Suisham = Momentum Killer

sandtrapjack · 01-07-2008, 12:09 PM

Ok well I can see that there is no way I can convince you guys about Suisham. So we can agree to disagree on that one. I was merely trying to point out that I watched the Redskins and Suisham all year as well and he appears to be the same PK we had in Dallas when were deep in the quagmire of our kicking woes. But I admire your patience with him.

To answer your question SmootSmack, Suisham choked early in San Francisco, he got released in training camp.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 01-07-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

Ok well I can see that there is no way I can convince you guys about Suisham. So we can agree to disagree on that one. I was merely trying to point out that I watched the Redskins and Suisham all year as well and he appears to be the same PK we had in Dallas when were deep in the quagmire of our kicking woes. But I admire your patience with him.

To answer your question SmootSmack, Suisham choked early in San Francisco, he got released in training camp.

As MattyK pointed out, Suisham made 83% of his kicks. Nick Folk, a Pro Bowler, made 83% of his kicks. Suisham also made 3 more FGs than Folk. Still think Suisham is a bum?

mheisig · 01-07-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

As MattyK pointed out, Suisham made 83% of his kicks. Nick Folk, a Pro Bowler, made 83% of his kicks. Suisham also made 3 more FGs than Folk. Still think Suisham is a bum?

To be fair, the real difference is that Folk made 83.87% of his field goals, whereas Suisham made a mere 82.85%

Clearly Folk is 1.02% better than Suisham and far more deserving of the Pro Bowl nomination.

firstdown · 01-07-2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

Ok well I can see that there is no way I can convince you guys about Suisham. So we can agree to disagree on that one. I was merely trying to point out that I watched the Redskins and Suisham all year as well and he appears to be the same PK we had in Dallas when were deep in the quagmire of our kicking woes. But I admire your patience with him.

To answer your question SmootSmack, Suisham choked early in San Francisco, he got released in training camp.

I have to call you on this one. SS played in 6 game for Dallas 3 in 05 and 3 in 06. He had a grand total of 6 kicks and made 4 of them. The two he missed were one between 30-39 and one between 40-49 so not much there to look at and we do not know the circumstances of the kicks. He does not have any recorded kicks for the 49's. If I'm correct didn't he boot that kick for us after ST recovered that blocked FG last year for us to beat Dallas?

htownskinfan · 01-08-2008, 08:44 AM

If I'm correct didn't he boot that kick for us after ST recovered that blocked FG last year for us to beat Dallas?[/QUOTE]

no that wasnt him

qb1717 · 01-08-2008, 10:13 AM

It has nothing to do with you being a Dallas fan. It has to do with facts and statitistics - nothing else. If I didn't know the facts, I would think this guy was 17 - 35 instead of 29 - 35 and blew every pressure kick he had this season. Well, this is not the facts. He blew one meaningful kick this year. Now, unfortunately it was in a playoff game and did affect momentum - but the same could be said for numerous other players in the game.
With your reasoning - are you going on the Titans forums and calling Bironis a choker and he should be released. He missed a 38-yard field goal in the third quarter that could of brought them back - another momentum changer?? Well of course not - he did not play for Dallas at one time.
Have you ever followed the route most of the kickers in the NFL take. They very rarely stick with the first team they play with - there seems to be a learning curve. (Akers, Bironis, Gould and the list goes on and on)
Compare the kicking stats of Folk vs Suisham in the two games they played head to head. Compare the kick off distance and field goals. I do not see any difference. I am not running Folk down - I think he is a decent kicker. But, let's be real - would he be a pro-bowl kicker if he did not play for the first place Dallas Cowboys. He did not have even the second best stats in the NFC. Robbie Gould should have been the Pro-Bowl kicker - he lead the NFC in percentage and kick-off yardage.
We will see how Folk handles the pressure of the playoffs. Of course, if he misses one I'm sure you will be calling for his head. Maybe you can bring Vanderjagt back - after all he has the stats you are looking for - the most accurate kicker in NFL history!!

HOGTIMUS PRIME · 01-08-2008, 10:37 AM

I have no problem with Suisam as our long term kicker, but Frost has to go, is there a bigger choke artist than him at the punting position? Draft that kid from LSU he has a cannon for a leg.

sandtrapjack · 01-08-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qb1717

It has nothing to do with you being a Dallas fan. It has to do with facts and statitistics - nothing else. If I didn't know the facts, I would think this guy was 17 - 35 instead of 29 - 35 and blew every pressure kick he had this season. Well, this is not the facts. He blew one meaningful kick this year. Now, unfortunately it was in a playoff game and did affect momentum - but the same could be said for numerous other players in the game.
With your reasoning - are you going on the Titans forums and calling Bironis a choker and he should be released. He missed a 38-yard field goal in the third quarter that could of brought them back - another momentum changer?? Well of course not - he did not play for Dallas at one time.
Have you ever followed the route most of the kickers in the NFL take. They very rarely stick with the first team they play with - there seems to be a learning curve. (Akers, Bironis, Gould and the list goes on and on)
Compare the kicking stats of Folk vs Suisham in the two games they played head to head. Compare the kick off distance and field goals. I do not see any difference. I am not running Folk down - I think he is a decent kicker. But, let's be real - would he be a pro-bowl kicker if he did not play for the first place Dallas Cowboys. He did not have even the second best stats in the NFC. Robbie Gould should have been the Pro-Bowl kicker - he lead the NFC in percentage and kick-off yardage.
We will see how Folk handles the pressure of the playoffs. Of course, if he misses one I'm sure you will be calling for his head. Maybe you can bring Vanderjagt back - after all he has the stats you are looking for - the most accurate kicker in NFL history!!

If your sole connection to the Pro Bowl and the playoffs is stats, then you are missing much of the game.

A lot of it is situational, and how a player performs in all conditions of play. Is Folk the most stat-happy accurate kicker in the NFL or even the NFC? Nope. But Folk nailed down his Pro-Bowl selection in Monday night game in Buffalo. He hit 2 consectutive 53-yarders to win the game in a pressure cooker situation in front of a nationally televised audience with the game on the line and his teams (at the time) undefeated record on the line. He answered the call. And it was a game-winning kick in what many sportswriters tabbed as the best MNF game in the last decade.

There are a small handful of PK's in the league that could have pulled that off.

Now I know and am willing to accept a ton of crap from you guys if Folk does miss a crucial field goal in the playoffs.

Just as long as you guys are prepared for a healthy dose of "I told ya' so" when he does well.

MTK · 01-07-2008, 12:25 PM

Hey, if 83% and 29 FGs = a kicking quagmire, bring it on. We've seen much, much worse over the years here. We've gone through kicker after kicker including dumping David Akers prematurely.

Redskins_P · 01-07-2008, 12:37 PM

One thing I wanted add....

I think special teams as a whole killed alot of our momentum with all those penalties. Rock kept getting great returns that put us in good field position. Also, the coverage wasn't that great either. Seattle won the field position game.

TheMalcolmConnection · 01-07-2008, 01:32 PM

Just like many of us said before the game, Seattle had to play the game of their lives and we had to play at least "equal" to the past four weeks before that.

Seattle held up it's end of the bargain, we just crapped the bed. It happens and it just so happened it was the playoffs.

qb1717 · 01-07-2008, 02:57 PM

OK, I keep reading about how awful Suisham has been - a choker from this Dallas guy. Now, start talking facts instead of what you think is fact. Your first problem is the San Francisco take. He wasn't even there in the preseason. When released from Dallas he was signed to the practice squad for one week because Joe Nedney was hurt. He did not play AT ALL and was released after the week because Nedney was OK. So, that was a real choke??? Now, in Dallas, he did not even have a chance to kick many field goals - in fact he was originally on the team as a kick-off specialist for Vanderjagt. And in the revolving door that was there at the time - how could any kicker do well? I would say that if Folk had been in that same soap opera with the Parcell's mind games, then his performance may not have been so good either.
Should Suisham have missed - of course not. But, lets look at the whole picture. That was the first pressure kick he missed in Washington. How many games did he actually help Washington win this year?? This was the FIRST game that you could tie him to the loss. The Redskins DID NOT PLAY like they SHOULD have won that game. COULD THEY HAVE - SURE. BUT, how do you hang the inept play for most of the game on the kicker. Oh, and by the way - your boy has not proven himself in playoff competition yet either. Maybe he will shank the ball similar to what he did two weeks ago on a gimme field goal.

sandtrapjack · 01-07-2008, 03:17 PM

Should have know this was going to turn into a Cowboys fan bashing a Redskins kicker. Guess there is no escaping that here.

Was just sharing observations is all. If you are happy with Suisham, well I am happy for you. As I said earlier...we agree to disagree. Why don't we just leave it at that? I for one could not be happier that he is on your roster.

MTK · 01-07-2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

Should have know this was going to turn into a Cowboys fan bashing a Redskins kicker. Guess there is no escaping that here.

Was just sharing observations is all. If you are happy with Suisham, well I am happy for you. As I said earlier...we agree to disagree. Why don't we just leave it at that? I for one could not be happier that he is on your roster.

For your sake I hope Folk nails all his playoff kicks, or we're going to be on you like stink on shit.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 01-07-2008, 03:47 PM

I'm not buying. I personally would prefer to keep both guys unless a proven vet becomes available. Suisham had a pretty good year and so did Frosty. Are either of them playing as well as I would like them to? No, but they're better than our known alternatives.

01-07-2008, 12:09 PM	#1
sandtrapjack The Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,994	Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer Ok well I can see that there is no way I can convince you guys about Suisham. So we can agree to disagree on that one. I was merely trying to point out that I watched the Redskins and Suisham all year as well and he appears to be the same PK we had in Dallas when were deep in the quagmire of our kicking woes. But I admire your patience with him. To answer your question SmootSmack, Suisham choked early in San Francisco, he got released in training camp.

01-08-2008, 08:44 AM	#5
htownskinfan JUST LIVIN Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: houston,tx Age: 63 Posts: 4,929	Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer If I'm correct didn't he boot that kick for us after ST recovered that blocked FG last year for us to beat Dallas?[/QUOTE] no that wasnt him __________________ Make The Redskins Great Again

01-08-2008, 10:13 AM	#6
qb1717 Camp Scrub Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5	Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer It has nothing to do with you being a Dallas fan. It has to do with facts and statitistics - nothing else. If I didn't know the facts, I would think this guy was 17 - 35 instead of 29 - 35 and blew every pressure kick he had this season. Well, this is not the facts. He blew one meaningful kick this year. Now, unfortunately it was in a playoff game and did affect momentum - but the same could be said for numerous other players in the game. With your reasoning - are you going on the Titans forums and calling Bironis a choker and he should be released. He missed a 38-yard field goal in the third quarter that could of brought them back - another momentum changer?? Well of course not - he did not play for Dallas at one time. Have you ever followed the route most of the kickers in the NFL take. They very rarely stick with the first team they play with - there seems to be a learning curve. (Akers, Bironis, Gould and the list goes on and on) Compare the kicking stats of Folk vs Suisham in the two games they played head to head. Compare the kick off distance and field goals. I do not see any difference. I am not running Folk down - I think he is a decent kicker. But, let's be real - would he be a pro-bowl kicker if he did not play for the first place Dallas Cowboys. He did not have even the second best stats in the NFC. Robbie Gould should have been the Pro-Bowl kicker - he lead the NFC in percentage and kick-off yardage. We will see how Folk handles the pressure of the playoffs. Of course, if he misses one I'm sure you will be calling for his head. Maybe you can bring Vanderjagt back - after all he has the stats you are looking for - the most accurate kicker in NFL history!!

01-08-2008, 10:37 AM	#7
HOGTIMUS PRIME Special Teams Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 101	Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer I have no problem with Suisam as our long term kicker, but Frost has to go, is there a bigger choke artist than him at the punting position? Draft that kid from LSU he has a cannon for a leg.

01-07-2008, 12:25 PM	#9
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,832	Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer Hey, if 83% and 29 FGs = a kicking quagmire, bring it on. We've seen much, much worse over the years here. We've gone through kicker after kicker including dumping David Akers prematurely. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

01-07-2008, 12:37 PM	#10
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Aldie, VA Age: 47 Posts: 4,101	Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer One thing I wanted add.... I think special teams as a whole killed alot of our momentum with all those penalties. Rock kept getting great returns that put us in good field position. Also, the coverage wasn't that great either. Seattle won the field position game.

01-07-2008, 01:32 PM	#11
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,264	Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer Just like many of us said before the game, Seattle had to play the game of their lives and we had to play at least "equal" to the past four weeks before that. Seattle held up it's end of the bargain, we just crapped the bed. It happens and it just so happened it was the playoffs. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

01-07-2008, 02:57 PM	#12
qb1717 Camp Scrub Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5	Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer OK, I keep reading about how awful Suisham has been - a choker from this Dallas guy. Now, start talking facts instead of what you think is fact. Your first problem is the San Francisco take. He wasn't even there in the preseason. When released from Dallas he was signed to the practice squad for one week because Joe Nedney was hurt. He did not play AT ALL and was released after the week because Nedney was OK. So, that was a real choke??? Now, in Dallas, he did not even have a chance to kick many field goals - in fact he was originally on the team as a kick-off specialist for Vanderjagt. And in the revolving door that was there at the time - how could any kicker do well? I would say that if Folk had been in that same soap opera with the Parcell's mind games, then his performance may not have been so good either. Should Suisham have missed - of course not. But, lets look at the whole picture. That was the first pressure kick he missed in Washington. How many games did he actually help Washington win this year?? This was the FIRST game that you could tie him to the loss. The Redskins DID NOT PLAY like they SHOULD have won that game. COULD THEY HAVE - SURE. BUT, how do you hang the inept play for most of the game on the kicker. Oh, and by the way - your boy has not proven himself in playoff competition yet either. Maybe he will shank the ball similar to what he did two weeks ago on a gimme field goal.

01-07-2008, 03:17 PM	#13
sandtrapjack The Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,994	Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer Should have know this was going to turn into a Cowboys fan bashing a Redskins kicker. Guess there is no escaping that here. Was just sharing observations is all. If you are happy with Suisham, well I am happy for you. As I said earlier...we agree to disagree. Why don't we just leave it at that? I for one could not be happier that he is on your roster.

01-07-2008, 03:47 PM	#15
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 8,317	Re: Suisham = Momentum Killer I'm not buying. I personally would prefer to keep both guys unless a proven vet becomes available. Suisham had a pretty good year and so did Frosty. Are either of them playing as well as I would like them to? No, but they're better than our known alternatives.

Suisham = Momentum Killer

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