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Old 01-25-2021, 03:42 PM   #151
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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Originally Posted by sevier2 View Post
I'd rather send a 1st and one of our 3rd's.
And even that’s too much
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Old 01-25-2021, 05:13 PM   #152
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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I'd rather send a 1st and one of our 3rd's.


Yup. That would work for me.
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Old 01-25-2021, 07:01 PM   #153
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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Yup. That would work for me.
1st and Landon Collins, throw in Apke.
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Old 01-25-2021, 07:53 PM   #154
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

No one wants Landon Collins!!
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Old 01-25-2021, 10:06 PM   #155
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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No one wants Landon Collins!!
or Apke or any terrible player in our team.
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Old 01-25-2021, 10:09 PM   #156
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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or Apke or any terrible player in our team.
A 1st and we promise not to force them to take Collins and Apke! They’ll jump at that.
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Old 01-25-2021, 11:22 PM   #157
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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1st and Landon Collins, throw in Apke.
So a first and a 7th rounder and a ham sandwich basically?
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Old 01-25-2021, 11:48 PM   #158
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

This is an interesting video from last year's combine with Kyle Smith. So what happened between Kyle and Ron? I don't believe Kyle was in Ron's radar from the beginning and blew sunshine up his ass.

https://youtu.be/FaTfkG_OdnA
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Old 01-25-2021, 11:51 PM   #159
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN View Post
This is an interesting video from last year's combine with Kyle Smith. So what happened between Kyle and Ron? I don't believe Kyle was in Ron's horizon from the beginning and blew sunshine up his ass.

https://youtu.be/FaTfkG_OdnA
I'm starting to believe they had a philosophical difference on how to build the team. Guessing Kyle was the more pragmatic, slow and steady type, and Ron thinks we have an opportunity to win now and he wants to seize it. If that is the case, the marriage was doomed as soon as our "window" opened during the season last year.
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Old 01-25-2021, 11:52 PM   #160
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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I'm starting to believe they had a philosophical difference on how to build the team. Guessing Kyle was the more pragmatic, slow and steady type, and Ron thinks we have an opportunity to win now and he wants to seize it. If that is the case, the marriage was doomed as soon as our "window" opened during the season last year.
Watch the video.
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Old 01-26-2021, 12:04 AM   #161
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN View Post
Watch the video.
I'm 10 minutes in, is there a specific part you'd like me to watch?

It sounds like he thought it was a collaborative effort with Ron, maybe it wasn't? Maybe Ron told him to fall in line? Idk. It doesn't rule out the scenario I laid out though, if they had philosophical differences in how to build the team it wouldn't be a surprise that Kyle is out.
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Old 01-26-2021, 12:07 AM   #162
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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I'm 10 minutes in, is there a specific part you'd like me to watch?

It sounds like he thought it was a collaborative effort with Ron, maybe it wasn't? Maybe Ron told him to fall in line? Idk. It doesn't rule out the scenario I laid out though, if they had philosophical differences in how to build the team it wouldn't be a surprise that Kyle is out.
Sounded like they had a good working relationship, with Ron telling he’s doing a good job, basically blowing sunshine up his ass. So then what happened there if things were so good?
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Old 01-26-2021, 12:51 AM   #163
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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Reading articles and the Lions fan forum ... expectation is it will take a 1st plus something else. Colts, 9ers are the most talked about likely partners.

Our 1st plus a 3rd or so might do it.

im fine either way. But I would like to know what the Watson demand is so we could compare.

Stafford - 1st and 3rd?
Watson - two 1sts and a 3rd?

I think Watson fits our scheme more than Stafford. Plus age. Plus ability to extend broken plays.
No retreads. In the last two drafts we have found solid long term starters at RB and WR with 3rd round pick. We should be able to find our long term shutdown corner or LT (or MLB or FS) with a 1st in this year's draft. We are NOT close to being a contender. We have a great DL and little else. We need a LOT of players. I love Stafford, but wouldn't trade for him, and certainly not a 1st round pick. Long term, you should hit on every first round pick and have 7-8 1st round starters on your team at any given time.

You have to do it the right way, find a long-term answer through the draft. A young guy that can lead your franchise for a decade or longer. You don't have to draft a top-10 QB to find a franchise QB, but it is harder.

Running QBs don't last. Eventually in the NFL the 250# monsters will catch you and break you. Look at this year's playoffs. The running QBs are hurt. The pocket passers have been playing since the Roman Empire collapsed. You're going to find your franchise QB, pay him $40M+ a year, and then let him take potshots from 300# linemen and bone-crushing LBs? And then lose him regularly to injuries? Sheer madness.

Trading for Stafford is horrible. We can get multiple players in prime on rookie deals that fill needs for what it would take to get him.

Watson can whine all he wants, he isn't getting traded, this is just the media running with a story so they have something to talk about. He is under contract, he is going to be told he isn't getting traded, but for now the GM will just let him run his mouth and wind himself down. Watson should have pondered longevity of coaching before signing $150M+ extension. What a crazy idea, that he actually honor that contract. He isn't going ANYWHERE. He wants to threaten to sit, they'll call his bluff, and go after his signing bonus. Push comes to shove, he'll play rather than surrender $35M+ a year.
Teams that believe they have their franchise QB won't trade him for ANYTHING, and the cap hit for cutting trading has to be something like $20M-$50M for Texans. Thus, even if wowed with 3 #1s, which is madness, trading not possible. Would you trade a franchise QB in his prime, suffer a $50M cap hit over two years (depending how much you defer to the following year), so you then have void at QB and have decimated your cap. Nope. Watson is NOT being traded unless it is an absolute King's Ransom and probably not even then. So everybody please just stop it.

Have to draft a long-term answer, not pursue the fool's gold of trading precious draft capital for guys on the backside of their career. If you are going to surrender draft picks, which we shouldn't, then you would trade up for a young QB you want to draft. You get him on rookie deal, and you have him for a decade or more. But I don't favor selling the farm to trade up either, modest trade up fine maybe. Smith. McNabb. RGIII. How many times do we have to make the mistake of retreads or mortgaging the future until the arm-chair Cerratos learn?
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Old 01-26-2021, 01:12 AM   #164
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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Sounded like they had a good working relationship, with Ron telling he’s doing a good job, basically blowing sunshine up his ass. So then what happened there if things were so good?
Look at the history of THE DAN. By year 2 or 3, he ALWAYS meddles. ALWAYS. You think Riviera didn't call the Shanny Clan and others and get the real story and learn what a turd THE DAN is? Its always all hugs and kisses year one or two, and then THE DAN meddles. ALWAYS. Don't believe the BS that this has somehow magically changed. RR has to be sure he has someone he can trust, not Snyder yes men, so he has intel from someone he has known forever and can trust when the meddling begins. How does he know if THE DAN goes to some scout and says give PLAYER X a good scouting report and champion him to RR or you are fired? Ron's only protection against THE DAN is to bring his own guys in. There is some desire to do this anyway, but this propensity becomes a need with THE DAN. RR is not dumb and has no illusions that THE DAN will not revert to his long-term behavior trends once the honeymoon is over. Every human being does.

THE DAN tax, on franchise success, is never ending. We are tossing out a brilliant young GM in the making, and probably the bulk of his scouting staff, for two retreads. Cam Newton has been a failure, especially when it comes to character. He takes all the glory when things are good, and blames everyone else like a ten-year old when things are bad. Locker Room cancer. He was also never very accurate and lacked the humility to work to become a more accurate passer. So we now have the regime that whiffed on Newton picking our next QB. Smith isn't the only talented GM or scout in the league, but I would argue a great GM is more important than a great coach. A great coach can't win without talent the GM provides, but a good coach can win with a lot of talent. So we again have it backwards. Letting the coach buy the groceries, directly or indirectly, doesn't work in most cases. You can't have a GM that is the lackey of the coach. He has to be the equal of the coach, or the boss of the coach. Mayhew and Hurney are average at best in terms of their personnel track records. They are not horrific hires, but neither are they brilliant hires, and the best teams, especially those good year in and out, have brilliant GMs. We are letting a potentially brilliant GM go to bring in two mediocre GMs who are retreads and nothing more.

What you would expect is another great draft this year because Smith has largely run it and done the scouting, though he may be overruled by RR and Co., him to leave for somewhere else later in year or year after latest, and then draft prowess to drop appreciably after. I could be wrong, but that is what you would expect. Smith may be too young to be GM, but he should have at minimum been promoted to assistant GM and given huge pay raise to keep him here. We have no idea what is happening behind scenes, whether divergent philosophies, but a huge portion of it has to be setting up a rampart against meddling by THE DAN.
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Old 01-26-2021, 01:30 AM   #165
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Re: Marty Hurney Thread

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Originally Posted by Scalper View Post
Look at the history of THE DAN. By year 2 or 3, he ALWAYS meddles. ALWAYS. You think Riviera didn't call the Shanny Clan and others and get the real story and learn what a turd THE DAN is? Its always all hugs and kisses year one or two, and then THE DAN meddles. ALWAYS. Don't believe the BS that this has somehow magically changed. RR has to be sure he has someone he can trust, not Snyder yes men, so he has intel from someone he has known forever and can trust when the meddling begins. How does he know if THE DAN goes to some scout and says give PLAYER X a good scouting report and champion him to RR or you are fired? Ron's only protection against THE DAN is to bring his own guys in. There is some desire to do this anyway, but this propensity becomes a need with THE DAN. RR is not dumb and has no illusions that THE DAN will not revert to his long-term behavior trends once the honeymoon is over. Every human being does.

THE DAN tax, on franchise success, is never ending. We are tossing out a brilliant young GM in the making, and probably the bulk of his scouting staff, for two retreads. Cam Newton has been a failure, especially when it comes to character. He takes all the glory when things are good, and blames everyone else like a ten-year old when things are bad. Locker Room cancer. He was also never very accurate and lacked the humility to work to become a more accurate passer. So we now have the regime that whiffed on Newton picking our next QB. Smith isn't the only talented GM or scout in the league, but I would argue a great GM is more important than a great coach. A great coach can't win without talent the GM provides, but a good coach can win with a lot of talent. So we again have it backwards. Letting the coach buy the groceries, directly or indirectly, doesn't work in most cases. You can't have a GM that is the lackey of the coach. He has to be the equal of the coach, or the boss of the coach. Mayhew and Hurney are average at best in terms of their personnel track records. They are not horrific hires, but neither are they brilliant hires, and the best teams, especially those good year in and out, have brilliant GMs. We are letting a potentially brilliant GM go to bring in two mediocre GMs who are retreads and nothing more.

What you would expect is another great draft this year because Smith has largely run it and done the scouting, though he may be overruled by RR and Co., him to leave for somewhere else later in year or year after latest, and then draft prowess to drop appreciably after. I could be wrong, but that is what you would expect. Smith may be too young to be GM, but he should have at minimum been promoted to assistant GM and given huge pay raise to keep him here. We have no idea what is happening behind scenes, whether divergent philosophies, but a huge portion of it has to be setting up a rampart against meddling by THE DAN.
Actually Danny knew what he had in Smith and liked him, I think Ron forced his hand on this one.
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