Are we being fair to Kyle Shanahan?

[Hog Heaven]

I hope we give Kyle some time to demonstrate what he can do. We just have some many inconsistencies everywhere, from the front office to the players on the field, so I hope we can stick with someone and see how they can do without firing them after one or two years.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Hog Heaven

I hope we give Kyle some time to demonstrate what he can do. We just have some many inconsistencies everywhere, from the front office to the players on the field, so I hope we can stick with someone and see how they can do without firing them after one or two years.

Maybe Danny Boy can give Kyle just a wee bit of help calling plays by getting Sherm Smith to come back to town and play that role. It worked so well when he was here last time...

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I disagree 100%.
I guess it depends on what you mean by 'change'.

I mean, if a West Coast offense coach comes to a team that has a Power Run players on it, he isn't going to change his system to fit the players. He's going to run his scheme and find out who can play in the system, and replace everybody else. (same with the defense)

Originally Posted by 30gut

Disagree.
We ran the ball decent (middle of the pack in YPC) we didn't run the ball often enough (IIRC 2nd/3rd to last).
In most cases 1st down is the playcallers choice pass/run.
We were top 10 1st down pass attempts (as of week 9).

15th in average
30th in total rushing

Some of that has to do with McNabb accuracy issues putting us in to many 3rd and longs. Still, our running game isn't/wasn't where it needs to be. Torrain is slow, but runs hard.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I mean, if a West Coast offense coach comes to a team that has a Power Run players on it, he isn't going to change his system to fit the players. He's going to run his scheme and find out who can play in the system, and replace everybody else. (same with the defense)



15th in average
30th in total rushing

Some of that has to do with McNabb accuracy issues putting us in to many 3rd and longs. Still, our running game isn't/wasn't where it needs to be. Torrain is slow, but runs hard.

like when gibbs came here with a passing offense and completely flipped it after going 0-5 and seeing it not work?

or when schotty got tony banks and built an offense around him (waiver wire trash QB) and ONE audible?

i'm sorry, but i think a coach who insists on getting his players first is quickly unemployed.


so when peyton manning's OC comes in and decides to kepp running the same offense until the next peyton manning comes around... that makes him what? a genius? 20 wasted seasons in, is he allowed to keep saying "if i only had my players"?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by That Guy

like when gibbs came here with a passing offense and completely flipped it after going 0-5 and seeing it not work?

or when schotty got tony banks and built an offense around him (waiver wire trash QB) and ONE audible?

i'm sorry, but i think a coach who insists on getting his players first is quickly unemployed.


so when peyton manning's OC comes in and decides to kepp running the same offense until the next peyton manning comes around... that makes him what? a genius? 20 wasted seasons in, is he allowed to keep saying "if i only had my players"?

I never said you don't run plays to their strengths or make adjustments. That isn't changing your scheme.

Both of your examples, neither one of them was successful either. If you don't give your coach enough time to get his personnel right, you are going to continue the coaching carousel.

ps. I never knew Gibbs 2.0 brought in a "passing offense". Maybe that's why he traded a all pro CB (and 2nd rounder) for a RB, to help out that "passing offense" of his.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I mean, if a West Coast offense coach comes to a team that has a Power Run players on it, he isn't going to change his system to fit the players. He's going to run his scheme and find out who can play in the system, and replace everybody else. (same with the defense)

Of course an coach isn't going to run a completely different system.
A WCO isn't going to run an Coryell offense.
But to think coaches don't adpat their systems is naive.
Mike Holmgren/Brad Childress both WCO coaches used a more run focused attack when their personnel dictated i.e. Shaun Alexander/Adrian Peterson.

The Pats went from a balanced Erhardt-Perkins offense to a wide open spread offense w/ Brady and Moss back to a ball control offense w/ Cassel now they run a double TE focused passing attack.

The previous poster mentions Gibbs (not Gibbs 2.0) who came from a pass focused air Coryell offense and re-focused the attack into a run centric single back/h-back lead offense.

The good coaches adapt their system to fit the players its long been one of Bellichicks calling cards.
Etc...etc...

15th in average
30th in total rushing

Which supports my original statement.
15th in average=meaning we ran the ball decent
30 in total rushing=we didn't run the ball enough (30th in total rushing attempts)
Heck, even Kyle said he needs to run the ball more

Some of that has to do with McNabb accuracy issues putting us in to many 3rd and longs. Still, our running game isn't/wasn't where it needs to be. Torrain is slow, but runs hard.

Your changing the point here.
Of course we need to run the ball better.
You made a statement but the stats don't support your statement.

We were top of the league in 1st down pass attempts.
You can't blame a high number of 1st down pass attempts on anything else then coaches choice.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I never said you don't run plays to their strengths or make adjustments. That isn't changing your scheme.

Both of your examples, neither one of them was successful either. If you don't give your coach enough time to get his personnel right, you are going to continue the coaching carousel.

ps. I never knew Gibbs 2.0 brought in a "passing offense". Maybe that's why he traded a all pro CB (and 2nd rounder) for a RB, to help out that "passing offense" of his.

have you heard of air coryell? really?

0-5 and ending 8-8 on both counts sounds like a pretty good adjustment to me.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I never said you don't run plays to their strengths or make adjustments. That isn't changing your scheme.

Both of your examples, neither one of them was successful either. If you don't give your coach enough time to get his personnel right, you are going to continue the coaching carousel.

ps. I never knew Gibbs 2.0 brought in a "passing offense". Maybe that's why he traded a all pro CB (and 2nd rounder) for a RB, to help out that "passing offense" of his.

He was referring to Gibbs in 1981, not 2004. Gibbs did bring a passing offense from San Diego in '81.

I agree with you though -- we can't constantly bring in new systems every year because they don't do well after one season with bad personnel. Kyle's scheme works; we saw it in Houston when they racked up big time yardage.

When a team is rebuilding, -- and make no mistake, we ARE rebuilding -- you don't keep the crap that's been hanging around for years stinking the place up and change your philosophy around that crap. You stick to your guns, go with what you know works, and find the players who execute your scheme effectively.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I mean, if a West Coast offense coach comes to a team that has a Power Run players on it, he isn't going to change his system to fit the players. He's going to run his scheme and find out who can play in the system, and replace everybody else. (same with the defense)



15th in average
30th in total rushing

Some of that has to do with McNabb accuracy issues putting us in to many 3rd and longs. Still, our running game isn't/wasn't where it needs to be. Torrain is slow, but runs hard.

torain may be a bruiser, but he is most definitley not slow.