Tax bill

[MTK]

Let’s move the tax bill talk here... one of the things I found most obnoxious about it is they tacked on drilling in the arctic. We’re well on our way to ruining this planet, a pretty major fucking problem for everyone left or right

[mooby]

They'll be dead by the time it matters. So it won't matter to them.

I find it pretty sad arctic drilling, abortion, and health care had to be mashed in, those are all issues deserving of their own platform. Another reason I hate the rider system in Congress. Unfortunately nothing will be done about it (like congressional term limits) because the people making the rules would be the people directly impacted by the rules.

[NC_Skins]

[MTK]

[BaltimoreSkins]

There is very little evidence that increase/decrease in corporate taxes has a significant impact on wages. So a 1% corporate tax increases drops wages 1% at most. What happens to my wages when we have a 10% drop in corporate taxes and then increase my taxes? My wages won't be going up enough to offset that balance.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

There is very little evidence that increase/decrease in corporate taxes has a significant impact on wages. So a 1% corporate tax increases drops wages 1% at most. What happens to my wages when we have a 10% drop in corporate taxes and then increase my taxes? My wages won't be going up enough to offset that balance.

There is a lot of evidence that shows lower corporate taxes doesn't translate to increased investment or higher salaries. Hell, many corporations have been using loop holes to evade taxes the past 20 years. They're stuffing cash in off-shore accounts to avoid taxes. Meanwhile, the workers are getting fucked and not seeing anything to note. The only people that make out are the stock holders, who are generally rich elite assholes to begin with.

The only way to get salaries to rise is to forcefully raise them. Supply side economics has never worked. Ever. It never ever will. Demand drives economies, and middle class america drives the demand. Give them the cash, the economy will boom. Give it to rich assholes, the economy will eventually crash. All one needs is to look at history. How fucking stupid are people? Rhetorical question.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by mooby

They'll be dead by the time it matters. So it won't matter to them.

I find it pretty sad arctic drilling, abortion, and health care had to be mashed in, those are all issues deserving of their own platform. Another reason I hate the rider system in Congress. Unfortunately nothing will be done about it (like congressional term limits) because the people making the rules would be the people directly impacted by the rules.

I agree with everything you said!

[BaltimoreSkins]

Some of the deductions they are eliminating are flat out a war on the middle class and young people: student loan deduction, personal exemption, and state and local taxes will all hit young and middle class cohorts heavily. IMO this bill:
a. reduces college educated population in particular those at the graduate level
b. causes students who want to continue education take out more student loans to offset tax breaks
c. is counter intuitive to a conservative philosophy deducting state and local taxes allows states to have higher tax rates and therefore provide more state level services than federal services. If a state is willing to use its own money and not rely as heavily on the federal government you would think conservatives would be for it not against it.

[Giantone]

This is a good break down of the Paul Ryan's tax bill!


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...x-bill-n827856

[mooby]

Really, our only hope is that Chico and the rest of his supporters will flip in 5 years when they realize the middle class cuts were only temporary and the corporate cuts were permanent. According to the analysis in about 5 years or so (should be just enough time for Chico to forget Trump/Congress is responsible for this) the middle class will see their taxes go up.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by mooby

Really, our only hope is that Chico and the rest of his supporters will flip in 5 years when they realize the middle class cuts were only temporary and the corporate cuts were permanent. According to the analysis in about 5 years or so (should be just enough time for Chico to forget Trump/Congress is responsible for this) the middle class will see their taxes go up.

I’m just waiting to see how the tax bill shakes out but there are certainly somethings that aren’t perfect with it. Regardless, it will never be 100% to my liking because I simply don’t blindly agree with whatever the right or left does.

Certainly if in the 5-6 years it doesn’t do a good job, then yeah everyone should be held accountable. I hope it works, just like I hoped Obamacare would work. But it didn’t work and yet nobody really wants to hold anybody accountable for that....

Speaking of Obamacare...the graphs of opioid deaths and spike prescription drug addiction as Obamacare went into effect....really interesting stuff that predictably no one wants to talk about. Correlation? Yeah certainly a story there that media has avoided.


Look, I aint mad at y’all, just trying to give you something to think about. These issues are not cut and dry or easy. Glad we have a forum to discuss

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I’m just waiting to see how the tax bill shakes out but there are certainly somethings that aren’t perfect with it. Regardless, it will never be 100% to my liking because I simply don’t blindly agree with whatever the right or left does.

Certainly if in the 5-6 years it doesn’t do a good job, then yeah everyone should be held accountable. I hope it works, just like I hoped Obamacare would work. But it didn’t work and yet nobody really wants to hold anybody accountable for that....

Speaking of Obamacare...the graphs of opioid deaths and spike prescription drug addiction as Obamacare went into effect....really interesting stuff that predictably no one wants to talk about. Correlation? Yeah certainly a story there that media has avoided.

So what do the people do that are taking it up the ass from the tax bill for the next 5-6 years?Why should I have to cover the rich or corporations?

Obamacare did work,are there problems ,yes,but fix the problems don't dump the whole thing!

Chico, what fucking flavor of kool/aid are you drinking to even suggest that Obamacare had anything at all to do with a spike in drug addiction.You pull a trump move by making a suggestion that's not true at all and then blame the media for not covering something you made up? WTF???

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Giantone

So what do the people do that are taking it up the ass from the tax bill for the next 5-6 years?Why should I have to cover the rich or corporations?

Obamacare did work,are there problems ,yes,but fix the problems don't dump the whole thing!

Chico, what fucking flavor of kool/aid are you drinking to even suggest that Obamacare had anything at all to do with a spike in drug addiction.You pull a trump move by making a suggestion that's not true at all and then blame the media for not covering something you made up? WTF???

G1 I laughed pretty hard at your opening line. Nice one.

Obamacare worked for very, very few and didn’t do what it was supposed to do. I’m not gonna get into, but keep thinking everything is fine with it.

G1, look at the spike of opioid deaths during the obama adminstration and the addiction issues we have today. It certainly didn’t start in the obama adminstration but the healthcare legislation may have intensified and expanded the issue. I’ve read a couple things about the issue, but it’s certainly been overlooked largely by the media...I just wonder why?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I’m just waiting to see how the tax bill shakes out but there are certainly somethings that aren’t perfect with it. Regardless, it will never be 100% to my liking because I simply don’t blindly agree with whatever the right or left does.

Certainly if in the 5-6 years it doesn’t do a good job, then yeah everyone should be held accountable. I hope it works, just like I hoped Obamacare would work. But it didn’t work and yet nobody really wants to hold anybody accountable for that....

Speaking of Obamacare...the graphs of opioid deaths and spike prescription drug addiction as Obamacare went into effect....really interesting stuff that predictably no one wants to talk about. Correlation? Yeah certainly a story there that media has avoided.


Look, I aint mad at y’all, just trying to give you something to think about. These issues are not cut and dry or easy. Glad we have a forum to discuss

You are right, it's never as cut and dry as we want it to be. I'm not happy about the rise of opoid deaths either, or the rise of fentanyl, or the fact that prescription drugs seem to be the gateway to heroin abuse and everyone ignores it because script drug companies are basically untouchable now. Just not sure what the solution to it is because as long as healthcare continues to be a profitable industry like everything else in America, it will be a problem.

[Giantone]

No ,he isn't .Chico isn't even in the same ballpark.He wants to blame someone ,anyone and so it's Obamacare and the media ,he is no different than trump.As for the media you're dead wrong on that I know they have been writing stories for years and nothing has happen. Opiods ...while tragic and sad are just the next best thing in the drug war that has been going on for years. Do I need to post the articles about dead friends and children of dead friends to prove my point?


Please enlighten me on how making sure as many Americans as possible can have health care can be responsible for the opiod crises?

Chico, ACA = Affordable Care Act ,it did what it meant to do,insure more Americans then ever before,please show me where I say it's fine? I'll wait.
Short of a Universal Health System it was better than what we had.