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Dunbar demanding trade or release

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Old 02-11-2020, 01:01 PM   #46
BigHairedAristocrat
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

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Originally Posted by sandtrapjack View Post
Because ownership is not accountable to that same standard. Player can get a 5 year extension, then the team can release him 2 years into it if they want. Unless the NFL goes the same route as other professional sports with fully guaranteed contracts, this will continue.
Agree, but I also see the teams perspective in not wanting to do this - look at how screwed we are because Alex Smith got severely hurt with so much guaranteed money - now multiply that by all the other injuries teams have and players who underperform. Every team would be crippled with enormous amounts of dead cap money from players who were not contributing to the team.

I think the smartest thing for all sides would be to negotiate shorter contracts with a greater percentage of the contract guaranteed. Or perhaps, the NFL could create some cap-offset for injured players, so they didn't count against the cap. Then, teams and players would be negotiating purely on a basis of talent.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:14 PM   #47
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

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Originally Posted by SunnySide View Post
Entering last yr of contract + little guaranteed $ = probable holdout

Couple of thoughts

- 18: numbers of games played out of the possible 32 last 2 years. Is he a guy that will play through pain? Will he play at 80% or does he personally require him being 95% and above?

- 28 years old when 2020 starts, that not old.

- 56.9% completion rate against this season. That is excellent.

- 52: times targeted last season, thats low, 77th rank among CBs, could this mean J No just left to many guys open so a QB didnt have to look his way? That his sample size is too small to forecast future success comfortably? or is it just bc he only played 11 games.

--------------------------

What I dont understand is the timing. Why now? RR just meet his staff for the first time on Monday Feb 10. He and his agent had to know that the new regime would need some time to get caught up and then address contract concerns.

Initially I thought this issue of not having him resigned already was another Bruce failure to do basic communication with players. But then he says they did talk previously but he hasnt talked to the new regime yet.

Perhaps he and his agent wanted to get his name circulating out there as early as possible so teams may consider acquiring him as they also come up with a FA plan.

--------------

My bottom line -

(1) I like Dunbar, I dont see him as the No. 2 overall best corner in the NFL like PPF does but I do acknowledge that they know more than I do with my fan eye ball test.

If he wants a 5/65M/40G ... I think I would maybe might do that but that would really be stretching me. Much more comfortable at like a 4/40/30 deal. Which who knows, maybe he would have taken last year
(2) I dont blame a player for contract efforts if they are going into their final year.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-ran...hrough-week-17
I agree and I don't think the market would give him that 5/65 million simply based on his recent injury history. But Dunbar on 3.25 million this year...he is an extension-earned type player on this team. I would make him an offer.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:20 PM   #48
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

I agree.
This little part of the Washington Post article sums it up in the business side of things. Where this conversation needs to be. Not on the emotional fan side:
"The 27-year-old Dunbar, who joined the Redskins as an undrafted free agent in 2015, had a breakout effort in 2019. He emerged as the team’s top cornerback and was ranked the No. 2 cornerback in the NFL by analytics website Pro Football Focus. Dunbar posted a career-high four interceptions in 11 games, but he suffered a hamstring injury and finished the season on injured reserve for the second consecutive year.
If Dunbar suffered another serious injury before he landed a new deal, it would have a significant impact on his bargaining power with either the Redskins or another team. The 20 highest-paid cornerbacks in the NFL average at least $10 million per year, with the Miami Dolphins’ Xavien Howard leading the league with an average of $15.05 million. Redskins cornerback Josh Norman is No. 2 at $15 million."
Dunbar is just laying the ground work on negotiations and why he will not be at OTA's. I think we all remember our MLB suffering a severe knee injury on first day of OTA's last year. I do not blame him for his business stance.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:34 PM   #49
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

I don’t blame him either, but I also don’t blame the team if they’re reluctant to give him big money based on his injury history. Should be interesting to see how this goes with Rivera.


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Old 02-11-2020, 01:41 PM   #50
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

I really do think we will have forgotten about this by the time the season starts. Its a slow part of the year, so we all spend more time discussing and debating things which are ultimately barely news-worthy.
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Old 02-11-2020, 01:57 PM   #51
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

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Give his agent permission to seek a trade with another team. If there is value there we should trade him, if not, he plays for us or sits.
pretty much
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:07 PM   #52
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

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I don’t blame him either, but I also don’t blame the team if they’re reluctant to give him big money based on his injury history. Should be interesting to see how this goes with Rivera.
Agreed. I don't blame Dunbar for seeking out a new contract. That being said he signed an extension a couple years back so it's not like he's making the league minimum. I leave it in RR's hands.

Most likely scenario - Dunbar has 2 INTs in SB LV (not for us).
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Old 02-11-2020, 07:40 PM   #53
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

Dunbar has seen so many of his fellow players, ON THIS TEAM, get hurt. If you don’t have guaranteed money in your contract, and you get hurt, you get NOTHING. Dunbar is getting $3.5 million and CB’s at his level (elite) get $10 mill. So he’s trying to protect himself. I get it.

Dunbar’s a player we REALLY want to keep. He was a nobody UDFA who changed positions and is now the second-best CB in the NFL. The Redskins got him super-cheap and now he’s going to be paid. Let’s get him signed up and move on.

With our upcoming fierce pass rush (with Chase) our DB’s are going to have a field day. With the release of all the players who were OVERPAID and did not play or grossly underperform (Norman, Richardson, Davis, Reed, McCoy, etc) we will have cap money to keep our best players and build a winning culture. Sign up Dunbar and pay him what he has earned.

I think it’s a good chance we will bring back Kendall Fuller. Bring him back at CB to see if he can recover his mojo that he had with us. Just a cheap, one-year contract. What’s not to like?




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Old 02-11-2020, 07:46 PM   #54
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

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Originally Posted by jamf View Post
Let's not overreact.
Dude is just trying to get paid.

You can't discard every player that isn't a choirboy and expect to win.
The best coaches can get the best out of these diva players.

The only culture that matters is a winning culture.
While I agree with you , I will give you a little something . Two years ago , when The Skins decided to not pick up the option on J. Doctson ( WR ) , we were at a party with a guy who worked with the Skins Med/Training staff . After a few cold ones , he finally answered us about Doctson . His reply …. biggest crybaby he had been around at NFL level . Next biggest crybaby … Dunbar . Maybe he is not really ready for camp RR / Del Rio ?
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:36 PM   #55
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

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While I agree with you , I will give you a little something . Two years ago , when The Skins decided to not pick up the option on J. Doctson ( WR ) , we were at a party with a guy who worked with the Skins Med/Training staff . After a few cold ones , he finally answered us about Doctson . His reply …. biggest crybaby he had been around at NFL level . Next biggest crybaby … Dunbar . Maybe he is not really ready for camp RR / Del Rio ?


Difference between Doctson and Dunbar was that Doctson was a total draft bust, and he was a first round draft pick at that. Not even sure if he’s in the NFL at all. He was drafted high and just never came close to filling his potential.

Dunbar was an unheard of Undrafted Free Agent (UDFA) who started as a WR. Then Gruden had him switch to CB. Dunbar has improved every season and is now the second or third best CB in the NFL. He’s got one season left on his contract. No guaranteed money, so if he gets hurt, he gets nothing. So I see where he’s coming from. There have been so many injuries on this team, including some really bad one like Alex Smith, so I can understand an outstanding player like Dunbar worried about getting hurt before he gets a new, big contract for his level of play.

Get him in a good contract with guaranteed money and let’s move down the road. He’s going to be one of the cornerstones (no pun intended!) of the defense.


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Old 02-12-2020, 06:07 AM   #56
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

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Difference between Doctson and Dunbar was that Doctson was a total draft bust, and he was a first round draft pick at that. Not even sure if he’s in the NFL at all. He was drafted high and just never came close to filling his potential.

Dunbar was an unheard of Undrafted Free Agent (UDFA) who started as a WR. Then Gruden had him switch to CB. Dunbar has improved every season and is now the second or third best CB in the NFL. He’s got one season left on his contract. No guaranteed money, so if he gets hurt, he gets nothing. So I see where he’s coming from. There have been so many injuries on this team, including some really bad one like Alex Smith, so I can understand an outstanding player like Dunbar worried about getting hurt before he gets a new, big contract for his level of play.

Get him in a good contract with guaranteed money and let’s move down the road. He’s going to be one of the cornerstones (no pun intended!) of the defense.


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Im fine with the team keeping him . Just that maybe he is not very tough , he might not be RR / JDR type of player ? Would love to have a pair of great corners for the next few years .
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Old 02-12-2020, 07:43 AM   #57
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

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Im fine with the team keeping him . Just that maybe he is not very tough , he might not be RR / JDR type of player ? Would love to have a pair of great corners for the next few years .


Yeah, the hit on Dunbar is his injuries and missed games. If the redskins end up trading him it’s probably because of his injury issues. Or because he’s not buying into RR’s program. But if they trade him for draft picks it still means that they need to find good to draft picks or FA at:

LB
CB x 2 ( Dunbar gone)
FS

So I still think the Redskins will try to re-sign Dunbar as a homegrown talent!
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:27 AM   #58
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

So we have estimated a value of a contract per year of 10 mil per in a 3-4 year range.

His value on the field, best CB and best coverage guy in the secondary. Among peers, PFF has him as one of the top coverage guys...SS mentioned he doesn't get thrown at a ton, meaning he is doing his job.

So lets now look at his Trade Value...I think you throw 1st or 2nd round as laughable. I don't think we could get a 3rd round either based on injury history.

So you would take a 4th rounder? dumb move
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:59 AM   #59
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

We were 3-13 last season. Our pass defense was horrid on 3rd downs. If he wants to stay and play for real defensive coaches fine, but if it not, I will put faith in our newly minted VP of player personnel and RR to find suitable replacements.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:32 AM   #60
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Re: Dunbar demanding trade or release

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Originally Posted by budw38 View Post
While I agree with you , I will give you a little something . Two years ago , when The Skins decided to not pick up the option on J. Doctson ( WR ) , we were at a party with a guy who worked with the Skins Med/Training staff . After a few cold ones , he finally answered us about Doctson . His reply …. biggest crybaby he had been around at NFL level . Next biggest crybaby … Dunbar . Maybe he is not really ready for camp RR / Del Rio ?
This is my biggest concern. He doesnt play through pain which means he will miss games every season for things other players will play through. If true, I am sure the team knows this and might be why a deal wasnt done. Perhaps they expressed this to Dunbar and he got his panties in a bunch.

The more I think about it, see if you can get a 3rd and move on from him. He is only going to give 10 games at most per season.

------------------

Everybody treats you different when you are out with an injury. Players that miss time with pulls, like a groin or hamstring, are called “babies, sissies and soft” behind their backs. Unless the injury is visible or diagnosable, like a compound fracture or torn ACL, everyone in the organization will question the player’s toughness at some level.

I did not want to be in that category, but I also knew I could not run. I had never questioned myself and my NFL career before, but I was having doubts about my future. I shared that with a fellow linebacker, Mark Fields, who was the best athlete I had ever been around. Fields gave me words of advice I had never heard before.

He said: “Take care of yourself first. This is a hardcore business. If the team gets you on tape practicing, they will cut you the next day and you will get nothing. But they are probably cutting you anyway since you haven’t practiced, so they have to pay you for being injured.”

This is a major dilemma that occurs every preseason around the NFL. Fringe players who are eating up a roster spot get injured. They cannot practice, thus they are not helping the team. If the team feels like the player has potential, the organization will give the player some time to try and get healthy. But if the team feels like the player is not good enough, they would like to move on as quickly as possible.

That is where injury settlements come into play. Season-ending injuries end up on injured reserve. Players with “minor” injuries are paid a fraction of their salary to, more or less, go away. That sounds cruel, but players come to understand this practice is part of the deal when signing up to play in the NFL.

I remember a veteran signing later in training camp. The guy had no chance of making the team but all the other players at that position had nagging injuries and coach wanted to hold them out of the preseason game. The player, who had quite a few years under his belt, knew the score and how to work the system.

He “feigned” an injury in the game, a pulled calf muscle. Not season-ending, but enough to get a four-week payday on an injury settlement. I remember sitting by him in the training room saying, “I put my time in, now gotta get that retirement.” He smiled all the way out of the complex on his way to the airport.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...n-nfl-injuries
-----------------

OT - but I always question when a player gets injured 3 snaps into the first OTAs. Cooley said players get hurt over the summer then come to camp, hide the tear or whatever it is, 3 drills in they go down and now claim injury from practice.

I know Rueben Foster had a pretty significant injury but I do question whether he hurt himself outside of football then hid it until he got to OTAs.
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