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Old 07-14-2020, 06:52 AM   #61
TheGuyFromOverThere
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

Stupid me and my second language.

Didnīt mean concur, did mean disagree.
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:48 AM   #62
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

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Originally Posted by punch it in View Post
A bunch of white guys commiserating that they cant call Native Americans derogatory names anymore and pointing to a completely debunked poll of some sorts done by other white guys for proof that itís all good. Classic.
A NJ liberal trying to control everyone else...classic.

For the record, I'm a hell of a lot more NA than the average "Indian" Senator and I have been a REDSKINS fan my whole life. I've never used it to cash in though, never focused on race or skin color for any reason.

Were you ever actually a Redskins fan...or has New Jersey just damaged you that much?


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Is someone gonna tell him about Chicago gun control?
Bwaha. Chicago is exhibit A on how gun control always fails.

Want to talk about racism...look at urban gun control. That takes the ability for black families to protect themselves in the most dangerous neighborhoods in America. THAT is racist.


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Originally Posted by rocnrik View Post
Does anybody have any idea when the new name will be announced?
No one does other than maybe a judge handling the trademark dispute.
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:55 AM   #63
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

I don't get the objection to the name change.

I've been referring to them as the Burgundy and Gold or Washington for years now.

And there is some truly uninformed spotting off in this thread....I would say surprisingly uninformed but I know better.
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:57 AM   #64
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

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I don't get the objection to the name change.



I've been referring to them as the Burgundy and Gold or Washington for years now.



And there is some truly uninformed spotting off in this thread....I would say surprisingly uninformed but I know better.


Because you feel the name is offensive? Or just what you called them?
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:07 AM   #65
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

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Because you feel the name is offensive? Or just what you called them?
Years ago I gave the name some thought and did some research. Some research on the word and some research on George Preston Marshall and the notion that the name was chosen to 'honor' Native Americans seemed incongruent.

I thought the organization/owner missed a real opportunity to get in front of the issue.

When I made my decision I noticed that some of the team's own on air personalities called the team Burgundy and Gold or Washington and followed suit.
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:12 AM   #66
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

duplicate
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Old 07-24-2020, 09:16 AM   #67
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

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Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
Years ago I gave the name some thought and did some research. Some research on the word and some research on George Preston Marshall and the notion that the name was chosen to 'honor' Native Americans seemed incongruent.



I thought the organization/owner missed a real opportunity to get in front of the issue.



When I made my decision I noticed that some of the team's own on air personalities called the team Burgundy and Gold or Washington and followed suit.

Gotcha. Refreshing post. I was sort of feeling like I was on an uninhabited island.....
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Old 07-24-2020, 01:05 PM   #68
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

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Originally Posted by 30gut View Post
Years ago I gave the name some thought and did some research. Some research on the word and some research on George Preston Marshall and the notion that the name was chosen to 'honor' Native Americans seemed incongruent.
I wish you would share what you found in your research, as it might help me with a couple of questions I have in my mind.

I shared a few weeks ago that I had never witnessed anyone in real life use the word "redskin" as a demeaning term or racial slur, and that I had, in fact, witnessed some idiots using the term "chief" in a sarcastic, derogatory, and demeaning way directed at a Native American. Punch then said I was being political (which is ironic, seeing as how he brings politics into the majority of his posts), that I was in love with Trump, and that the word "chief" could not possibly be used in a sarcastic and demeaning manner. I was surprised that he not only had never heard "chief" used in such a way, but that he couldn't even imagine how that could happen. I asked him if he ever witnessed the term "redskin" being used as a racial slur, and he didn't answer.
Punch must think anytime that anyone says anything about any subject that he disagrees with, that person must be in love with Trump. I feel sorry for him. It must be difficult to go through life applying one's political view to everything. I like football, and I don't think about politics when I'm watching or discussing football. The fact that he felt I must be a Trump supporter was humorous to me, and underscores the fact that I don't get into politics on this board, since Punch was so obviously far off on my political leanings. If your research showed that, in fact, the word "redskin" is used as a racial slur, I'd be interested in hearing about it. The only usage for the word "redskin" that I recall witnessing, other than for the football team, is redskin potatoes.

My second question is about the whole underlying issue with the naming of the team. You speak of incongruency, and I have always wondered why the owner of an NFL team would choose to intentionally name his team after a group of people if that owner was a bigot that considered that group of people to be inferior; and if he felt that the word he chose was a demeaning term and a racial slur. It simply doesn't make sense to me that anyone would do that, rather than naming the team after someone or something that he admired, and felt was noble, with a word that engenders pride in the team. Never made sense to me. I mean, if you were a billionaire and purchased a sports franchise, would you name the team "the Slimeballs" or "the Cowards?" That the name of the team was meant to accent the strength and pride of Native American warriors just made more sense to me. Could your research clarify this incongruency for me? Thanks.

The barn door is shut and the name of my favorite team is definitely changing. That is sad to me, but it isn't the end of the world. I just wish I didn't feel like the change is being rammed down my throat by a small minority of folks without any substantive reason. I think I would feel better if it could be shown to me that the name really was demeaning, hurtful, and derogatory, not just claimed to be so.
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Old 07-24-2020, 11:45 PM   #69
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

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Originally Posted by Number44 View Post
I wish you would share what you found in your research, as it might help me with a couple of questions I have in my mind.



I shared a few weeks ago that I had never witnessed anyone in real life use the word "redskin" as a demeaning term or racial slur, and that I had, in fact, witnessed some idiots using the term "chief" in a sarcastic, derogatory, and demeaning way directed at a Native American. Punch then said I was being political (which is ironic, seeing as how he brings politics into the majority of his posts), that I was in love with Trump, and that the word "chief" could not possibly be used in a sarcastic and demeaning manner. I was surprised that he not only had never heard "chief" used in such a way, but that he couldn't even imagine how that could happen. I asked him if he ever witnessed the term "redskin" being used as a racial slur, and he didn't answer.

Punch must think anytime that anyone says anything about any subject that he disagrees with, that person must be in love with Trump. I feel sorry for him. It must be difficult to go through life applying one's political view to everything. I like football, and I don't think about politics when I'm watching or discussing football. The fact that he felt I must be a Trump supporter was humorous to me, and underscores the fact that I don't get into politics on this board, since Punch was so obviously far off on my political leanings. If your research showed that, in fact, the word "redskin" is used as a racial slur, I'd be interested in hearing about it. The only usage for the word "redskin" that I recall witnessing, other than for the football team, is redskin potatoes.



My second question is about the whole underlying issue with the naming of the team. You speak of incongruency, and I have always wondered why the owner of an NFL team would choose to intentionally name his team after a group of people if that owner was a bigot that considered that group of people to be inferior; and if he felt that the word he chose was a demeaning term and a racial slur. It simply doesn't make sense to me that anyone would do that, rather than naming the team after someone or something that he admired, and felt was noble, with a word that engenders pride in the team. Never made sense to me. I mean, if you were a billionaire and purchased a sports franchise, would you name the team "the Slimeballs" or "the Cowards?" That the name of the team was meant to accent the strength and pride of Native American warriors just made more sense to me. Could your research clarify this incongruency for me? Thanks.



The barn door is shut and the name of my favorite team is definitely changing. That is sad to me, but it isn't the end of the world. I just wish I didn't feel like the change is being rammed down my throat by a small minority of folks without any substantive reason. I think I would feel better if it could be shown to me that the name really was demeaning, hurtful, and derogatory, not just claimed to be so.


Yeah its still stupid that you think chief is derogatory and redskin isnt. Actually it was stupid the first time you said it and now its pure insanity.
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Old 07-25-2020, 07:52 AM   #70
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

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Originally Posted by Number44 View Post
I wish you would share what you found in your research, as it might help me with a couple of questions I have in my mind.

I shared a few weeks ago that I had never witnessed anyone in real life use the word "redskin" as a demeaning term or racial slur, and that I had, in fact, witnessed some idiots using the term "chief" in a sarcastic, derogatory, and demeaning way directed at a Native American. Punch then said I was being political (which is ironic, seeing as how he brings politics into the majority of his posts), that I was in love with Trump, and that the word "chief" could not possibly be used in a sarcastic and demeaning manner. I was surprised that he not only had never heard "chief" used in such a way, but that he couldn't even imagine how that could happen. I asked him if he ever witnessed the term "redskin" being used as a racial slur, and he didn't answer.
Punch must think anytime that anyone says anything about any subject that he disagrees with, that person must be in love with Trump. I feel sorry for him. It must be difficult to go through life applying one's political view to everything. I like football, and I don't think about politics when I'm watching or discussing football. The fact that he felt I must be a Trump supporter was humorous to me, and underscores the fact that I don't get into politics on this board, since Punch was so obviously far off on my political leanings. If your research showed that, in fact, the word "redskin" is used as a racial slur, I'd be interested in hearing about it. The only usage for the word "redskin" that I recall witnessing, other than for the football team, is redskin potatoes.

My second question is about the whole underlying issue with the naming of the team. You speak of incongruency, and I have always wondered why the owner of an NFL team would choose to intentionally name his team after a group of people if that owner was a bigot that considered that group of people to be inferior; and if he felt that the word he chose was a demeaning term and a racial slur. It simply doesn't make sense to me that anyone would do that, rather than naming the team after someone or something that he admired, and felt was noble, with a word that engenders pride in the team. Never made sense to me. I mean, if you were a billionaire and purchased a sports franchise, would you name the team "the Slimeballs" or "the Cowards?" That the name of the team was meant to accent the strength and pride of Native American warriors just made more sense to me. Could your research clarify this incongruency for me? Thanks.

The barn door is shut and the name of my favorite team is definitely changing. That is sad to me, but it isn't the end of the world. I just wish I didn't feel like the change is being rammed down my throat by a small minority of folks without any substantive reason. I think I would feel better if it could be shown to me that the name really was demeaning, hurtful, and derogatory, not just claimed to be so.
I started reading a few of these when the name change demand started in June I have changed my stance on the name. I donít need to be contributing to Native American problems by rooting for a mascot. The first link is a great review paper and the second link shares several research papers on the name.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...3DxzKgM2WoRsIJ

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...=1&oi=scholart
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:58 AM   #71
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

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Yeah its still stupid that you think chief is derogatory and redskin isnt. Actually it was stupid the first time you said it and now its pure insanity.
Still avoiding the question, I see. Please share with us about all the times you have heard "redskin" used in a derogatory way. Everyone that disagrees with you in any way about anything is both stupid and a Trump lover. You must be real fun at parties.
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Old 07-25-2020, 12:58 PM   #72
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

I am not taking sides in this but I have never seen anyone use "Redskins" as a slur. I have seen many people use "Chief" negatively. I have a co-worker that uses it when someone disagrees with him. Ok "Chief" or Whatever "Chief"

My issue with the name change is the meaning of words changes throughout history. For many years now, the word Redskins true meaning was the football team in Washington.

Example - Bad meant bad - then it meant good. This stuff changes all the time. Look at Cracker: it was a slur, then became a Grunge band in the '90s, now it is the tools to perform cracking, but to me is best with cheese.
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:32 PM   #73
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

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I started reading a few of these when the name change demand started in June I have changed my stance on the name. I donít need to be contributing to Native American problems by rooting for a mascot. The first link is a great review paper and the second link shares several research papers on the name.
Thank you. Interesting reading. This is the kind of dialogue I was seeking, rather than the name-calling and labeling another poster consistently resorts to.

A conclusion that is drawn in a few of these studies is that the use of Native American mascots reduces the self-esteem of Native American youth, despite the indication that the majority of respondents in the studies said they were proud of the way Native Americans were portrayed in these mascots and were not against the use of the mascots. It wasn't really explained how their level of self-esteem was measured. If it is true that Native American youth are being psychologically damaged by the use of these mascots, then I would be in favor of eliminating all such mascots. I'd like to see more of the hard data of how that conclusion was arrived at, though. Reading the hypotheses that these studies commenced with, it seems that the possibility of confirmation bias exists in these studies. If such a study was commenced with the presupposition that the mascots either did or did not cause psychological issues, the interpretation of the results, or the very nature of how the questions are presented could potentially affect the findings.

"Discussion
The American Indian mascot representation had more positive associations than the clearly negative representation presented in the Stereotypically Negative Outcomes condition. The Chief Wahoo mascot representation was as positive as the Pocahontas representation. Taken together, these results suggest that American Indian mascot representations are not always regarded as negative. However, the guiding question is whether these positive associations also have positive psychological consequences for American Indian students. In Studies 2 to 4, we examine whether American Indian mascot representations influence how American Indians make sense of themselves both personally and as group members. Specifically, in Study 2, we hypothesize that although Chief Wahoo and Pocahontas elicit positive associations, they will still depress self-esteem relative to the control condition."

"Conclusion
Given the documented educational inequities for Native Americans in comparison to U.S. averages, it is crucial that educational institutions take immediate actions to facilitate the success of Native American students. Although most people in the U.S. do not perceive Native American mascots as problematic, all of the academic studies undertaken to study the psychosocial effects of these mascots demonstrate either direct negative effects on Native Americans or that these mascots activate, reflect, and/or reinforce stereotyping and prejudice among non-Native persons. Based on this concise, but consistent, body of research evidence, we conclude that it is past time to eliminate Native American mascots in educational (and other) settings throughout the United States."

That there are educational inequities for Native Americans is not in dispute. I'm sure there are, but that fact exists independently from sports teams using Native American mascots. It is a real problem that demands real action to improve. Changing sports teams names as a supposed remedy for these educational inequities seems rather like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Again, if the use of these mascots in a respectful manner truly does negatively impact the self-esteem of Native American youth, then, by all means eliminate the use of these mascots. All of them. I'm just not sure that these research papers have adequately proven that. I've only read four of them, so some of the others may have more conclusive data.

Native Americans face real challenges and inequities in our society. I'm just not sure that the use of Native American sports mascots is a cause.

As I understand it, there are a lot of folks that don't really have a problem with Native American mascots, per se, but strongly wanted the removal of the mascot "Redskins" from our team in particular. Apparently, the view was that the word is a racial slur. The studies that you linked which I have read don't address this. My question remains: "is it?" I am unaware of that usage of the word, and have seen no evidence that the word is being used in such a way by anyone. And as I asked in my previous post, why on earth would an owner, bigot or not, choose to name his team with a racial slur? How does that make any sense to anyone? No one has yet explained that. But then, I'm stupid.

As I said, the barn door is closed and the name of my favorite team is changed forever. I'm not happy about it, but life goes on and I'm still a fan of the Football Team. It's not the end of the world and I certainly don't presume that those that don't agree with me are either unintelligent or belong to any particular political party.
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:44 PM   #74
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Re: Problem with posts or censorship?

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Still avoiding the question, I see. Please share with us about all the times you have heard "redskin" used in a derogatory way. Everyone that disagrees with you in any way about anything is both stupid and a Trump lover. You must be real fun at parties.


If I tell you white people know better about how Native Americans feel and that BLM is a terrorist organization do you promise to stop talking to me?
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Old 07-25-2020, 01:46 PM   #75
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Problem with posts or censorship?

And Redskins was used as a derogatory name well before any of us were born so can we stop with the ďi never heard anyone say that beforeĒ. Just because it lost its original meanIng over time and became synonymous with a sports team doesnít negate its origin. Also calling someone chief is the same as saying sarge or babe or dude. Not derogatory. Maybe disrespectful in another way.
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