McNabb, case study-coaching or talent at qb?

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

After seeing what AJ Feeley did in Miami after leaving Reid, seeing what McNabb has done after leaving Reid, and seeing the transformation Vick has made since joining Andy Reid, it's probably time to give a ton of credit to Big Red as a developer of QBs.

Kolb wont be bad..Not only that, but he pretty much has all say in personel moves...great moves by the FO.

[SirClintonPortis]

Being benched TWICE in your starting career is embarassing.
Being traded to a division rival is embarassing.
Being owned by Rex Grossman is embarassing. Whether or not this should be the case is a seperate matter, but w/e.

Mc39inwaistline's TQBR
2008: 51.9
2009: 57.3
2010: 41.0

[skinsfaninok]

Mcnabb is done might as well start ponder

[Ruhskins]

I think McNabb had talent, but also was helped tremendously by a system that helped him succeed. When it seemed that McNabb was on his way out, the best situation for him was to go to a team that had all the pieces there, except for a QB. Going to a team like ours or this year's Vikings is not a good situation for him. This sort of reminds me of Favre's stint with the Jets and then with the Vikes. The Jets were rebuilding when Favre got traded there, and he wasn't that successful. Yet when he went to the Vikes the following year, he had a good o-line, great running game (AP), very good WR (Rice), and a top defense.

McNabb's talent + Reid's system for many years resulted in McNabb being a top caliber QB. His declining abilities were not good enough to carry a rebuilding team last year, and it will certainly not carry this year's Vikes. I still think the McNabb trade was terrible and may have set the franchise bakc for a year. I'm glad he's gone.

[NC_Skins]

I also want to mention exactly why McNabb has diminished. His whole career, his ability to run has kept him afloat at the top of the QB list in the NFC. As the years passed and injuries mounted, his ability to run has all but vanished which is why he's struggling as a QB now. He never had the skills to be a top flight QB to begin with (accuracy, pocket presence, intelligence, quick release) that the others have. (Manning, Rivers, Brady, Brees) It's not McNabb's age (34) that is making his decline show. Look no further than the 39-40 year old Brett Farve almost pulling out a MVP to debunk that notion. If your whole game relied on your wheels, expect a lower shelf life for those types of QBs. This is why I'm so dead set against the "run first" kind of QBs that come into the league. That might get you far in the NCAA and win you some games in the NFL, but to really progress and prolong your career, you need to win games from the pocket with the abilities I mention prior.

[Swarley]

Ask yourselves what top QB doesnt benefit from the system he's in.

McNabb has just lost it in my opinion. I'm sure he probably has one or two big games left that'll make people think he's still a viable starting QB but that's it.

[redsk1]

First off let's reserve judgement after a few games or more.

I will say that DM has been a great QB in a great system for a long time. Hes not the most accurate of passers but he makes up for it w/ incredible athletic ability. Shiftiness. The ability to slide out of trouble, buy time, run, step up and hit receivers downfield. That's his game. Of course the Andy Reid system is excellent and put him in positions to succeed too.

I still think in the right system he can be a top notch QB. He's not old. He's still mobile. I don't know enough about Minn's system to offer an opinion on it.

The guy didn't fit in our system. Bad trade but at least we admitted as much and moved on.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I also want to mention exactly why McNabb has diminished. His whole career, his ability to run has kept him afloat at the top of the QB list in the NFC. As the years passed and injuries mounted, his ability to run has all but vanished which is why he's struggling as a QB now. He never had the skills to be a top flight QB to begin with (accuracy, pocket presence, intelligence, quick release) that the others have. (Manning, Rivers, Brady, Brees) It's not McNabb's age (34) that is making his decline show. Look no further than the 39-40 year old Brett Farve almost pulling out a MVP to debunk that notion. If your whole game relied on your wheels, expect a lower shelf life for those types of QBs. This is why I'm so dead set against the "run first" kind of QBs that come into the league. That might get you far in the NCAA and win you some games in the NFL, but to really progress and prolong your career, you need to win games from the pocket with the abilities I mention prior.

I agree that McNabb's running ability made him successful. But like running backs, the more running he did the more it took a toll on his body which made him less effective as a runner. It also made him less effective as a passer because he no longer was able to extend passing plays like he was when he was younger. There seems to be a correlation with increasing age and decreasing skills, but it's only because USUALLY (older) age means more mileage and wear and tear.

[ashvirtually]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

People hound Rush Limbaugh way back then for his assessment on McNugget, but he was spot on. (even backed up by Steve Young that day)

What?

Rush said all his success came from some ill-defined, ill-conceived "notion of hope the NFL has for black players". I'm fairly certain he pulled that load from his arse.

That's a FAR cry from any of the points you made.

Naw, Rush wasn't spot-on about anything.

[warriorzpath]

Also that's why some college qbs are able to rely on their running ability to be successful. Because obviously, those qbs aren't as beat up and have "young legs".

[Ruhskins]

I am trying to think which QBs have successfully transitioned from one team to another. Drew Brees comes to mind, going from San Diego to becoming an elite QB in New Orleans (I don't know if there was much of a difference between the two systems). Favre one-year stint in Minny could be one...but that was only a year. I guess maybe Brad Johnson's move to Tampa could be considered. Can anybody else think of other examples?

[warriorzpath]

A good test may be Roethlisberger- to see if he declines suddenly for no obvious reason.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by ashvirtually

What?

Rush said all his success came from some ill-defined, ill-conceived "notion of hope the NFL has for black players". I'm fairly certain he pulled that load from his arse.

That's a FAR cry from any of the points you made.

Naw, Rush wasn't spot-on about anything.

I think you need to review exactly what Rush said. He said no such a thing.




His point is that he was overrated and he got credit for much of what the defense was doing. It's spot on.

Listen to Steve Young at the end.

Now his point about the media/NFL wanting him to succeed because he's black? Well, that part he pulled out of his ass.

[warriorzpath]

Yeah, I never got why Limbaugh was ever on TV to do NFL analysis in the first place.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Yeah, I never got why Limbaugh was ever on TV to do NFL analysis in the first place.

Same reason they decided Dennis Miller would be a good MNF commentator. Stupidity.