Zorn calls team "Soft"

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Although I like Zorn here was my take....

Softness starts at the top as someone else said. Again I was not impressed with Zorn's play calling or schemeing. Wait I should preface by saying I know they supposedly don't scheme for preseason but they should start. Going into a game blind and hoping everything will work out is BS. Schemeing gives the coaches a chance to practice as well, it puts the team in a best situation to win, and they can pick the players they want to use on certain plays. The play calling from starters on down sucked.

I know Gibbs was all about not showing his hand as far as plays go and would be vanilla during preseason, then it would take 2-3 games for the team learn the plays Gibbs kept secret and work as a team. Other teams come out and play their game, use their plays in the playbook and the Skins don't. The plays other teams are using are good plays and the teams are saying this is us try and stop us knowing full well teams will have a hard time stopping them. Campbell and Zorn admitted they had only 50 plays last yr which by mid season I'm sure other teams figured out what we were doing. Supposedly according to Campbell we now have 130 plus.....where are they? I saw the same BS plays....screens, and 5-10 yrd passes. Especially when we needed 12-15 yrds.

Campbell had all day to throw, sometimes 5-7 seconds and no one to throw to? Who's coaching the WR's. On that note who's coaching the TE's and teaching ball controll? Ball controll is a fundamental skill.....someone forget to get back to basics in camp?

Our running game was our strong suit last yr and I was not impressed with any of the runs in the 1st preseason game. The blocking has got to get better or our passing will need to step up and be the staple of the team which we have not seen yet.

Defensively I'm not worried. I'm not sure what Blache was doing but game planning and schemeing was not there and of course AH will make a difference as well as Orakpo. It was painfully obvious they were letting certain players stay out for extended periods to experience but they look tired and needed to rest periodically. The defense got walked on in the 3rd and 4th quarter cause the same players stayed out there for the most part and the offense again went 3 and out quicker then a lightening strike.

I know it was preseason I'm just not impressed from the top down. Yet again.

and this completes the trifecta

[rypper11]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I disagree. Even if your lost in the scheme or player responsibilty, go out there and knock someone down. Ravens ROOKIE Oher, in his first NFL game pancaked a few of our veterans. Our backups that have been on the team for a couple of years did not. Being physical is a combination of skill, confidance and desire. Our backups lack the last two.

His "pancake" of Wynn was a takedown and should have been called holding.

[Lotus]

Looks like thing became less "soft" in an intense practice today, during which D.Hall and Marko mixed it up:
Redskins Insider - Hall, Mitchell Tangle in More Intense Practice

[Sonny9TD]

Let's see how next game goes and see if they pick it up

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by rypper11

His "pancake" of Wynn was a takedown and should have been called holding.

There was so much holding going on by the Ravens it was rediculous. Especially against Orakpo. Everytime he made it into the back field he was held and the Refs wouldn't call it. I counted a holding call on just about every running play the Ravens ran but no call. I'm not trying to be a sour puss cause even I know the Skins played bad but the holding was easily seen. and I also agree the "Pancake" of Wynn although impressive was or should have been if not holding then unsportsman like conduct. I was so happy to see the Raven walk off with a cut to his head for his stupid move.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

and this completes the trifecta

Nice to see you could add to the discussion. Thanks. come again next week.

[Westover]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Nice to see you could add to the discussion. Thanks. come again next week.

Affirming someone's post is adding to the discussion. That is part of what a discussion is. Making a senseless criticism of a fellow board member, on the other hand, is not what I call adding to the discussion.

[warriorzpath]

I'm torn on what Zorn did (because I want to like him - being, he IS the redskins head coach). If he did this to motivate his team, then I'm all for it. But I think it was wrong for him to call out his players (in the media) if he was just saying what was on his mind.

Personally, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt - but he's been known to be candid when it comes to talking to the media.

And for those that want to downplay Zorn calling his players "soft" (assuming it is his true opinion and not a motivation tactic) - it does start with the head coach first. Some of the responsibility should be put on the player to be aggressive and be ready to play, but when the lack of energy or readiness to play involves several players - then the majority of that blame and responsibility should fall on the head coach - whether it be "soft" practices or a lack of motivation from Zorn.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by hooskins

This is the billion dollar question for the skins. Is it the players not showing up or the system itself?

I think the answer also includes the structure and the strategy of the front office.

That's a great point. I was thinking about this the other day -- define our offense. Can anyone do it?

Are we a running team? Portis' number of carries would suggest so, but that's not how a 'West Coast' offense typically operates. Then we have Jason Campbell as our quarterback who has a cannon for an arm. He did nothing but throw ICBMs downfield at Auburn which is what fit Joe Gibbs' offense best. Then last year we go out and draft three pass catchers in our first round.

I get the feeling that the players don't really know what their true identity is as an offense. And maybe Zorn doesn't either.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Westover

Affirming someone's post is adding to the discussion. That is part of what a discussion is. Making a senseless criticism of a fellow board member, on the other hand, is not what I call adding to the discussion.

I'm sorry I must have missed the "affirmation" when he wrote ...

"and this completes the trifecta."

Since it does not appear he's "affirming" anything I wrote I presume it is some sort of sarcastic joke that I didn't get, but it makes me happy someone understood it Keep on "Affirming."

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I think Zorn's offense is soft.

For that matter, I've always viewed the WCO as soft compared to "Redskins Football" - pounding out the run to set up play action. When the Peter King's of the world were keeping Art Monk out of the HoF, one of the stats they held as evidence was Monk's relatively low career TD numbers (68). I would argue that historically, the Redskins have run the ball in the red-zone, while most WCO's still pass over 50% of the time, even near the goal-line. I've always felt that nothing is more demoralizing to a defense than pounding the run in the redzone for a TD. Until Snyderato gets serious about building the top O-line in the league, I feel that we will have a dink and dump offense that raises little fear - I believe that soft is a very appropriate term.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

That's a great point. I was thinking about this the other day -- define our offense. Can anyone do it?

Are we a running team? Portis' number of carries would suggest so, but that's not how a 'West Coast' offense typically operates. Then we have Jason Campbell as our quarterback who has a cannon for an arm. He did nothing but throw ICBMs downfield at Auburn which is what fit Joe Gibbs' offense best. Then last year we go out and draft three pass catchers in our first round.

I get the feeling that the players don't really know what their true identity is as an offense. And maybe Zorn doesn't either.

A pure WCO doesn't even exist anymore, everyone is running hybrid systems.

As for WCO teams not running the ball I think that's a myth these days. Alexander put up some monster rushing numbers in Seattle. Gruden in Tampa loved to "pound the rock" as he put it, Green Bay has had their share of good rushing attacks over the years and they even had some guy named Favre that was known for having a big arm.

[hail_2_da_skins]

Originally Posted by Westover

Well the Ravens just have a vitality we don't have right now. They're a home grown team with a lot of depth.

Maybe Coach Zorn's comments will light a fire. I know that one important part of what really lights a fire under a team is a sense that you are always in contention to have a starting job, and that if you play well enough, you'll be the starter. Your play is what determines whether and how much you play.

At the quarterback position, Jason Campbell, a good person with respectable talent, got installed as quarterback, but I think he should have lost his job permanently to Todd Collins after the way Collins played at the end of 2007. Collins earned the starting job. But the Redskins wanted to put Campbell back in as a starter at the beginning of 2008, and closed the competition from the onset.

Then, after the season, deciding they'd made a mistake, the upper management goes gangbusters to try to trade the house to get a new quarterback in the offseason, ignoring Todd Collins and a potential star in Colt Brennan on their own roster.

All of this sends a very de-motivating message to players in my view. You can play your heart out and do superb, like Todd Collins, but it doesn't effect whether you'll play. That's for upper management to make a decision about.

You can be a budding potential star like Colt Brennan, but you can find yourself on a team ready to make huge sacrifices to bring on some shiny player from afar at your position.

If you want players to play hard, one of the keys is setting up a situation where there is a direct connection between how hard and well they play and whether and how much they play.

Otherwise you get players who play soft. There already are fabulously well paid free agents at the position you're playing at. You know you don't have a chance. You know that the players you're playing with are there because they were brought here or installed here. You know that the effort isn't what is paramount.

The Baltimore Ravens are built on the draft; they aren't a handpicked team. They play with a great deal of energy and passion because they know that is what gives them the opportunity to start. Starters aren't installed - they are always challenged.

I hope Jim Zorn is able to remake this team. I like Jim Zorn and I think he has a ton to offer. But the thing is that the coach is another replaceable part. He could easily be dumped for yet another new coach (how many have we had here?). How many coaches have the Pittsburgh Steelers had since 1969? Three coaches.

OK, time to step down from my soapbox!

I applaud what you are saying. You hit the nail right on the head. The Ravens and the Skins are exact opposites in organization philosophy. You brought up an interesting issue about the lack of intensity by the backups because they know the organization does not value building from within.

[firstdown]

Not sure why the team played so bad on Thursday night but after a game like that its a good chance to see how the coach will respond and get the team playing like it should. I really don't care after 1 preseason game but if they do not show improvement then I'll start to show the concerns.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Not sure why the team played so bad on Thursday night but after a game like that its a good chance to see how the coach will respond and get the team playing like it should. I really don't care after 1 preseason game but if they do not show improvement then I'll start to show the concerns.

DITTO, our first string needs to prove we can put up points and deny the Steeler first string.