US Infects Guatemalans With Syphilis During 1940s Experiments

[JoeRedskin]

It was horrible and wrong, but, with that said: Communism, National Socialism, Western European Liberal Democracy.

Feel free to rank them from best to worst in protecting individual rights and "doing good" in the world.

Look, we have many blotches in our past. Unlike many other societies, we are able to say "Oops - we screwed up". Sometimes it takes a while and there may be some hand ringing, but, ultimately, we are okay with fessing up to our imperfections, recognizing them as imperfections and trying to prevent them from happening again. Many in Japan, for example, are in denial about its "Rape of Nanking" (most acknowledge it).

We aren't perfect. At least we admit it.

[saden1]

For the crown of the most sinful nation in the history of the world America is in direct line of succession. Though knowing there are less perfect and more sinful members of the royal family ahead of us make one feel at ease.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

For the crown of the most sinful nation in the history of the world America is in direct line of succession. Though knowing there are less perfect and more sinful members of the royal family ahead of us make one feel at ease.

Not even close.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Not even close.

Only because you sell America short.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by saden1

Only because you sell America short.

Outside of our participation in WWI, WWII and the Korean War, please show me where we rank on the list of 20th Century atrocities.

In a way, it's rather disheartening to realize that we can't smugly blame the brutality of the century on the Communists, or the imperialists, or the Moslem fundamentalists, or the godless. Every major category of human has done it's share to boost the body count, so replacing, say, Moslem rulers with Christian rulers, or white rulers with black rulers, is not going to change it at all.

Twentieth Century Atlas - Top Ranked Atrocities

Yet, with that said, there is nothing on the list to show a major bloodletting caused by the US.

Comparisons of this despicable action to the Nazis devalues the evil caused by the dehumanization of "non-aryans" by German National Socialists and the concommit genocidal and meglomaniacal killings. The "ideal" of the Nazis was a world dominated by the Master Race; the "ideal" of the US, however, is a world where individual rights are respected and basic human rights are assured (Read the preamble and the Bill of Rights).

Fortunately, the Nazis failed in accomplishing their goal. Unfortunately, due to human imperfection, the US's goal is impossible to accomplish. In our world, utopian societies of any significant size do not, can not and will not ever exist.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by saden1

Only because you sell America short.

For all its many faults at least the U.S. has checks and balances in place, unlike most of the World.

[firstdown]

Come on we are talking about letting prisoners bang prostitutes to see what happens. I'm guessing we had a line around the jail. I fell sorry fo the mental patients because it sounds like they got injected and did not get the chance to bang the prostitutes.

[Hog1]

You Prankster....always ready for a party!

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Come on we are talking about letting prisoners bang prostitutes to see what happens. I'm guessing we had a line around the jail. I fell sorry fo the mental patients because it sounds like they got injected and did not get the chance to bang the prostitutes.

And this is why the world hates us...facepalm

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by hooskins

And this is why the world hates us...facepalm

No. The world hates us b/c we preach an ideal (respect for individual human rights and supremacy of the individual over the State) but, as a practical matter, fail to live up to this utopian ideal by our use of the necessary Real Politik that preserves the society preaching these ideals.

In other words, the rest of the world latches onto our flaws in order to justify the envy based hatred of our success. Simply put, we are an easy target b/c we are not (shockers) perfect, yet we preach and, as a society, assert an idealic goal.

It's easy to hate the Patriots.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

It was horrible and wrong, but, with that said: Communism, National Socialism, Western European Liberal Democracy.

Feel free to rank them from best to worst in protecting individual rights and "doing good" in the world.

Look, we have many blotches in our past. Unlike many other societies, we are able to say "Oops - we screwed up". Sometimes it takes a while and there may be some hand ringing, but, ultimately, we are okay with fessing up to our imperfections, recognizing them as imperfections and trying to prevent them from happening again. Many in Japan, for example, are in denial about its "Rape of Nanking" (most acknowledge it).

We aren't perfect. At least we admit it.

Yeah but acknowledging doesn't make it ok.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Yeah but acknowledging doesn't make it ok.

Of course not. Are any mainstream Americans asserting this was acceptable behavior?

We (collectively as a society) have made mistakes. Please, demonstrate any other society - that had the equivalent hegemony we have do today - that openly admitted the error of its past actions. I can't think of any (Disclaimer: I am wayyyyyyyyyyy drunk right now).

We are human. We make mistakes - both individually and corporately. Rather than attempting to justify these mistakes as a society (recognizing that the firstdown outliers exist in any large grouping of humanity), we (the citizens of the US) generally acknowledge our "mistakes" and strive to ensure that they do not happen again (haven't seen any Muslim internment camps lately a la' the Japanese camps of WWII). What more can you ask of a group of people? Perfection in all actions and decisions? Idiocy. Perfection is simply beyond our corporate ken. ("For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God": Romans, 3:23)

If you expect perfect harmony between the goals of a society and its actual actions, you are doomed to naysaying and bitterness. It is always good and right to seek and work for such harmony, but the expectation of such is foolish.

[htownskinfan]

Im not shocked or surprised by this revelation,hell I think you'd be naive to think the government is still not doing something else like this somewhere

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

Im not shocked or surprised by this revelation,hell I think you'd be naive to think the government is still not doing something else like this somewhere

Of course we are. Somewhere w/in the government/military, someone focused on a specific goal - that is broadly beneficial to the rest of us - is saying "Hey! This is a great way to accomplish the broad goal". In doing so, they, and others in power, fail to see the base wrongness of their actions or, if seeing the wrongness, justify the evil means as neccessary to satisfy an altruistic end.

Again, we are not perfect.

[firstdown]

If the rest of the world hates us then why the hell won't they stop coming here? Like Saden would say. I guess we need to try harder.