Redskins Deny Bryant Johnson Visit Scheduled

[SC Skins Fan]

Any chance Bryant Johnson is trying to use the Skins as leverage to squeeze out a few more dollars from the Bills? We still haven't had a confirmed visit by the Skins (though lack of information wouldn't really be a new thing).

[KLHJ2]

I agree with not overpaying for a FA WR. There are a few solid WR's in the draft that are going to be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Mike Mayock believes, and I agree that there are no 1st round WR's available this year. Fortunately for us, we can get a good developmental guy that can be inserted into the number 2 spot when we go 3 wide. In our 2 WR packages we have the option of keeping ARE in the number 2 slot or putting Reche there if we get him resigned.

I concur that Moss is a solid number one as long as a veteran QB is throwing to him. Our offense is going to go as Jason Campbell does. If Jason struggles, then the team will struggle, regardless of who is playing the WR positions. Case and point, Randy Moss in Oakland VS him in NE. In no way am I saying that our recievers are Randy Moss, but I am saying that the QB can make or break recievers. Sadly the reverse is also true, however I do not feel that our guys can hurt Campbell as much as Campbell may potentially hurt them.

I love Campbell and I want to see him develop, but right now he is light years away; and a new offensive system isn't helping matters much.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by angryssg

I agree with not overpaying for a FA WR. There are a few solid WR's in the draft that are going to be available in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Mike Mayock believes, and I agree that there are no 1st round WR's available this year. Fortunately for us, we can get a good developmental guy that can be inserted into the number 2 spot when we go 3 wide. In our 2 WR packages we have the option of keeping ARE in the number 2 slot or putting Reche there if we get him resigned.

I concur that Moss is a solid number one as long as a veteran QB is throwing to him. Our offense is going to go as Jason Campbell does. If Jason struggles, then the team will struggle, regardless of who is playing the WR positions. Case and point, Randy Moss in Oakland VS him in NE. In no way am I saying that our recievers are Randy Moss, but I am saying that the QB can make or break recievers. Sadly the reverse is also true, however I do not feel that our guys can hurt Campbell as much as Campbell may potentially hurt them.

I love Campbell and I want to see him develop, but right now he is light years away; and a new offensive system isn't helping matters much.

Light years away? Seriously? I agree that a new offense isn't a good thing for him, but I don't see "light years away."

To your point about Santana Moss and Jason Campbell. Admittedly, Campbell missed him on some deep shots early in the year, but Moss was injured in the Giants game week 3, he played horribly when he came back against Green Bay (a game that Jason played well in and receivers dropped multiple passes), and then had some OK games along with the 121 yard game in Dallas.

Yes, Moss played well at the end of the year (though he had exactly 1 100 yard game with Campbell and exactly 1 100 yard game with Collins), but that was also the first time he was fully healthy since the beginning of the season (in those games he had 89 yards against Philly and 82 yard against NYG).

I think if you fairly evaluate Campbell's performance last year, especially that three game stretch from Philadelphia to Tampa (Buffalo was a bad situation and he was hurt against Chicago) you see a guy on the verge not a guy who is "light years" away. Maybe you didn't mean to imply such a huge gap, but your language certainly suggests that he is years away from being a decent QB and that he somehow held back Moss (rather than Moss's injuries) last year.

[MTK]

If JC is light years away we're in big trouble.

With 20 starts under his belt he'd better be pretty close to turning the corner.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Light years away? Seriously? I agree that a new offense isn't a good thing for him, but I don't see "light years away."

To your point about Santana Moss and Jason Campbell. Admittedly, Campbell missed him on some deep shots early in the year, but Moss was injured in the Giants game week 3, he played horribly when he came back against Green Bay (a game that Jason played well in and receivers dropped multiple passes), and then had some OK games along with the 121 yard game in Dallas.

Yes, Moss played well at the end of the year (though he had exactly 1 100 yard game with Campbell and exactly 1 100 yard game with Collins), but that was also the first time he was fully healthy since the beginning of the season (in those games he had 89 yards against Philly and 82 yard against NYG).

I think if you fairly evaluate Campbell's performance last year, especially that three game stretch from Philadelphia to Tampa (Buffalo was a bad situation and he was hurt against Chicago) you see a guy on the verge not a guy who is "light years" away. Maybe you didn't mean to imply such a huge gap, but your language certainly suggests that he is years away from being a decent QB and that he somehow held back Moss (rather than Moss's injuries) last year.

He brought up his completion percentage to 60%, but he stiil threw 12 TD's and 11 INT's. His QB rating was only 77. He needs to get through his progressions quicker, get rid of the ball quicker, deliver the deep ball more accurately, stop forcing the ball in the redzone and learn a new offense this offseason. That is a task, hence the words "light years away". It was a bit of an exaggeration, but so were the words "on the verge" IMO. How about we compromise and say "still developing with promise".

Moss was injured a couple of times and had the worst game of his life @ Green Bay. However, Todd Collins, a career backup had over a 100 QB rating through 4 games with the same corps of WR's. Todd Collins by no means has all of the physical tools that Campbell does, but he is more seasoned. Collins is nowhere near being one of the better QB's in the league, but right now he has a leg up on our beloved Campbell.

The bottom line is I want Campbell to succeed and be of the same caliber as Peyton, Rothlisberger, McNabb or Brady. Simply put it is going to take more time.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by angryssg

He brought up his completion percentage to 60%, but he stiil threw 12 TD's and 11 INT's. His QB rating was only 77. He needs to get through his progressions quicker, get rid of the ball quicker, deliver the deep ball more accurately, stop forcing the ball in the redzone and learn a new offense this offseason. That is a task, hence the words "light years away". It was a bit of an exaggeration, but so were the words "on the verge" IMO. How about we compromise and say "still developing with promise".

Moss was injured a couple of times and had the worst game of his life @ Green Bay. However, Todd Collins, a career backup had over a 100 QB rating through 4 games with the same corps of WR's. Todd Collins by no means has all of the physical tools that Campbell does, but he is more seasoned. Collins is nowhere near being one of the better QB's in the league, but right now he has a leg up on our beloved Campbell.

The bottom line is I want Campbell to succeed and be of the same caliber as Peyton, Rothlisberger, McNabb or Brady. Simply put it is going to take more time.

Good points, but I still think if you look at the three game stretch from Philly to TB you see a QB really close to being very good. You will likely bring up the costly INTs at Dallas and at Tampa that ended those games, but that is the hurdle he needs to cross. Winning games in the fourth quarter is the toughest thing to do and one of the last real progressions for NFL QBs. We saw what happened to Todd Collins when the ball was in his hand and he had to go win a game sans a running game during the Playoffs. He ended up looking a lot like Campbell did. Campbell has some development left, certainly, but I think you aren't really giving him enough credit for the development he showed from 2006 to 2007 and then during the course of 2007. I am concerned about the new offense (you saw how Phillip Rivers struggled this year, even though the offense was more or less the same but with Norv calling the plays). I guess we are actually pretty close in our opinions, but with a different tone to similar points.

Campbell

Philly 23-34, 67.6%, 215 yards, 3 tds, 0 ints
Dallas 33-54, 61.1%, 348 yards, 2 tds, 1 int
Tampa 30-49, 61.2%, 301 yards, 1 td, 2 ints

86-137, 62.7%, 864 yards, 6 tds, 3 ints

Collins

NYG 8-25, 32%, 166 yards, 0 tds, 0 ints
Min 22-29, 75.9%, 254 yards, 2 tds, 0 ints
Dal 22-31, 71.0%, 244 yards, 1 td, 0 ints

52-85, 61.2%, 664 yards, 3 tds, 0 ints

Obviously the game against the Giants was very windy and difficult conditions. If I substituted the Seattle game the numbers look like:

73-110, 66.4%, 764, 5 tds, 2 ints

I'm not detracting from what Collins was able to do, but I think by comparing Collins performance to Campbells and saying it demonstrates the huge progress that still remains for Jason, you aren't giving proper credit to what Jason was doing in the three games prior to his injury (not counting Buffalo, because obviously that was a very unique situation). You also don't consider how much better the defense performed at the end of the year and the fact that Collins was never put in a position where he had to go out in the fourth quarter and win a game (or try to carry a team that was unable to run the football).

Personally, I think Jason demonstrated that he is closer than you suggest, but obviously the new offense will be a great challenge.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Good points, but I still think if you look at the three game stretch from Philly to TB you see a QB really close to being very good. You will likely bring up the costly INTs at Dallas and at Tampa that ended those games, but that is the hurdle he needs to cross. Winning games in the fourth quarter is the toughest thing to do and one of the last real progressions for NFL QBs. We saw what happened to Todd Collins when the ball was in his hand and he had to go win a game sans a running game during the Playoffs. He ended up looking a lot like Campbell did. Campbell has some development left, certainly, but I think you aren't really giving him enough credit for the development he showed from 2006 to 2007 and then during the course of 2007. I am concerned about the new offense (you saw how Phillip Rivers struggled this year, even though the offense was more or less the same but with Norv calling the plays). I guess we are actually pretty close in our opinions, but with a different tone to similar points.

Campbell

Philly 23-34, 67.6%, 215 yards, 3 tds, 0 ints
Dallas 33-54, 61.1%, 348 yards, 2 tds, 1 int
Tampa 30-49, 61.2%, 301 yards, 1 td, 2 ints

86-137, 62.7%, 864 yards, 6 tds, 3 ints

Collins

NYG 8-25, 32%, 166 yards, 0 tds, 0 ints
Min 22-29, 75.9%, 254 yards, 2 tds, 0 ints
Dal 22-31, 71.0%, 244 yards, 1 td, 0 ints

52-85, 61.2%, 664 yards, 3 tds, 0 ints

Obviously the game against the Giants was very windy and difficult conditions. If I substituted the Seattle game the numbers look like:

73-110, 66.4%, 764, 5 tds, 2 ints

I'm not detracting from what Collins was able to do, but I think by comparing Collins performance to Campbells and saying it demonstrates the huge progress that still remains for Jason, you aren't giving proper credit to what Jason was doing in the three games prior to his injury (not counting Buffalo, because obviously that was a very unique situation). You also don't consider how much better the defense performed at the end of the year and the fact that Collins was never put in a position where he had to go out in the fourth quarter and win a game (or try to carry a team that was unable to run the football).

Personally, I think Jason demonstrated that he is closer than you suggest, but obviously the new offense will be a great challenge.

Points taken, Campbell was in more games needing a comeback win. But, what were Campbell's stats in games that didn't require a come from behind attempt.That might tell the true story.
Campbell did make strides from 06 to 07 and he needs to do just as much if not more from 07 to 08.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

One of the most powerful attributes for a QB is the ability to create his own elite recievers. If Zorn is able to get as much out of JC as he was able to get out of Matt Hasselback then it won't really matter whos out there at WR. Brady went without a decent Recieving threat for most of his career. And think, while Wes Welker is a good receiver, do you think he gets the same kind of prouduction if he stays in Miami?

Randy Moss was practically useless in Oakland without a top rated passer giving him the ball.

Anthony Gonzalez had a pretty good rookie campagin, but what do you think happens to him if he gets drafted by Atlanta, Carolina, or KC?

David Patten got 792 yards last year. You think that Colston and Henderson develop into anything if they go to a team with mediocre QB play?

There will always be Receivers that make plays no matter who the QB is. You can look at guys like Chad Johnson, Steve Smith, A. Boldin, and L. Fitgerald and know that they could put up a 1,000+ yards even if a fan that won a halftime ticket stub contest was throwing to them. Theres a good chance that all of the guys that we'll have a chance to acquire in the next two won't be that kind of player, however if we develop Jason Campbell and give him the protection he needs up front (B. Albert plug) then it won't matter if we sign Johnson or Hacket, the offense will still be able to produce.

Sure it can be done without an elite WR but I think we would all agree that having a great WR would make it easier for JC. See Romo in Dallas as an example. And since JC developing is the top priority for the franchise we should do everything to make that development as smooth as possible.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Can we afford to wait a year and make a push in 2009 for a free agent like TJ Houshmandzadeh or Marques Colston?

I would be willing to wait for those guys but the way this free agency is going the past couple years with average players great huge deals what would a player of TJ's caliber get on an open market? I think he could get about 30 mil gaurenteed based on what some of these other players are getting. And thats if he even gets to free agency...with the higher salary cap teams always seem to have the cap room to tag their better players or sign them to new deals before they reach free agency. So while I would wait I just don't think you can count on really good players making it to free agency anymore.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by angryssg

Points taken, Campbell was in more games needing a comeback win. But, what were Campbell's stats in games that didn't require a come from behind attempt.That might tell the true story.
Campbell did make strides from 06 to 07 and he needs to do just as much if not more from 07 to 08.

Good points by you and SC both in this thread. Since no one asked for my imput, here it is:

IMO, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to seperate games from other games based on perceived circumstance. It's hard enough to get enough of a sample using all the games we have. So looking at the whole picture, Campbell made significant strides, as expected from his first year as a starter.

It's probably going to take ten to twenty more starts before Campbell has enough experience to step into the top ten in the game. However, if he can just produce at last year's level for this season, the Redskins are totally capable of winning games.

Collins played very well over 4 and a half games for us, but that's all it was. He's a good backup, but once teams study the tape on his tendencies, he won't be producing at a higher level than Campbell would be.

We're going to have to be patient with JC. He's "still a year away" (from being elite), but that doesn't mean he won't be good in the short term.

[skinsfan242]

The way I see it is that Campbell played well but our playcalling was not ideal. I think Saunders got in a zone late in the season. The quick hitters and the running pays had defenses off balance. Earlier in the season it was lets try to run every play and then pass. It wasn't working. Campbell made some great plays and was improving but I think the team hit its stride and everything was clicking at the end of the year. I think Campbell would have had the same results as Collins given the same opportunity. We saw what can happen when we are playing well. I think Gibbs had a knack for getting his players to play the best in December.

Campbell is going to do realyl well this season and I hope Anthony Mix helps him out. I think the sky is the limit for both of them.

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by jdlea

So there were 3? Moss and Chambers are not great receivers.

Moss could be if he ever stays healthy.

Chambers is under 30 and has been to a Pro Bowl, he's suffered down in Miami the last few seasons. I see big things for him in San Diego the next few years... Hall of Famer.... no ... Few more Pro Bowls... likely.

Santana Moss is under 30 as well....
"His 2005 season with the Redskins was the best in his professional career, with 84 receptions for 1,483 yards(second highest in the nfl that year, behind only Steve Smith of the Carolina Panthers), setting a new Redskins single-season receiving record. In 2005, Moss also was selected to his first NFL Pro Bowl. Moss recorded 18 rushing yards and 3 catches for 39 receiving yards at the Pro Bowl. Also, this amazing year solidified Moss as an elite receiver and a deep threat in the NFL."

While he's been injured during his career often he proved he could be an elite WR in this league when an offense is firing on all cylinders. While he's prob not going to be a HOF'er he most likely will go to a few more Pro Bowls. By my count that could be 5 multiple pro bowl wide recievers coming out of that draft = 5 great WR's coming out of that draft.

[DGreene28]

All we need is big WR that JC can look to in the Red Zone and on 3rd down not named Cooley. Moss and Randle El just aren't the kind of options a big 6'5" athletic WR are when the field gets smaller.

If we get this years Dwayne Bowe in the draft then we will be well on our way to being a top 5 offense with JC leading the way.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

I just read on Redskins.com that he doesnt have a visit sent.

[SmootSmack]

I think both sides have expressed interest but nothing "official" was set. My gut feeling is that he liked Buffalo and wants to play there (Maybe he doesn't want the pressure of playing near home?).