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Old 10-15-2019, 12:51 PM   #16
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

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Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
I heard that there were a bunch of illegal contact calls in a row.
6 consecutive plays with a penalty including 2 pass interferences one which happened on a 7 yard comeback route on 1st and 27
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:58 PM   #17
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

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Originally Posted by FrenchSkin View Post
Being an amateur zebra I also tend to side with them but this year I feel like the volume of flags thrown is way up (I'd like to have the actual stats on that).

Yes it's partly subjective but not to the extent people usually think it is: the rules are so well written that it takes away a big part of that subjectivity. Well at least it should.

And again, you're supposed to not call 100% of what you see but see a 100% of what you call... on some of these defensive holding calls, you're like "man if you actually saw the whole contact there's absolutely no way you could actually think it impacted the play, don't throw your flag if you just saw a glimpse of the sequence"...
I did some amateur zebra work myself in High School games, but it was back in the day when the game was easier to call. Even if the rules are well written, subjectivity comes into play. I haven't seen a modern rule book I only know what the announcers tell me. If you have a link to NFL rules explained by the NFL I would love to read up.
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:15 PM   #18
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

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I will take the dissenting opinion and side with the referees. It isn't an easy job. They are on field level, not watching a TV on a couch. There are 7 guys watching 22 men, who often are obstructing their view and moving quickly. Almost every call is subjective, what is holding, what is illegal use of hands, what is pass interference?



As soon as the NFL decided in the mid 70's to make the game more friendly to the offense calling games was no longer cut and dry. Believe it or not holding used to be easy to call, so was pass interference. The rules and their interpretations are constantly changing now. Anyone notice the new onside kick rules? The chances of a successful onside kick recovery is close to nil.Try to put yourselves in the refs shoes. Every year they have to relearn their job top to bottom. That can't be easy. I blame the NFL for the poor officiating, not the zebras.


I would add that we are sitting watching close ups in slow motion and high def. We have a better vantage point than the refs.

Having said that, they’re not off the hook and there have been awful calls week in and week out and it does feel like it’s gotten worse. And the flags do not seem equitably distributed - whether intentional or not, it causes folks to question objectivity, which is a bad thing.


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Old 10-15-2019, 01:25 PM   #19
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

New year, new complaints about the refs. It's the same old. Recency bias always makes it seem worse. Only thing the Saints game last year did was get us a worthless PI review where the calls are never overturned. Won't be surprised if that rule goes away next year.
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:51 PM   #20
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

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Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
I heard that there were a bunch of illegal contact calls in a row.
They absolutely walked Dallas down the field holding their hand on bogus call after exaggerated after plain bullshit calls. Guess what fuckers? Didn't work.
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:19 PM   #21
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

Also we have no idea what the zebras have been told behind closed doors. Plenty times in the past new rules or change in the interpretation of them has caused an initial rash of flags, then things have settled down after a couple games.

I wish we had year by year fan polls going back 50 years on how people rated the officiating. I would be willing to bet not many complained about the refs in 1969 then about the mid 70's it started climbing and it never stopped.
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:04 PM   #22
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

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I would be willing to bet not many complained about the refs in 1969 then about the mid 70's it started climbing and it never stopped.

What’s your logic there



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Old 10-16-2019, 03:51 AM   #23
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

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Originally Posted by Buffalo Bob View Post
I did some amateur zebra work myself in High School games, but it was back in the day when the game was easier to call. Even if the rules are well written, subjectivity comes into play. I haven't seen a modern rule book I only know what the announcers tell me. If you have a link to NFL rules explained by the NFL I would love to read up.
Actually I don't, all I can give you is NCAA rules translated in french, but I guess that's pointless ^^
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:02 AM   #24
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

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I would be willing to bet not many complained about the refs in 1969 then about the mid 70's it started climbing and it never stopped.
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Originally Posted by MTK View Post
What’s your logic there

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As an example:

In the mid to late 70's they outlawed the head slap and at the same time allowed offensive lineman a more liberal use of their hands while blocking. Prior to that an offensive lineman had to keep his hands closed, horizontally inside his own shoulder pads and not allowed extend his elbows in excess of a 90 degree angle.

Any violation of above and illegal use of hands could be called. It was one of those infractions that is very easy to spot even if you are standing on the sidelines and the play is ran from the opposite hash mark. Not much subjectivity was needed on whether or not a blocker illegally used his hands.

I was actually playing in High School when the head slap was outlawed and they started allowing offensive lineman to use their hands more. We were actually told the best way to avoid an illegal use of hands penalty while blocking was to grab your own jersey when engaged.

My point was under the old rules and their interpretation whether or not something deserved a penalty was black and white plus could be spotted 30 yards away. Now there are a lot of gray areas, especially with what offensive lineman can get away with. To accurately see if a lineman committed a foul under today's rules a referee has to be standing right on top of him.

In summation as the rules have evolved the game has become more difficult to accurately officiate by the book which will lead to more questionable calls and non calls. Everything used to be cut and dry, it isn't anymore. I could go on and on.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:46 AM   #25
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

Guess what? Guess who Sunday’s officiating crew for our game is?
Clete Blakeman and his crew who officiated the Packers vs Lions, what luck we
have.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:01 AM   #26
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

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Originally Posted by Buffalo Bob View Post

In the mid to late 70's they outlawed the head slap and at the same time allowed offensive lineman a more liberal use of their hands while blocking. Prior to that an offensive lineman had to keep his hands closed, horizontally inside his own shoulder pads and not allowed extend his elbows in excess of a 90 degree angle.
For me High school was 70-74 and College 75-77. As D lineman I loved the head slap it worked for me , I also loved to tackle the shoulder pads(horse collar) . In those days you were allowed to tackle a player /ball carrier by any means necessary exempt the face mask. The good old days and I swear there were less injuries back then too! point is you're right wasn't near as much bitching about Refs as now.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:55 AM   #27
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

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For me High school was 70-74 and College 75-77. As D lineman I loved the head slap it worked for me , I also loved to tackle the shoulder pads(horse collar) . In those days you were allowed to tackle a player /ball carrier by any means necessary exempt the face mask. The good old days and I swear there were less injuries back then too! point is you're right wasn't near as much bitching about Refs as now.
You're about 4 years older than me. I was stuck somewhat in the middle on liking the rules as by trade I was a middle linebacker in High School and College but was a back up guard and tackle, so I gave head slaps but had to take them also. It was pretty screwed up playing O-line as you could not extend your arms but the the dude you were trying to block can beat you in the head. Playing defense was fun in those days. I could not imagine doing it now, especially trying to tackle a QB. I think you are supposed to pick them up and lay them down while placing a pillow under their head.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:47 AM   #28
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

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Originally Posted by Buffalo Bob View Post
As an example:



In the mid to late 70's they outlawed the head slap and at the same time allowed offensive lineman a more liberal use of their hands while blocking. Prior to that an offensive lineman had to keep his hands closed, horizontally inside his own shoulder pads and not allowed extend his elbows in excess of a 90 degree angle.



Any violation of above and illegal use of hands could be called. It was one of those infractions that is very easy to spot even if you are standing on the sidelines and the play is ran from the opposite hash mark. Not much subjectivity was needed on whether or not a blocker illegally used his hands.



I was actually playing in High School when the head slap was outlawed and they started allowing offensive lineman to use their hands more. We were actually told the best way to avoid an illegal use of hands penalty while blocking was to grab your own jersey when engaged.



My point was under the old rules and their interpretation whether or not something deserved a penalty was black and white plus could be spotted 30 yards away. Now there are a lot of gray areas, especially with what offensive lineman can get away with. To accurately see if a lineman committed a foul under today's rules a referee has to be standing right on top of him.



In summation as the rules have evolved the game has become more difficult to accurately officiate by the book which will lead to more questionable calls and non calls. Everything used to be cut and dry, it isn't anymore. I could go on and on.

I would say since the first time someone put on a black and white striped shirt and started calling penalties people complained about the refs.

I can pull up discussions here from 10 years ago saying the refs are worse than ever.

Next year at this time we’ll have the same complaints about penalties and how it’s “the worst ever”.



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Old 10-16-2019, 01:09 PM   #29
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

I dont know what the NFL can do about the terrible calls,I dont think there's anything they can do except putting more officials on the field or making every play reviewable.
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:21 PM   #30
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Re: NFL Referee Problem

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I dont know what the NFL can do about the terrible calls,I dont think there's anything they can do except putting more officials on the field or making every play reviewable.
They haven't added any officials since the mid 70's when they started to make the game harder to officiate.
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