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Old 08-15-2018, 04:04 PM   #61
GridIron26
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

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Originally Posted by skinsfaninok View Post
Dude quit on his teammates, I'm glad he is gone.
I totally get this mentality - I play football and I always get similar feeling whenever a teammate quit on us every time. However, I am looking through multiple lens, not just football player & football fan lens. I also look through mental health provider lens - I work in a community mental health center and I have Bachelor's in Clinical Psychology.

Anxiety and depression (or any other mental health issues) are not something anyone could simply brush off. Unfortunately, the society still believe in baseless stereotypes surrounding mental health. On almost daily basis, I see how anxiety and depression can affect people and their family/friends. Therefore, I have pretty good undersanding of where Cravens is coming from. To give you a glimpse of severe mental health can do to anyone - my coworker had a case where a patient is diagnosed with severe anxiety; one day, the anxiety got really bad for the patient to a point where he actually believed that his family is trying to take him out in woods to kill him, but the family was simply trying to bring him to my coworker's office due to intesified symptoms. The patient physically harmed his family and they had to call police on the patient. About one week later after being hospitalized, the patient recovered and quickly realized what he did to his family, and now he is filled with guiltness and constantly trying to make it up to his family..

The article also mentioned important facts such as symptoms Cravens experienced; his family and friends felt like Cravens was different person when he was experiencing symptoms; people who knew him for a while defended Cravens's passion for football. I can understand how easy it is for any readers to overlook or simply ignore those facts, however, as a person who have good knowledge regarding mental health, those facts are what convinced me that Cravens's mental health issues are significant than we, fans & NFL, thought it to be.

Please don't get me wrong, this is not to say that Cravens is innocent - how he handled this entire situation is exactly what caused issues for teammates and coaches. By being secretive about what he is going through, he basically left teammates to assume what he was trying to do and naturally, the teammates assumed the worst. I understand completely where Swearinger and teammates are coming from; Swearinger paid Cravens $36k for #36 and then few weeks later, Cravens walked away. How Cravens announced his decision to "retire" and take a break from football to his teammates and walked away from the team right before beginning of the season. Also, Cravens trying to avoid playing due to minor elbow injury while other players are playing with bigger injuries. Those actions are deal-breaker for almost every player and I do not hold it against Redskins players.

Based on the article, it is evident NFL do not have policies nor practice approaches that are friendly for mental health disorders; this pretty much reflect how society views mental health issues. If NFL has policies, are familiar with mental health disorders, and there are mental health providers ready for players; I am 95% certain this entire situation could have been avoided. This is exactly why I said it was bad situation for everyone involved.
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Old 08-15-2018, 06:11 PM   #62
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

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Originally Posted by Chico23231 View Post
zero sympathy and I find his excuses and blaming others to be inline with his generation. he takes no responsibility

typical pussy millennial

Him and Terrell Pryor are close personality wise

Dude you're losing your shit.
This has nothing to do with being a millennial.

He is a spoiled brat, they aren't exclusive to the millennial generation.
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Old 08-15-2018, 06:29 PM   #63
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

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Originally Posted by GridIron26 View Post
stuff
Mental Health is a serious subject but being a cry baby ass bitch is not anxiety.

Cravens is the guy who takes his pet hamster on a plane claiming it's his therapy hamster. Seriously, fuck these ass holes that fuck up therapy animals for people that really need them.

I was a fan of Cravens from the get go. He is a local kid that played hard at USC (University of Spoiled Children).
I've also followed him on social media and saw red flags before he played a snap for the Skins.

The guy wants to be a superstar like Sean or Ed Reed.
He wants the big money and fame.
He want to bang models and porn stars (Search Sua and Mia Khalifa NWFW probably so I can't post a link).

He gets anxiety when he can't live up to his standards.
This isn't a mental health issue. This is a personality defect from being a soft ass pussy.

This kid is coming off a lost season where his reputation was murdered.
What does he do first week in camp?
Post on instagram a picture of him holding up a 21 jersey with a captains patch. He is almost out of the league but he thinks he is going to be captain?

This isn't anxiety or depression. He is soft and folds when things get tough.


man this was a rant... Wasted 2nd round pick.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:45 PM   #64
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by GridIron26 View Post
I totally get this mentality - I play football and I always get similar feeling whenever a teammate quit on us every time. However, I am looking through multiple lens, not just football player & football fan lens. I also look through mental health provider lens - I work in a community mental health center and I have Bachelor's in Clinical Psychology.



Anxiety and depression (or any other mental health issues) are not something anyone could simply brush off. Unfortunately, the society still believe in baseless stereotypes surrounding mental health. On almost daily basis, I see how anxiety and depression can affect people and their family/friends. Therefore, I have pretty good undersanding of where Cravens is coming from. To give you a glimpse of severe mental health can do to anyone - my coworker had a case where a patient is diagnosed with severe anxiety; one day, the anxiety got really bad for the patient to a point where he actually believed that his family is trying to take him out in woods to kill him, but the family was simply trying to bring him to my coworker's office due to intesified symptoms. The patient physically harmed his family and they had to call police on the patient. About one week later after being hospitalized, the patient recovered and quickly realized what he did to his family, and now he is filled with guiltness and constantly trying to make it up to his family..



The article also mentioned important facts such as symptoms Cravens experienced; his family and friends felt like Cravens was different person when he was experiencing symptoms; people who knew him for a while defended Cravens's passion for football. I can understand how easy it is for any readers to overlook or simply ignore those facts, however, as a person who have good knowledge regarding mental health, those facts are what convinced me that Cravens's mental health issues are significant than we, fans & NFL, thought it to be.



Please don't get me wrong, this is not to say that Cravens is innocent - how he handled this entire situation is exactly what caused issues for teammates and coaches. By being secretive about what he is going through, he basically left teammates to assume what he was trying to do and naturally, the teammates assumed the worst. I understand completely where Swearinger and teammates are coming from; Swearinger paid Cravens $36k for #36 and then few weeks later, Cravens walked away. How Cravens announced his decision to "retire" and take a break from football to his teammates and walked away from the team right before beginning of the season. Also, Cravens trying to avoid playing due to minor elbow injury while other players are playing with bigger injuries. Those actions are deal-breaker for almost every player and I do not hold it against Redskins players.



Based on the article, it is evident NFL do not have policies nor practice approaches that are friendly for mental health disorders; this pretty much reflect how society views mental health issues. If NFL has policies, are familiar with mental health disorders, and there are mental health providers ready for players; I am 95% certain this entire situation could have been avoided. This is exactly why I said it was bad situation for everyone involved.


Well said
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Old 08-15-2018, 09:35 PM   #65
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by GridIron26 View Post
I totally get this mentality - I play football and I always get similar feeling whenever a teammate quit on us every time. However, I am looking through multiple lens, not just football player & football fan lens. I also look through mental health provider lens - I work in a community mental health center and I have Bachelor's in Clinical Psychology.

Anxiety and depression (or any other mental health issues) are not something anyone could simply brush off. Unfortunately, the society still believe in baseless stereotypes surrounding mental health. On almost daily basis, I see how anxiety and depression can affect people and their family/friends. Therefore, I have pretty good undersanding of where Cravens is coming from. To give you a glimpse of severe mental health can do to anyone - my coworker had a case where a patient is diagnosed with severe anxiety; one day, the anxiety got really bad for the patient to a point where he actually believed that his family is trying to take him out in woods to kill him, but the family was simply trying to bring him to my coworker's office due to intesified symptoms. The patient physically harmed his family and they had to call police on the patient. About one week later after being hospitalized, the patient recovered and quickly realized what he did to his family, and now he is filled with guiltness and constantly trying to make it up to his family..

The article also mentioned important facts such as symptoms Cravens experienced; his family and friends felt like Cravens was different person when he was experiencing symptoms; people who knew him for a while defended Cravens's passion for football. I can understand how easy it is for any readers to overlook or simply ignore those facts, however, as a person who have good knowledge regarding mental health, those facts are what convinced me that Cravens's mental health issues are significant than we, fans & NFL, thought it to be.

Please don't get me wrong, this is not to say that Cravens is innocent - how he handled this entire situation is exactly what caused issues for teammates and coaches. By being secretive about what he is going through, he basically left teammates to assume what he was trying to do and naturally, the teammates assumed the worst. I understand completely where Swearinger and teammates are coming from; Swearinger paid Cravens $36k for #36 and then few weeks later, Cravens walked away. How Cravens announced his decision to "retire" and take a break from football to his teammates and walked away from the team right before beginning of the season. Also, Cravens trying to avoid playing due to minor elbow injury while other players are playing with bigger injuries. Those actions are deal-breaker for almost every player and I do not hold it against Redskins players.

Based on the article, it is evident NFL do not have policies nor practice approaches that are friendly for mental health disorders; this pretty much reflect how society views mental health issues. If NFL has policies, are familiar with mental health disorders, and there are mental health providers ready for players; I am 95% certain this entire situation could have been avoided. This is exactly why I said it was bad situation for everyone involved.
First , this is a great post . With that said I will disagree with your last paragraph. Yes we always hope we can catch and help anyone in trouble but I am(personally) just getting tired of everyone blaming the NFL and blaming the game in general for all the problems they endure while playing this game. Did he have any sort of mental health issues before or in college, does anything like this run in his family and as the story says many of his teammates tried to talk to him and help him . Sorry but to say you are 95% certain this could have been avoided ...no ,not sold on that.
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:51 PM   #66
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantone View Post
First , this is a great post . With that said I will disagree with your last paragraph. Yes we always hope we can catch and help anyone in trouble but I am(personally) just getting tired of everyone blaming the NFL and blaming the game in general for all the problems they endure while playing this game. Did he have any sort of mental health issues before or in college, does anything like this run in his family and as the story says many of his teammates tried to talk to him and help him . Sorry but to say you are 95% certain this could have been avoided ...no ,not sold on that.

Quote:
Cravens says Gruden again told him to fight through it. Cravens says the coach asked him, “What are you going to do outside of football to make money? Your family depends on you, you need to take care of your family financially right now.”

Both times he met with Gruden, Cravens ended up agreeing with his coach, and left the meetings determined to keep going. “I would just bottle all those feelings up again until they would build up” he says. In an attempt to make things better, his family moved out to the East coast to alleviate his homesickness. It wasn’t enough.
This screams ignorant & classic "men do not cry" stereotype on Gruden's part; to me, this shows me that coaches did not go through any training to detect any kind of mental health issues. All it takes is a simple and basic training for anyone to detect something is going on and then he could refer Cravens to appropriate person for futher analysis.



Quote:
Because he was not allowed in the building, he was cut off from continuing his meniscus rehab with team trainers. Cravens and Peter Schaffer say that because he was on the left squad list, he was also cut off from accessing his NFL insurance and had to file through worker’s comp coverage. Cravens paid out of his own pocket for his flights and hotels when he went to see Collins. Per the CBA, players are permitted to seek second opinions and teams will cover the expenses for those second opinions, but the specific rules on whether that coverage remains in effect while a player is on the left squad list could not be determined. (An NFL spokesperson did not respond to multiple requests for clarification.)
No safeguard for players with mental health issues



Quote:
A source familiar with the situation says the team believed they were not allowed to contact Cravens because of his left squad designation, but that they made sure to provide him with contact info for the team doctors if he ever needed help. (An NFL spokesperson did not reply to multiple messages requesting clarification on whether the team was allowed to make contact with Cravens.)
This tells me NFL did not consider mental health issues when creating this policy. Team doctors are not adequate for mental health disorders; without doing research on NFL team doctors, I'm assuming that they specialize in sports injuries, nothing more.



Quote:
The NFL constitution adequately covers how to handle a player who left training camp without permission, or quit the team, and it outlines what to do with a player who has a serious football injury, but it doesn’t address the middle ground in which Cravens found himself. Further complicating matters, Cravens is adamant that his battle with post-concussion syndrome paired with his family issue made him snap and impulsively tell his teammates he was retiring. When viewed in light of Collins’s diagnosis, Cravens’s threats or eventual proclamation of retirement can’t be taken at face value.
Nothing futher needs to be said.


I find it comical how NFL always switch back and forth when it comes to business - NFL always said that NFL is all about business and acts like it when it comes to money & players' contracts, and cutting & trading players, and, and yet NFL always try skirt around other aspects of business such as taking care of its employees (players) and corporate social responsibilities.
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:53 PM   #67
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

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Originally Posted by jamf View Post
Mental Health is a serious subject but being a cry baby ass bitch is not anxiety.

Cravens is the guy who takes his pet hamster on a plane claiming it's his therapy hamster. Seriously, fuck these ass holes that fuck up therapy animals for people that really need them.

I was a fan of Cravens from the get go. He is a local kid that played hard at USC (University of Spoiled Children).
I've also followed him on social media and saw red flags before he played a snap for the Skins.

The guy wants to be a superstar like Sean or Ed Reed.
He wants the big money and fame.
He want to bang models and porn stars (Search Sua and Mia Khalifa NWFW probably so I can't post a link).

He gets anxiety when he can't live up to his standards.
This isn't a mental health issue. This is a personality defect from being a soft ass pussy.

This kid is coming off a lost season where his reputation was murdered.
What does he do first week in camp?
Post on instagram a picture of him holding up a 21 jersey with a captains patch. He is almost out of the league but he thinks he is going to be captain?

This isn't anxiety or depression. He is soft and folds when things get tough.


man this was a rant... Wasted 2nd round pick.
Lol I stand by my statement. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.. One thing we all must remind ourselves often when we see stuff on media and social media - things aren't always what we perceived it to be.
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Old 08-16-2018, 01:39 PM   #68
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

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Originally Posted by GridIron26 View Post
This screams ignorant & classic "men do not cry" stereotype on Gruden's part; to me, this shows me that coaches did not go through any training to detect any kind of mental health issues. All it takes is a simple and basic training for anyone to detect something is going on and then he could refer Cravens to appropriate person for futher analysis.
...
No safeguard for players with mental health issues
...
This tells me NFL did not consider mental health issues when creating this policy. Team doctors are not adequate for mental health disorders; without doing research on NFL team doctors, I'm assuming that they specialize in sports injuries, nothing more.
...
Nothing futher needs to be said.
...
I find it comical how NFL always switch back and forth when it comes to business - NFL always said that NFL is all about business and acts like it when it comes to money & players' contracts, and cutting & trading players, and, and yet NFL always try skirt around other aspects of business such as taking care of its employees (players) and corporate social responsibilities.
The only note that I would add is that a lot of the CBA notes about player contact outside of the building were put there as part of the players union's demands for less pressure.

The next CBA contract dispute should be interesting
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Old 08-16-2018, 01:42 PM   #69
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

Welp, we will see if Cravens is miraculous cured this season. Story not over, but here in DC...zero sympathy
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:16 PM   #70
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

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Originally Posted by GridIron26 View Post
This screams ignorant & classic "men do not cry" stereotype on Gruden's part; to me, this shows me that coaches did not go through any training to detect any kind of mental health issues. All it takes is a simple and basic training for anyone to detect something is going on and then he could refer Cravens to appropriate person for futher analysis.





No safeguard for players with mental health issues





This tells me NFL did not consider mental health issues when creating this policy. Team doctors are not adequate for mental health disorders; without doing research on NFL team doctors, I'm assuming that they specialize in sports injuries, nothing more.





Nothing futher needs to be said.


I find it comical how NFL always switch back and forth when it comes to business - NFL always said that NFL is all about business and acts like it when it comes to money & players' contracts, and cutting & trading players, and, and yet NFL always try skirt around other aspects of business such as taking care of its employees (players) and corporate social responsibilities.
With all due respect you don't know the real business world well. They screw over employees and eff off social issues all the time.The NFL is no different than any other multi BILLION dollar business. Like Employees in other business's that are Union especially they need to create change ,you don't always wait for the employer to do it.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:58 PM   #71
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

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With all due respect you don't know the real business world well. They screw over employees and eff off social issues all the time.The NFL is no different than any other multi BILLION dollar business. Like Employees in other business's that are Union especially they need to create change ,you don't always wait for the employer to do it.

In general, you are correct. This is my fourth year working behind scene in the CMHC, in other words, business operation within the CMHC. And I'm currently studying MBA so I am still learning about business world. Although, I don't believe the lack of understanding of business world and/or how business world is like in real life, should prevent anyone from trying to make changes in business world for better.

You said you are not convinced that the situation could have been avoided. I gave a quick explanation of how it could have been avoided, which is NFL putting in efforts to understand and then utilize resources for mental health issues. Whether NFL is willing to do that, and how multi-billion companies are currently being run is different point, I believe.
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Old 08-18-2018, 09:56 PM   #72
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

There are still some decent free agents available on D if any injuries occur. Navorro Bowman and Junior Galette, both 30 YO.
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Old 08-19-2018, 01:48 AM   #73
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

So, for my brothers bachelor party, I brought him to a Phillies game. We are fans being from the lehigh valley (flame on) but the hotel we booked happened to be where the eagles are staying after camp. Now, I'm. Skins fan through and through....but it's super cool to see the guys checking in after practice....not that I dont have respect for the process...but seeing the dudes rolling in after practice gives a new found respect for all the players and teams. Really cool experience. This whole post was a total aside.....
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:09 PM   #74
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

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So, for my brothers bachelor party, I brought him to a Phillies game. We are fans being from the lehigh valley (flame on) but the hotel we booked happened to be where the eagles are staying after camp. Now, I'm. Skins fan through and through....but it's super cool to see the guys checking in after practice....not that I dont have respect for the process...but seeing the dudes rolling in after practice gives a new found respect for all the players and teams. Really cool experience. This whole post was a total aside.....
Wait a minute! You took your brother to a ballgame for his bachelor party? Damn.
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:56 PM   #75
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Re: Around the NFL, Training Camp Style

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Wait a minute! You took your brother to a ballgame for his bachelor party? Damn.
Yeah I am an old fart but I would have rather enjoyed that instead of the usual thing that goes on,and a Great dinner at a Ruth Chris type place! My buddies were all around 21/22 years old when I got married and we were either to young or broke or both to do something like that!
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