Vince Young overrated?

[TheBigD]

Originally Posted by jsarno

But it's become obvious that the proof I have already given is not good enough for some to take their blinders off. It's about as concrete as you can get. How some can see him as a winner when he's last or next to last in every statistical catagory is beyond me. The titans are winning this year despite of him. Imagine how good they would be with a real QB?

What I can't believe is the fact that you dedicate a whole thread trying to convince people here that Vince is "overrated." Why is it important to you that we think the same way you do? What is wrong with some of believing that he is a decent QB? Oh no, we are all ignorants and blind because we refuse to say Vince sucks.

Take it easy dude, people have different opinions. Yes what you presented were facts, but who cares about those numbers if the TEAM is winning. Poeple enjoyed watching Vick even if the Falcons lost.

Now, I am with you that his numbers don't look good. But if he wins a Super Bowl, don't you think he would probably get in to HOF? (take it easy I don't want you to have a heart-attack).

[MTK]

This thread is retarded and I'll tell you why.

I don't think anyone confuses Young with Peyton Manning or Tom Brady as far as being a great pure passer goes. Obviously when it comes to that area he has a lot of room to grow. His numbers aren't pretty and they probably will never reach the high level of a Manning or Brady. But it is worth noting his completion % is up quite a bit this year, and he's only got 19 starts under his belt in the NFL so I think it's premature to be calling him overrated, since he really hasn't fully blossomed.

The bottom line with him boils down to the fact he just finds ways to make plays in crunch time, and here's some examples.

His QB rating goes up significantly in the 4th qtr of games (90.9). His QB rating also goes up significantly in the redzone (103.9). When trailing by 1-8 points his rating goes up to 100.9.

I think Jaws said it best a few weeks ago on MNF, Young just outperforms his stats. There's a reason why he was the rookie of the year, and there's a good reason why so many people agree with the point that Jaws made.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

This thread is retarded and I'll tell you why.

I don't think anyone confuses Young with Peyton Manning or Tom Brady as far as being a great pure passer goes. Obviously when it comes to that area he has a lot of room to grow. His numbers aren't pretty and they probably will never reach the high level of a Manning or Brady. But it is worth noting his completion % is up quite a bit this year, and he's only got 19 starts under his belt in the NFL so I think it's premature to be calling him overrated, since he really hasn't fully blossomed.

The bottom line with him boils down to the fact he just finds ways to make plays in crunch time, and here's some examples.

His QB rating goes up significantly in the 4th qtr of games (90.9). His QB rating also goes up significantly in the redzone (103.9). When trailing by 1-8 points his rating goes up to 100.9.

I think Jaws said it best a few weeks ago on MNF, Young just outperforms his stats. There's a reason why he was the rookie of the year, and there's a good reason why so many people agree with the point that Jaws made.

Do you think this trend is attributable to a skill and that we have seen enough of Young to be confident that he will continue to outplay himself late in games?

I don't think it will.

But even if I'm proven right in the end...I'm not going to get credit. People will just blame the Madden Curse!

[MTK]

He seems to have the knack for coming up big in big situations going back to his college days so I don't see why that trend would stop.

[GTripp0012]

It's not possible for some guys to "consistently outplay" their stats. That makes no sense.

Either one of two things will happen over time:

1) Vince's overall numbers will see significant improvement, and when we look back, we will see that his 4th quarter passing rating was simply foretelling of the greatness to come.

2) Vince will all of a sudden start to struggle in the fourth quarter and fail to win in the way he did his rookie year.

One of those two things (or a combination of them) is a certainty. It's not reasonable to expect him to continue to have weird splits in the 4th quarter that look a lot different from the rest of his body of work. There isn't a prior example you can cite to suggest this trend exists.

Based on extensive analysis, if I had to bet, I'd say Vince will head towards situation two, but it wouldn't shock me at all if in the future he was wildly successful.

[GTripp0012]

Wasn't he ALWAYS dominant in college, not just the 4th quarter?

[MTK]

I think he'll continue to improve as a passer and his numbers will move upwards and close the gap between his 1st qtr and 4th qtr numbers.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think he'll continue to improve as a passer and his numbers will move upwards and close the gap between his 1st qtr and 4th qtr numbers.

I think that's a very reasonable guess.

There's a lot of conflicting evidence on Young to whether he will be great or not, but I'll admit it's hard to not be impressed with his intangibles thus far. Of course, intangibles don't get you anywhere if you can't throw the football, but they do tend to be telling of a guy's future success.

For now, let's just say I'm far more confident Campbell will be great than I am that Young will ever be great.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Wasn't he ALWAYS dominant in college, not just the 4th quarter?

I really don't know, I can't find any detailed stat breakdowns of his college career.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think that's a very reasonable guess.

There's a lot of conflicting evidence on Young to whether he will be great or not, but I'll admit it's hard to not be impressed with his intangibles thus far. Of course, intangibles don't get you anywhere if you can't throw the football, but they do tend to be telling of a guy's future success.

For now, let's just say I'm far more confident Campbell will be great than I am that Young will ever be great.

I definitely agree with that.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I really don't know, I can't find any detailed stat breakdowns of his college career.

Neither can I.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Neither can I.

I'd be interested to see if there's any correlation between his college and pro career 4th qtr numbers.

If anyone can find something let us know.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'd be interested to see if there's any correlation between his college and pro career 4th qtr numbers.

If anyone can find something let us know.

Well we know for sure he dominated the 4th quarter of the Rose Bowl game vs SC.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

It will be interesting to see how they do without him, if he can't play due to his injury.

Yeah, I agree...it's a shame they have Kerry Collins in there. If they had a decent QB as a back up then there could be a QB controversy.
How long will VY be out?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by TheBigD

What I can't believe is the fact that you dedicate a whole thread trying to convince people here that Vince is "overrated." Why is it important to you that we think the same way you do? What is wrong with some of believing that he is a decent QB? Oh no, we are all ignorants and blind because we refuse to say Vince sucks.

Take it easy dude, people have different opinions. Yes what you presented were facts, but who cares about those numbers if the TEAM is winning. Poeple enjoyed watching Vick even if the Falcons lost.

Now, I am with you that his numbers don't look good. But if he wins a Super Bowl, don't you think he would probably get in to HOF? (take it easy I don't want you to have a heart-attack).

It's to discuss something different. We spew the same stuff over and over and over on this site, talking about Vince Young is something different. The fact that I believe that VY is overrated is just an added incentive.

You tell me to take it easy...I am. I find these kinds of threads to be fun. Have I attacked someone and not noticed or something? Not sure why you are telling me to take it easy. But see you said it again, about the TEAM winning. 11-9 since VY's arrival is hardly a team that should be considered winning.

There is no way he will ever win a SB as a starting QB. Maybe I shouldn't take such a firm stand, but I truely doubt he will do what it takes to be a great QB in this league. I am unsure of how you can make the connection between winning a super bowl and making the Hall. So will Dilfer / Brad Johnson / Mark Rypien make the Hall? Vince Young will have to completely change his game to ever be considered.

I just find it really funny that people are bedazzled by Young's ability to run, so much so they ignore his glaring shortcomings in the pocket. He's Vick part 2. (just a nicer version)
Look at Vick's stats...in 01 his team went 7-9 (granted he didn't have a lot of playing time in most of the games that year so he wasn't much of a factor), in 02 his team went 9-6-1, in 03 his team had 5 wins total, but he only played in 5 games (weeks 13-17) and went 3-2 in that span. 04 the Falcons under Vick went 11-5. So I guess all Vick does is win too. (when he's not in jail). The similarities are quite similar, yet most think Vick is a poor QB. Vick puts up better passing numbers and rushing numbers than VY, so why is everyone so eager to jump on VY's bandwagon, but jumped off Vick's bandwagon (before he was sent to jail anyway)?