Should Brunell be replaced? (merged)

[Master4Caster]

You don't bench your starter after one bad game.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

You might want to check that, because I don't think everyone felt that way.

Offiss is saying at this point in their careers, Ramsey is the better QB. I'm saying based on what? Their on field performances? How? Brunell has clearly put up better numbers than Ramsey and he is clearly the more proven QB. That's not even debateable. If you compare what they've done on the field, I don't see how anyone can say Patrick Ramsey is a better QB than Mark Brunell, unless you're just biased. In that case, fine, but at least admit it.

Youre right, I was the lone descenter.

How can anyone compare MB and PR's careers? PR actually has to play more than a few games to have a career.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'll I'm asking for is a logical rationale based on some sort of facts as to how Ramsey is a better QB than Brunell.

Let me start by saying I'm no longer a Ramsey-devotee - I don't think Brunell is the next Peyton Manning, but he manages to get the job done more often than not.

I think what people like about Ramsey is the spark of "brilliance" he would show at times. Most games Ramsey would have a couple of beautiful, laser-like passes drilling a receiver on a post or something. The reason fans love this is because it reminds us of the highlight reels of Manning or Kurt Warner (in his prime.) People love watching this and it gets everyone excited - the explosiveness is what the fans remember.

Unfortunately people forget that Ramsey would just as often toss the ball to the other team, cough it up when he got hit, and was generally as nimble as a tank. Ramsey could be absolutely fantastic one play, and utterly atrocious the next. I think alot of people tend to focus on those brilliant moments and forget the bad for some reason.

Brunell on the other hand is pretty unexciting as a QB. He dumps it off underneath alot, plays it safe and tosses it away, and only on occasion goes deep. He's a much more safe, efficient QB than he is exciting or prone to lighting up the highlight reel.

I think Ramsey is definitely not the answer - he's too inconsistent. Brunell COULD work, it doesn't take a Manning to get to the Super Bowl. The Bucs did it with Brad Johnson playing mistake-free football. Ravens did the same thing. Heck, Minnesota and Chicago both currently have QBs who do little more than "not screw up" and they had amazing sucess recently.

The QB isn't the team in one position - obviously the ideal situation is someone like Manning, electrifying, smart and efficient. Occasionally you have to take the cards your dealt though, as a Peyton Manning isn't easy to find.

The final result is that there are a variety of ways to win a championship, there's no magic bullet or solution at the QB position.

Just my take on Ramsey, having been a strong supporter of his for a while but having come to my senses recently.

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by Master4Caster

You don't bench your starter after one bad game.

Tell that to Ramsey ...and he wasn't even having a bad game...and Brunell has had a few bad games this year several last year and really mostly commonly average games

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by irish

Everybody on this site thought PR was the best QB back in Sept.

I still firmly belive he still is....

[irish]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

Tell that to Ramsey ...and he wasn't even having a bad game...and Brunell has had a few bad games this year several last year and really mostly commonly average games

For whatever reason JG never had confidence in PR (in spite of what he said to the public) and for whatever reason he has confidence in MB thats why he lets MB keep playing even when he has bad games. Its all about confidence.

[Riggo44]

Enough allready!! Brunell is the MAN for the rest of the season. Like he should be! He is the best Q.B on the team. Get over it!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

Tell that to Ramsey ...and he wasn't even having a bad game...and Brunell has had a few bad games this year several last year and really mostly commonly average games

Dude he had 2 fumbles and an INT in half a game of work, not a bad game? a 49 QB rating?

Funny how your bring up last year for Brunell, but only mention this year for Ramsey.

As for Brunell he's posted a QB rating of 90 or better 6 times this year. 3 of those were over 100. Unless you're Payton Manning, those are better than commonly average games.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I'll say it again, "Brunell should remain the starter until we are 100% out of the playoff hunt." Moreover, he's played well this season. But, it is disconcerting that he hasn't thrown for over 200 yards in the last four games and hasn't thrown for over 250 yards in the last 8 games. While we don't have to have Peyton Manning numbers withour passing attack, it would sure make our running game look better if we had a decent passing offense.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by irish

Everybody on this site thought PR was the best QB back in Sept.

Incorrect statement. If you had stated prior to preseason, that would be true. However, seeing both quarterbacks' performances in preseason, I came to the conclusion that Mark Brunell should be starting and not Ramsey.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

Tell that to Ramsey ...and he wasn't even having a bad game...and Brunell has had a few bad games this year several last year and really mostly commonly average games

Please go back and watch that game again.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

You might want to check that, because I don't think everyone felt that way.

Offiss is saying at this point in their careers, Ramsey is the better QB. I'm saying based on what? Their on field performances? How? Brunell has clearly put up better numbers than Ramsey and he is clearly the more proven QB. That's not even debateable. If you compare what they've done on the field, I don't see how anyone can say Patrick Ramsey is a better QB than Mark Brunell, unless you're just biased. In that case, fine, but at least admit it.

That is my opinion, although I do base a lot of that on what I saw last season when both played under the same conditions, where Ramsey clearly outplayed the seasoned veteran in Brunell, obviously we have nothing to base it on this season as Ramsey hasen't been given a chance to show whether or not he can play in this offense.

But in all do respect Matty, you were on the Ramsey bandwagon last season as well, and I wonder how you based your conclusion last season, as well as through training camp, and up until Gibbs decieded to change QB's?


In all likelyhood we will mis the playoff's for the second year in a row, would anyone be willing to say if Gibbs came out and said when he first took over that we are trading for Brunell, and we will be out of the playoffs for the first 2 years of his tenure, would then support the trade for Brunell? I doubt it, I believe most would say if this is a 3 year project then allow Patrick to play and develope and see where we are at the end of the first year, because Brunell will be over the hill by the time we are a playoff team, and Ramsey if he is the goods will be in his prime, instead we have an ageing QB who again has us looking for a lot of help to squeek into the playoffs.

If some want to argue that regardless Brunell would have outplayed Ramsey? OK, but we will never really know because he wasen't given a legitamate chance to prove otherwise, now we are 2 years down the road, Brunell's on his way out, and we still don't really know for sure what we have in Ramsey, seems like a major waste of time, and money, but that's just my opinion.

[irish]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Incorrect statement. If you had stated prior to preseason, that would be true. However, seeing both quarterbacks' performances in preseason, I came to the conclusion that Mark Brunell should be starting and not Ramsey.

I predicted in the preseason that PR would not be the starter in week 4 and was incorrect by 3 games. Everyone told me I was nuts because Gibbs said PR was his man.

There is no way the team will or should change QBs.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

I predicted in the preseason that PR would not be the starter in week 4 and was incorrect by 3 games. Everyone told me I was nuts because Gibbs said PR was his man.

There is no way the team will or should change QBs.

I think you're talking about this thread Yours is post #36. Yeah you called it, but I don't see that anyone even responded to your post, let alone said you were nuts.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by irish

I predicted in the preseason that PR would not be the starter in week 4 and was incorrect by 3 games. Everyone told me I was nuts because Gibbs said PR was his man.

There is no way the team will or should change QBs.

Well, one throws out enough predictions, they'll eventually get one or two right. If I were to predict how the quarterback situation is going to turn out in the near future, it will probably be us trading Ramsey (hopefully to help out on the defensive line) and getting a decent seasoned veteran to be #2. I don't suspect Jason Campbell to be thrown into the #2 position in his second year under Gibbs. For some reason, I see us getting Kurt Warner to be the #2 qb, because he has playoff and Super Bowl experience, and he probably wouldn't be terribly expensive at this point. Gibbs and his coaching staff likes to bring his young quarterbacks along slowly, which is fine by me as long as the finished product is everything we hope them to be.

Concerning the argument with Brunell and Ramsey (which is going to turn into the never ending argument like the Iraqi war,) I'm not sure why people are making such a big issue about it. Those who want to burn Brunell at the stake want to avoid the fact that we have two starting receivers out of the lineup. If we throw Ramsey in there, then people are going to say that Ramsey wasn't given a far shot because he only has one receiver to throw to.

Fans have no confidence in this franchise anymore. Most find joy in looking for things to be upset about. They ignore the fact that we're 7-6 and in the hunt for the playoffs. That is alot more than what we have had in the past 13 years, except for 1999.