The Obama Years- A GOP love story

[tshile]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

The President did NOT have a televised address to the country.

Which I already agreed with you on...

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

The President did NOT have FAA technicians on the ground in the Ukraine this morning, waiting to gain entry to the crash site.

Fox News is reporting that there are investigators that will be deployed. How many, from which agencies, and when they'll be at the crash site is not public information, but we are sending people....

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

The President did NOT meet with bipartisan members of congress while at the fund raiser.

Right... the fund raiser again... but you have no idea if he did or didn't before or after the fund raiser.... That's my point... you're using the fund raiser to take jabs and insinuate something you, I, and everyone else has zero clue about.

I wouldn't put it past this president to shirk off his responsibilities in this situation, don't get me wrong. I've yet to see this president display anything close to traits of strong leadership.

I just can't help but chuckle at how this stuff goes every time there is an issue... it doesn't seem to matter who the president is, everyone's aware of everything going on behind the scenes and becomes a critic all the sudden...

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

The President did NOT in his initial public statement (or subsequent ones that I am aware of) condemn military force against commercial airlines and call publicly for all sides to acknowledge that safe passage of civilian airlines is an unmoveable fact.

Yes some things happen in the backdrop, but THIS incident should have been, imo, handle openly and forcefully within moments of assessing that it was a military rocket hitting a civilian airline, and the world knows it was not.

The President's public statement was yesterday somewhere around 1 or 2 PM. I do not recall there being significant evidence (publicly) available at the time that said it was indeed a missile, but maybe I wasn't paying enough attention.

As we speak the White House has announced that the President is preparing to address the nation...

It seems like on some of these points you're being critical just for the sake of being critical. Like I said... for many of the things you suggest as 'better' ways of dealing with this, you have no way of knowing it's not already being done. For others... you haven't allowed very much time, or for very much fact searching, to write off those actions as not being taken yet.

[tshile]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Im/We are outraged over the airliner, why are we not? The shooting of the plane is a rally point, you honor the victims by ending all this foolishness...I dont get fake outrage, 9/11 was feign outrage to invade Afganistan and stop the Taliban? Why cant we seek justice, do the investigation and stop the war in the Ukraine? See what i mean is this generation cant hold focus, its instant gratification and then move on. Internet shaming wont work on Russia.

Right... because everything I've talked about has to do with instant gratification and internet shaming.

When you're ready to stop taking jabs at me for asking simple and basic questions (that you've still yet to answer) let me know. I'll continue the conversation.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by tshile

Right... because everything I've talked about has to do with instant gratification and internet shaming.

When you're ready to stop taking jabs at me for asking simple and basic questions (that you've still yet to answer) let me know. I'll continue the conversation.

Post 197 and 203 is in response to you question.

[tshile]

Fair enough

I agree whole heatedly with your post 197.

But as I said, I take some issues with your other post. Which is not at all intended to suggest that's a bad way to handle it, or the wrong way. Just that I see how it's not a 100% good way of doing it, and wonder whether there is a better way.

Off the top of my head - maybe consider that the downing of this airliner was an accident and that there would be some good to be done by approaching Russia sincerely. The good being done would be cooperation on all sides to investigate and bring people accountable. Maybe that would open the door to a resolution of the entire Ukraine/Russia issue? Probably not, but possibly?

That may be entirely naive, and I recognize that. I just can't help but wonder

[CRedskinsRule]

President Obama is about to give a statement on it. Whether it will be Hallmark condolences and fluff, or substantive and confirmable actions will let us further this discussion, I would think.

Edit:
I would give the President a decent mark. I think he addressed several points. I don't think it went far enough, but I can also accept that he wasn't going to.

[Chico23231]

Interesting tidbit of the plane crash...did anyone hear how the President first heard about the incident? Him and Putin were on the phone together yesterday morning about the sanctions and Putin mentioned it to Obama as the convo was ending. Just amazing.

Also amazing is the rumor the plane black boxes are already in Russia. why is that?

[Chico23231]

BBC News - MH17 crash: Ukraine releases alleged intercepts

Pretty damning evidence.

Cossacks are an ethic group basically bred for military combat. They pretty much come out the womb ready to fight. Kinda badasses

[tshile]

The evidence is piling up as to who did it... the only important remaining question to me is whether or not it was an accident.

If they misidentified a plane in a war zone and took action, then we should be looking to bring charges to those responsible and whatever punishment the international courts can do.

If it was intentional then it's going to be hard to separate Russia from the people that pushed the trigger... things could get quite messy...

[CRedskinsRule]

Sometimes headlines are misleading, but in this case it's a direct quote from the Prime Minister of Turkey, and a bit crazy for a President who came in to make the US more "likeable" in the world

I no longer talk to Obama: Turkey's Erdogan

[tshile]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Sometimes headlines are misleading, but in this case it's a direct quote from the Prime Minister of Turkey, and a bit crazy for a President who came in to make the US more "likeable" in the world

I no longer talk to Obama: Turkey's Erdogan

When you look at the information that's come from 'insiders' recently, including books, it's not all the surprising.

This president seems to be... absent when it comes to foreign policy issues.

[HailGreen28]

[NC_Skins]

I get a chuckle out of the people for bashing Obama for how's he's handled the plane being shot down. Let's revisit history to back in the Cold War when Russia shot down a Korean plane. How did the glorious Ronald Reagan handle this? I'll let Jon Stewart sum this up.


https://screen.yahoo.com/comedy-cent...0755.html?vp=1

[tshile]

Dianne Feinstein publicly said today that the world would probably very much appreciate an increase in President Obama's attention...

I'm far from an Obama basher... but when your own party leaders are publicly calling you out for not giving two craps about foreign policy issues... after gate's book, and other things that have been leaked to the media...

Pretty bad.

PS - Anyone taking this to mean something about Kerry/Clinton? You want one of them in the oval office after all this?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I get a chuckle out of the people for bashing Obama for how's he's handled the plane being shot down. Let's revisit history to back in the Cold War when Russia shot down a Korean plane. How did the glorious Ronald Reagan handle this? I'll let Jon Stewart sum this up.


https://screen.yahoo.com/comedy-cent...0755.html?vp=1

You and Stewart must have no historical knowledge of Reagan's economic, military and political actions that ultimately destroyed the USSR. Let's also remember the USSR then and now are completely different. Reagan didn't want to launch into a full scale war with the Soviets when he knew the economic pressure, along with the US military build-up and threat of SDI were working to destroy the USSR....without the sacrifice of tens of thousands of American lives that would've been lost in an all-out war with them.

Contrast Reagan's actions prior to KAL 007 with Obama's open-mike statement to having more "flexibility" to work with Putin and the USSR after the 2012 election and you see the result is an aggressive Russia that has no fear whatsoever of a strong US response to their aggressive actions in the region. US weakness only emboldens our enemies and those that want to expand their power through evil and aggression against their neighbors.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You and Stewart must have no historical knowledge of Reagan's economic, military and political actions that ultimately destroyed the USSR. Let's also remember the USSR then and now are completely different. Reagan didn't want to launch into a full scale war with the Soviets when he knew the economic pressure, along with the US military build-up and threat of SDI were working to destroy the USSR....without the sacrifice of tens of thousands of American lives that would've been lost in an all-out war with them.

Contrast Reagan's actions prior to KAL 007 with Obama's open-mike statement to having more "flexibility" to work with Putin and the USSR after the 2012 election and you see the result is an aggressive Russia that has no fear whatsoever of a strong US response to their aggressive actions in the region. US weakness only emboldens our enemies and those that want to expand their power through evil and aggression against their neighbors.

SS33 you sum it up well. Reagan was extremely strong against Russia, I thought everybody knew that...