Post Rams Debacle Thoughts

SUNRA · 08-29-2004, 04:58 PM

It was interesting to see the new rule in affect concerning no contact with the receiver after five yards. It's defininitely going to work for the WR's who can't separate from their defender. I just hope Smoot and Springs play better than what they showed against the Rams.

illdefined · 08-29-2004, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dana87

He only played in the 1st quarter. As I remeber the game I belive they didn't score a TD until midway through the 2nd quarter. Things didn't get ugly until alot of the 1st team was on the sidelines and we had starters placed throughout the Defense.

i remember seeing Griffin into the second quarter. and the Rams offensive line is supposed to be a shambles. sure hope Griffin steps up and that Daniels can add alot when he finally comes.

SUNRA · 08-29-2004, 05:32 PM

C. Griffin player the entire first half. The first team was on the field a long time due to a three and out offense. Hopefully Samules will be back soon.

bedlamVR · 08-30-2004, 05:15 AM

Bottom line the rams and the Skins wanted different things fronm the game friday night. The Rams wanted a morral booster weather that was the players or the coaches and they got it. We wanted to evaluate players before first cut down this weekend and stayed with match ups that illustrated individuals skills rather than planning a game to beat the Rams.

End of the night though I still think it was the Rams who were more sucessful acheiving thier goals. It wil be interesting to see what happens next week in the final preseason game in against the Falcons. Is it going to be a boost to lift the team or a final audition for the fringe players.

sportscurmudgeon · 08-30-2004, 04:08 PM

Gentlemen:

The Defensive line stunk out the joint. They gave up 150 yards on the ground to a team that was missing its TWO starting OTs. [BTW it looks as if Turley may be out for the year in STL.] The Rams averaged 4.2 yards per rush. That folks will get you beat 3 times out of 4.

Redskins were also missing their TWO starting OTs so how did their running game fare? Sixty two yards on twenty two carries is less than three yards a carry.

The fact that there is even a discussion about whether or not Griffin played says something about the impact he made while he was in the game.
For the record, no matter how long he played or did not play, he recorded zero tackles and zero assists on tackles for his tenure on the field. Pardon me for not being impressed!

Pass defense was weak too. It looked as if people were sleepwaking out there. The Rams got 284 yards on 17 completions. That is an average of almost 17 yards per catch. That is waaaay too much!

Rock Cartwright had 5 carries. His longest carry was 1 yard; his net yardage for the game was minus-1 yard. Can anyone spell, "Special Teams"?

Hogskin · 08-30-2004, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Gentlemen:

The Defensive line stunk out the joint. They gave up 150 yards on the ground to a team that was missing its TWO starting OTs. [BTW it looks as if Turley may be out for the year in STL.] The Rams averaged 4.2 yards per rush. That folks will get you beat 3 times out of 4.

Redskins were also missing their TWO starting OTs so how did their running game fare? Sixty two yards on twenty two carries is less than three yards a carry.

The fact that there is even a discussion about whether or not Griffin played says something about the impact he made while he was in the game.
For the record, no matter how long he played or did not play, he recorded zero tackles and zero assists on tackles for his tenure on the field. Pardon me for not being impressed!

Pass defense was weak too. It looked as if people were sleepwaking out there. The Rams got 284 yards on 17 completions. That is an average of almost 17 yards per catch. That is waaaay too much!

Rock Cartwright had 5 carries. His longest carry was 1 yard; his net yardage for the game was minus-1 yard. Can anyone spell, "Special Teams"?

A little(?) overreaction here. Yeah, they had a rough game. But total yards in a preseason game is totally meaningless. It always includes at least a half of 2nd and 3rd strings, several of whom are about to be dropped from the team. And the other half typically has subs coming in that normally won't. And, of course, much of the defensive strategy is not even being used in the FIRST half. They are expreimenting with strategies, plays, and personnel throughout the game. I've been crying out for them to add one good pass rusher - they still have that need. But the situation is not anywhere near as bad as you paint it. If they win the next game everyone will then go back to the euphoria there was after game two - which was just as much an overreaction. Try to level out, guys - it's PRESEASON. Not nearly as much an indicator as it may seem. Try to remember Spurrier's fantastic preseason...

monk81 · 08-30-2004, 07:42 PM

Smoot certainly got smoked...............is anyone missing Champ Bailey already.........
But it's hard to judge the defense with Arrington and others sitting out..............\

And the running game as been unimpressive.......did Jansen's injury set us back a season or do we just need some more time.....???????

sportscurmudgeon · 08-30-2004, 10:52 PM

Hogskin:

I agree that the specific numbers in a preseason game are not very important but the magnitudes are important.

When you give up 4.2 yards per carry - most of it to a rookie RB going behind an OL that was called "makeshift" about half a dozen times during the game - that is BAD news.

When your pass defense gives up an average of 17 yards per completion that is not good - unless you were trying out Tiny Tim and Goldilocks at cornerback that evening.

Pretend this was a real game for a moment. Which defensive lineman would you think might get a nomination for "Defensive Player of the Week"? Did any of them even look good? Notice I did not ask if any of them looked outstanding...

That Guy · 08-30-2004, 11:04 PM

there was no pass rush to support the CBs, and the rams offense was on the field too long... holt vs champ, holts gonna win plenty... williams was testing to see how well players could do man coverage on an elite receiver, i don't think he'd EVER leave holt in single coverage for 3 entire quarters in a game that counted...

Hogskin · 08-31-2004, 12:07 AM

Curmudgeon, you are still doing exactly the same thing. You quote numbers that are based on a combination of first, second, and third strings, including play of guys that are already dropped today. Maybe they did get 4.2 yards per carry. What does that mean? Faulk was the starter. He got less than 3 yards per carry. I don't put significance on that either, but it demonstrates what I mean. Now go back a couple years. How many passing yards did we get in EVERY preseason game? What was the passing yardage? As we found out when the games started for real, it had a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y no significance. All you can really glean from these games are an idea about INDIVIDUALS' performances. The defense as a group, or the defensive backs as a group, or the DL as a group can be made to look much better or worse than they are by the play of non-regulars at those or other positions on either team. And most of the plays they are using are NOT the plays that will be the bread and butter plays during the season. Coaches don't even try to get that kind of info from the games. They assess individuals, and they assess plays and play combinations they are testing. And plays that look like horrible failures to US, may look great to them (or vice-versa) because of the way they intend to use them later, or because of wrinkles they will add.

All I'm saying is that you can not make those blanket statements this time of year with any degree of accuracy at all. THe strong up and down emotions here after preseason wins and losses is really surprising to me.

MTK · 08-31-2004, 08:39 AM

Breaking down numbers in the preseason is a waste of time. Stats never tell the whole truth, especially in the preseason.

Hogskin · 08-31-2004, 08:40 AM

I just came across this article in this morning's Times. It says it very well.

[URL=http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20040831-120001-4182r.htm]

SKINSnCANES · 08-31-2004, 12:24 PM

Arizona went 4-0 in preseason last year, put up good numbers...And that resulted in how many wins? Plus all the huge numbers spurrier put up in preseason, what did that prove.

Redskins_P · 08-31-2004, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Breaking down numbers in the preseason is a waste of time. Stats never tell the whole truth, especially in the preseason.

Except in Madden!

SKINSnCANES · 08-31-2004, 12:56 PM

lol. it doesnt seem to matter as much this year.

08-31-2004, 12:07 AM	#70
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 82 Posts: 659	Curmudgeon, you are still doing exactly the same thing. You quote numbers that are based on a combination of first, second, and third strings, including play of guys that are already dropped today. Maybe they did get 4.2 yards per carry. What does that mean? Faulk was the starter. He got less than 3 yards per carry. I don't put significance on that either, but it demonstrates what I mean. Now go back a couple years. How many passing yards did we get in EVERY preseason game? What was the passing yardage? As we found out when the games started for real, it had a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y no significance. All you can really glean from these games are an idea about INDIVIDUALS' performances. The defense as a group, or the defensive backs as a group, or the DL as a group can be made to look much better or worse than they are by the play of non-regulars at those or other positions on either team. And most of the plays they are using are NOT the plays that will be the bread and butter plays during the season. Coaches don't even try to get that kind of info from the games. They assess individuals, and they assess plays and play combinations they are testing. And plays that look like horrible failures to US, may look great to them (or vice-versa) because of the way they intend to use them later, or because of wrinkles they will add. All I'm saying is that you can not make those blanket statements this time of year with any degree of accuracy at all. THe strong up and down emotions here after preseason wins and losses is really surprising to me. __________________ John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc. Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

08-31-2004, 08:40 AM	#72
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 82 Posts: 659	I just came across this article in this morning's Times. It says it very well. [URL=http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20040831-120001-4182r.htm] __________________ John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc. Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

08-31-2004, 12:24 PM	#73
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 41 Posts: 5,453	Arizona went 4-0 in preseason last year, put up good numbers...And that resulted in how many wins? Plus all the huge numbers spurrier put up in preseason, what did that prove. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

08-31-2004, 12:56 PM	#75
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 41 Posts: 5,453	lol. it doesnt seem to matter as much this year. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

08-29-2004, 04:58 PM	#61
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	It was interesting to see the new rule in affect concerning no contact with the receiver after five yards. It's defininitely going to work for the WR's who can't separate from their defender. I just hope Smoot and Springs play better than what they showed against the Rams.

08-29-2004, 05:32 PM	#63
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	C. Griffin player the entire first half. The first team was on the field a long time due to a three and out offense. Hopefully Samules will be back soon.

08-30-2004, 05:15 AM	#64
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	Bottom line the rams and the Skins wanted different things fronm the game friday night. The Rams wanted a morral booster weather that was the players or the coaches and they got it. We wanted to evaluate players before first cut down this weekend and stayed with match ups that illustrated individuals skills rather than planning a game to beat the Rams. End of the night though I still think it was the Rams who were more sucessful acheiving thier goals. It wil be interesting to see what happens next week in the final preseason game in against the Falcons. Is it going to be a boost to lift the team or a final audition for the fringe players.

08-30-2004, 04:08 PM	#65
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Gentlemen: The Defensive line stunk out the joint. They gave up 150 yards on the ground to a team that was missing its TWO starting OTs. [BTW it looks as if Turley may be out for the year in STL.] The Rams averaged 4.2 yards per rush. That folks will get you beat 3 times out of 4. Redskins were also missing their TWO starting OTs so how did their running game fare? Sixty two yards on twenty two carries is less than three yards a carry. The fact that there is even a discussion about whether or not Griffin played says something about the impact he made while he was in the game. For the record, no matter how long he played or did not play, he recorded zero tackles and zero assists on tackles for his tenure on the field. Pardon me for not being impressed! Pass defense was weak too. It looked as if people were sleepwaking out there. The Rams got 284 yards on 17 completions. That is an average of almost 17 yards per catch. That is waaaay too much! Rock Cartwright had 5 carries. His longest carry was 1 yard; his net yardage for the game was minus-1 yard. Can anyone spell, "Special Teams"?

08-30-2004, 07:42 PM	#67
monk81 The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: TEXAS Posts: 2,029	Smoot certainly got smoked...............is anyone missing Champ Bailey already......... But it's hard to judge the defense with Arrington and others sitting out..............\ And the running game as been unimpressive.......did Jansen's injury set us back a season or do we just need some more time.....???????

08-30-2004, 10:52 PM	#68
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Hogskin: I agree that the specific numbers in a preseason game are not very important but the magnitudes are important. When you give up 4.2 yards per carry - most of it to a rookie RB going behind an OL that was called "makeshift" about half a dozen times during the game - that is BAD news. When your pass defense gives up an average of 17 yards per completion that is not good - unless you were trying out Tiny Tim and Goldilocks at cornerback that evening. Pretend this was a real game for a moment. Which defensive lineman would you think might get a nomination for "Defensive Player of the Week"? Did any of them even look good? Notice I did not ask if any of them looked outstanding...

08-30-2004, 11:04 PM	#69
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 41 Posts: 17,472	there was no pass rush to support the CBs, and the rams offense was on the field too long... holt vs champ, holts gonna win plenty... williams was testing to see how well players could do man coverage on an elite receiver, i don't think he'd EVER leave holt in single coverage for 3 entire quarters in a game that counted...

08-31-2004, 08:39 AM	#71
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 51 Posts: 99,318	Breaking down numbers in the preseason is a waste of time. Stats never tell the whole truth, especially in the preseason.

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