin bias was tiresome.

Oh, just stop with the bullshit. The pro-Griffin bias is every bit as tiresome.

Quote me all the stats you want. I saw what I saw and what I saw weren't good.

Just take your RGIII Fathead poster and find a quiet room together.



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[30gut]

^^^Exactly....yawns...tiresome.

Draft, defense, FA normal conversation whatever but dare not to think Griffin sucks? Unacceptable the stats be damned! And positing a non-Griffin sucks position will likely be met with personal attacks.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by punch it in

but what is the anti Griff bias?

See post above.

He than had SEVERAL chances to prove himself over the better part of two years and it became painfully obvious that he was only great in an offense that was quickly abolished by defenses around the league catching on and shutting it down.

Not sure what you mean here with several chances to prove himself. Griffin had 2 productive years with Shanahan. Some like to say his 2013 was bad but that's not the reality, but again damn the stats right? And for the sake of comparison in 2013 Kirk was terrible.

Griffin's chance to "prove" himself was in 2014 when a Jay became HC. And that chance amounted to 5 games. Then Griffin was benched.

The "offense" that you say was abolished is very much alive and well in the #1Panthers, #5 Seattle, #9 KC, #12 Bills and more teams then ever show read-option or zone-read looks.

Griff not at all. Griffs inability to adapt culminated in the preseason game against Detroit when he was just God awful in every aspect of NFL quarterbacking.

If your intent is to have an actual discussion its impossible to have a discussion based on hyperbole. When you say Griffin can't read defenses its obviously an exaggeration. And pointing to a preseason game, even if you think it was bad is an odd referendum against a players entire body of work. I could post breakdowns from various sources that would say that the OL gave him no chance that game. But, I know it will only push us further down the rabbit and I'm the 'bad guy' because I don't agree that Griffin "God awful in every aspect of NFL quarterbacking".

Do you believe that he can really thrive in this league somewhere else

I don't agree that he can't do the above.

[That Guy]

saying griffin can't read defenses is not an exaggeration. look at how much he gets sacked. look at how long he holds the ball. his stats aren't good there, you're just being extremely selective with your memory/analysis. look at the sacks/snap once kirk took over... same line, but magically not terrible with kirk.

if you watch his tape and think he's a great player (2013-2014-2015), then that really brings into question your credibility regarding anything football related. It's painfully obvious he hasn't improved in doing that things he needs to do to get better. he didn't run a pro style offense in college, and he hasn't run one effectively in the NFL as of yet. he decided he didn't want to do the thing he was good at (zone read) and the result speak for themselves. he has the arm, he has the accuracy, he doesn't have pocket presence, he doesn't set protections well, and he doesn't read defenses well. he simply doesn't make those timing throws we see kirk hitting every game, and our playoff chances with him last year would have been hovering right around 0%.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by That Guy

saying griffin can't read defenses is not an exaggeration. look at how much he gets sacked. look at how long he holds the ball. his stats aren't good there, you're just being extremely selective with your memory/analysis. look at the sacks/snap once kirk took over... same line, but magically not terrible with kirk.

Even Cooley admits that Griffin can read defenses. I could post breakdowns from Griffin going through his progressions from 2014. Obviously its an exaggeration.

Does Griffin hold the ball too long? Absolutely. Did he take more sacks? Yup.
Not all QBs have a quick throw style. Rothlisberher, Cam, Russell, Rodgers all hold the ball. And learning a pure rhythm drop back passing offense is going to have ups and downs, there will be sacks.

The selectivity in Griffin's production comes from the perception of his 2014 "season". He had 2 bad games before being benched. Go back and look if you doubt it.

if you watch his tape and think he's a great player (2013-2014-2015), then that really brings into question your credibility regarding anything football related.

Yet, you know I haven't said he's a great player based off 2013-2014.

...he decided he didn't want to do the thing he was good at (zone read) and the result speak for themselves.

Ultimately this is where the Griffin discussions ends up. And I find it odd how this narrative has been accepted as fact. The 1st point of fact is that Griffin did indeed execute read-option in 2013. Also the notion that Mike Shanahan, total control Mike Shanahan was dictated to in terms of offense by Griffin I find very, very amusing.

His 1st year without read-option was with Jay Gruden in 2014, and he was given 5 games before being benched. Griffin's 2014 stats aren't the horrow show most claim, Kirk the much more experienced rhythm drop back passer had as many bad games (or worse) then Griffin. Jay chose to develop Kirk over Griffin, and thankfully that decision worked out.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by 30gut

See post above.







Not sure what you mean here with several chances to prove himself. Griffin had 2 productive years with Shanahan. Some like to say his 2013 was bad but that's not the reality, but again damn the stats right? And for the sake of comparison in 2013 Kirk was terrible.



Griffin's chance to "prove" himself was in 2014 when a Jay became HC. And that chance amounted to 5 games. Then Griffin was benched.



The "offense" that you say was abolished is very much alive and well in the #1Panthers, #5 Seattle, #9 KC, #12 Bills and more teams then ever show read-option or zone-read looks.







If your intent is to have an actual discussion its impossible to have a discussion based on hyperbole. When you say Griffin can't read defenses its obviously an exaggeration. And pointing to a preseason game, even if you think it was bad is an odd referendum against a players entire body of work. I could post breakdowns from various sources that would say that the OL gave him no chance that game. But, I know it will only push us further down the rabbit and I'm the 'bad guy' because I don't agree that Griffin "God awful in every aspect of NFL quarterbacking".

His play in 2013 was not good. Not good at all. What stats will never tell you is that when Griff checked down and threw a short pass that went for 11 that there was a wide open guy streaking down the middle of the field who would have scored. All you see three years later is a completion for 11 yards. That kind of shit happened all the time. J knew it. Thats why Griff lost his job. You know it too because u watched the games (i think). There is just no way you come out and say it now. You are too stubborn. Lol. If Griff had a "productive" year in 2013 as you put it than Cousins just had a hall of fame year......

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 30gut

^^^Exactly....yawns...tiresome.

Draft, defense, FA normal conversation whatever but dare not to think Griffin sucks? Unacceptable the stats be damned! And positing a non-Griffin sucks position will likely be met with personal attacks.

It's fine to think Griffin doesn't suck. I don't think he is god awful at everything QB related. You can post your breakdowns and, believe me, I could post counters from credible sources. However, that discussion is long done. There are plenty of credible, factually/statistically supportable reasons for saying RGIII is simply not likely to succeed as an NFL QB. Do I hope he does? Yes. Based on the data, the breakdowns I've read, and what I have seen with my own eyes, do I believe he will? Nope. Hope he proves me wrong.

You're refusal to acknowledge his significant flaws and lack of progression is truly, truly tiresome. You think he doesn't suck? Great. You're entitled to that opinion. You have made the same points for the last year, quoting the same stats, and played the martyr when people say "You're wrong."


Done. Just. Done.

[punch it in]

30-gut I just ask that after Griff bounces around the league for 2-3 years, and never latches on to another team because no matter what kind of offense they run he cannot play QB, that you simply say "im sorry everyone ".

[Hog1]

Does the name......Patrick....Ramsey bring anything to mind?

[bigant]

the houston texans, they need a QB and his home state ...

[30gut]

Originally Posted by punch it in

His play in 2013 was not good. Not good at all. What stats will never tell ...

Well there you have it. No point in posting the stats or showing how Griffin's 2013 was better then most of Flacco's season or Eli 1st 3ish season etc..... Once we throw out the stats we are free to explain/make any conclusion we like. But one quick point of fact is that in 2013 the best unit on the team was the Griffin lead offense. Defense was near league worst. The special teams was without exaggeration historically bad.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Well there you have it. No point in posting the stats or showing how Griffin's 2013 was better then most of Flacco's season or Eli 1st 3ish season etc..... Once we throw out the stats we are free to explain/make any conclusion we like. But one quick point of fact is that in 2013 the best unit on the team was the Griffin lead offense. Defense was near league worst. The special teams was without exaggeration historically bad.

Are you actually quoting part of my post to make your answers look better? Now you are just trolling. Once again in two years when Griff is out of the nfl for good you can apologize. Im done for good with this conversation. The floor is yours. Tell us why he is great and how I am dismissing you.....cant wait.