Who is Kirk Cousins?

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Thats a pretty big assumption. Not saying it will happen, but if some GM decides that Kirk could turn into something, they might just offer a pretty big deal. Not a deal like the elites are getting, but still a big deal. Atp, if someone offered him 15 mil a year, I dont see how the Redskins can match that unless its only a one year deal. Even on a one year deal, thats way to high for what he has achieved so far. Would be better to go after Hasselbeck (or stick with McCoy) as a bridge QB than pay that.

It is an assumption. That is what we do here - assume, opine, guess, bitch, dream...no one knows for certain who will be back next year. My assumption is KC will be the only QB retained...for less than 15 mil.

[JoeRedskin]

If they pay Cousins much more than the equivalent of a ham sandwich, my trust in Scotty McC will be severely shaken.

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[30gut]

I think you're both right. Kirk can make all the throws. But from what I've seen his arm isn't strong enough to make those throws without perfect form. Imo he has to throw off platform from a muddy pocket or off balance etc. He doesn't have the arm strength in those situations to drive the ball with velocity and that causes him to spray passes off target (high,low, short, behind etc).

I also think the current emphasis on getting the ball out quick has Kirk playing close too hurried. I think Kirk is playing with an over emphasis on not taking sacks. Its good to get the ball out quick and beat the rush etc. But when you're rushing and it effects your footwork and you miss a wide open gimme throws (like the one he missed to Garcon in the flat on (iirc) 2nd and 2 in the Jets) then its a problem. Like Wooden said ~'be quick, but don't hurry'. Also, and maybe its mere co-incidence but I wonder if Griffin being active put Kirk on more pressure?

BUT part and parcel with Kirk's struggles is the coaching. The gameplan and playcalling remains predictable. In broad strokes without getting too far into the weeds; Jay's offense lacks disguise. By and large on first down if its a run he's going to use a formation that indicates run. I-Form or Single back usually with base personnel or 2/3 TEs. IF Jay drop back passes on 1st down its usually from a formation that he doesn't use to run. Shotgun 1 back or under center 3 wide or empty (and the pass is usually a screen). You know why defense seem to be all over the WR screen to Crowder on 1st down? Because its one of the only passes we run from that shotgun formation on 1st down.
Imho If they want to be a better run team they need to run the ball from some of the same formations, personnel and down and distance that they pass from.

TLDR: Jay's offense 1st down= run from base formations/base personnel.
IF Jay's offense comes out in a pass set on 1st down its going to be a pass.
Defenses have a good read on what's coming based on formations.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I think you're both right. Kirk can make all the throws. But from what I've seen his arm isn't strong enough to make those throws without perfect form. Imo he has to throw off platform from a muddy pocket or off balance etc. He doesn't have the arm strength in those situations to drive the ball with velocity and that causes him to spray passes off target (high,low, short, behind etc).

Excellent observation. And unfortunately he doesn't always keep his feet in the proper position even when not under pressure.

If you watch Rodgers and Brady they're extremely nifty with their feet, they slide around and escape pressure without really ever getting off balance. And even when they do a flick of the wrist is all they seem to need.

Of course, how hard is it to find a talent like that? We have one in Griffin. Too bad his brain doesn't work the same way.

[skinsfan69]

Can we draft the kid Rosen from UCLA? He's only a freshman!!!!

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Excellent observation. And unfortunately he doesn't always keep his feet in the proper position even when not under pressure....

...Of course, how hard is it to find a talent like that? We have one in Griffin. Too bad his brain doesn't work the same way.

Correction. We had one; barring only the slimmest (although increasing with every poor performance from this HC/QB) will Griffin play for the Redskins again and if he does he still might be playing for a HC that doesn't want him.

Damn you for reminding me of the Griffin off balance flick of the wrist TDs.

Nothing speaks to the more to the dysfunction of this organization then the fall of Griffin. After Mike Shanny quit on the team/got fired they we're given a blank slate. But somehow they managed to find the one HC least capable/prepared/interested in developing what was then our greatest asset. Instead they found a HC that quit on him after 5 games; earlier according to the reports.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

The fact that Cousins looked off of Ryan Grant being covered by Revis, looked up field, and then made the severely mentally challenged decision to come back to Grant when he was still covered by Revis showed to me how much of a effen bum that Kirk Cousins is....

The Jets were playing man coverage almost the entire game. Come 3rd quarter on that play, Revis initially showed man by following the crossing receiver but then he let the receiver go and peeled back to short zone coverage where grant was.

Kirk was thinking man coverage when he came back to grant. He was not expecting Revis to be sitting on the route like he was.

revis made a nice play.

Jets D coord made a nice "change up the look" call in the 3rd quarter that Kirk will struggle with bc he depends on his pre-snap reads of coverage too much. when a D coord shows one look pre-snap but then does something different = kirk doesnt do well. kirk needs to see the field a lot better post snap.

The over the top bashing of Kirk is mind numbing right now.

The revis int was the worst int you have ever seen?
bc Kirk got picked off by revis, he is an effing bum?

do you know who is an effing bum? robert fucking griffin. the dude whose hubris so fucking big he cant accept the fact that he needs to be coachable from the ground up.

the fucking bum that we sunk a ton of resources in who spends more time in the gym thinking he needs to be running sprints instead of studying film in a dark room for 23 hours a day for the next 2 years.

kirk is the best of what we got right now. hes not ideal but at least he can run an offense. at least he can read and get rid of the ball so we arent sacked 8 times a game. at least he has shown he can drive down the field with the game on the line. at least we can call plays that call for the QB to read both sides of the field and work through progressions instead of running plays where there is only 1 route for RG3 to read.

kirk needs a run game and his top 2 weapons back and then .... maybe we go .500.

what the fuck did you all cousins haters expect?

for him to carry this body bag of a team with no run game to the SB?

[Chico23231]

a turd in the street >>>>>>>>>>>>>Kirk cousins a starting QB in the NFL

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

a turd in the street >>>>>>>>>>>>>Kirk cousins a starting QB in the NFL

dude a turd doesnt even have hands to throw a football. IT DOESNT HAVE HANDS CHICO!

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Correction. We had one; barring only the slimmest (although increasing with every poor performance from this HC/QB) will Griffin play for the Redskins again and if he does he still might be playing for a HC that doesn't want him.

Damn you for reminding me of the Griffin off balance flick of the wrist TDs.

Nothing speaks to the more to the dysfunction of this organization then the fall of Griffin. After Mike Shanny quit on the team/got fired they we're given a blank slate. But somehow they managed to find the one HC least capable/prepared/interested in developing what was then our greatest asset. Instead they found a HC that quit on him after 5 games; earlier according to the reports.

I don't want to turn this into a Griffin thread but I think his problems are just as much his own doing, or his own shortcomings, as it is the organization. Maybe even more so.

He's just not that quick witted. Ever take the DISC personality assessment? Griffin is an "I", a salesman, promotional, focused on how he's viewed. He's not analytical, and he's not decisive. He's fast as hell, and he can hit a target once it's open, that doesn't take a quick and decisive analytical mind and that's why he succeeded in college. It's also why he succeeded in year 1 under a college style offense designed by the Shanahans. But he expressed interest in moving on from a running style, but he doesn't have the wits. The surgical QBs - Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers, they are Ds/Cs. They are analytical, decisive, commanding, and attentive to detail.

Surgeons are Ds/Cs. Army commanders are Ds/Cs. Griffin is an I - he's a politician, a salesman, a public relations executive in an athlete's body.

He just doesn't have the right stuff. The only offense he'll succeed in is one that emphasizes his athleticism and keeps things simple enough that he doesn't have to bog down in details.

[Meks]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

a turd in the street >>>>>>>>>>>>>Kirk cousins a starting QB in the NFL

Hey just try not to get ran over by a car Chico. .

[Schneed10]

Meanwhile Cousins is a D/C personality but lacking consistent accuracy.

T Minus how many days till the draft?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

The Jets were playing man coverage almost the entire game. Come 3rd quarter on that play, Revis initially showed man by following the crossing receiver but then he let the receiver go and peeled back to short zone coverage where grant was.

Kirk was thinking man coverage when he came back to grant. He was not expecting Revis to be sitting on the route like he was.

revis made a nice play.

Jets D coord made a nice "change up the look" call in the 3rd quarter that Kirk will struggle with bc he depends on his pre-snap reads of coverage too much. when a D coord shows one look pre-snap but then does something different = kirk doesnt do well. kirk needs to see the field a lot better post snap.

The over the top bashing of Kirk is mind numbing right now.

The revis int was the worst int you have ever seen?
bc Kirk got picked off by revis, he is an effing bum?

do you know who is an effing bum? robert fucking griffin. the dude whose hubris so fucking big he cant accept the fact that he needs to be coachable from the ground up.

the fucking bum that we sunk a ton of resources in who spends more time in the gym thinking he needs to be running sprints instead of studying film in a dark room for 23 hours a day for the next 2 years.

kirk is the best of what we got right now. hes not ideal but at least he can run an offense. at least he can read and get rid of the ball so we arent sacked 8 times a game. at least he has shown he can drive down the field with the game on the line. at least we can call plays that call for the QB to read both sides of the field and work through progressions instead of running plays where there is only 1 route for RG3 to read.

kirk needs a run game and his top 2 weapons back and then .... maybe we go .500.

what the fuck did you all cousins haters expect?

for him to carry this body bag of a team with no run game to the SB?

If Kirk's pass wasn't intercepted, it would have been a short by a yard or two. It was a horrible pass that could have been picked off by any decent CB.

I'm sick of people defending Cousins; and people need to stop thinking that any criticism on Cousins is an automatic praise for Griffin.

At this point, Kirk isn't even good enough to be a game manager, neither is Griffin by the way. In an earlier thread, I had mentioned that I think the team will be getting a bridge QB in the offseason. I think this is going to be the case. McC will likely get his QB of the future either next draft or the one after that. And I'll be glad when we do a clean sweep of this batch of QBs.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I don't want to turn this into a Griffin thread but I think his problems are just as much his own doing, or his own shortcomings, as it is the organization. Maybe even more so....

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, theory or speculation. (even though expressing a differing opinion almost causes more drama then its worth in trying to have a discussion). I don't get hung up on non-football stuff because I don't think it even remotely reliable. Every once in awhile I listen to the local media/radio and I remember how little football they actually know and discuss. So I understand a lot of the frustration, dislike that many fans have towards Griffin. But, I guarantee he was the same guy in 2012 and the same guy at Baylor. My focus in on the field.

However; I agree that clearly Griffin played a key role in his circumstances here. But at the end of the day he's a player the onus falls on the organization to make it work. IF Griffin is a "difficult" personality to manage, which might be true, I'm certain he's not the first. And in my previous statement I was taking the grand view, the big picture or simplistic view....Washington drafted one of the best QB prospects I have every seen. The biggest question that surrounds any prospect was answered in year 1...can he play at a high level? Yes. The debacle of management that ensued imho is more on the organization then the player.

I don't believe the current result was inevitable. I think bad decisions were made along the way that have brought us here. Imho if we chose a different HC last year we wouldn't be here now.

But that's a different discussion for a different time.

Right now, J has to coach better to help his chosen QB and our team have more success and win this game.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, theory or speculation. (even though expressing a differing opinion almost causes more drama then its worth in trying to have a discussion).

However; I agree that clearly Griffin played a key role in his circumstances here. But at the end of the day he's a player the onus falls on the organization to make it work. I am taking the grand view, the big picture or simplistic view. Washington drafted one of the best QB prospects I have every seen. The biggest question that surrounds any prospect was answered in year 1...can he play at a high level? Yes. The debacle of management that ensued imho is more on the organization then the player.

I don't believe the current result was inevitable. I think bad decisions were made along the way that have brought us here. Imho if we chose a different HC last year we wouldn't be here now.

But that's a different discussion for a different time.

Right now, J has to coach better to help his chosen QB and our team have more success and win this game.



I don't get hung up on non-football stuff because I don't think it even remotely reliable.

Fair enough, I think personality assessment is a big factor in determining fit for any job, but if you want to stick with football...

The organization definitely could have insisted that it stick with the 2012 Shanahan offense. But remember it was Griffin and his dad that expressed interest in moving away from running.

But clearly that was the only offense he was fit to run. So you either force it on him, or you try to coach him to dissect teams through the air. I think you're damned either way.

Whatever, it doesn't matter. Griffin sucks, Cousins is the better player for this team. Unfortunately he's not good enough to ever win a championship with. We ride with him for now, maybe change to McCoy, not sure I even care.

All I know is our franchise QB is not on this roster.