The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas

HolyLandSkinsFan · 12-09-2009, 02:11 PM

Ok, I've been waiting to write this for a few months but here it goes:

Jim Zorn is an honest hardworking straightforward man This makes him a transparent, predictable playcaller.

But it also makes him a strong leader. Zorn at only 3 wins has the players respect. Zorn who was humiliated by the FO didn't strike back and like a quarterback being blitzed from all directions keeps on fighting. And his players keep on fighting too.

Zorn said from the getgo - 2 years. 2 years means that we'll be ready in year 3 - not year 2.

The Redskins have been decimated by injuries this year and they can still play. Maybe Vinny gets some credit after all.

About the best player vs. need. When things are unstable systemwise and coachwise you need to pick for best player. We are now switching to a west coast offense - this switch takes years to make and we still need to fight during that time. I don't think the brand name WC coaches would want to take a team in this state. Zorn given everything has been awesome.

The whole playcalling committee is working awesome because the men are working together and respect one another. Lewis doesn't coach the players - that would be interference in the coach player relationship. Zorn wrote the playbook and coaches the guys. Lewis just mixes it up.

Jason has played well. If he had an extra second or two he would be a star.

And the draft picks - rak, jarmon, davis, DT - these guys are showing up.

And Danny has learned a lot too. Things take time.

So here's what i believe - if you can coach a losing team with dignity. if you can whether front office distractions and injuries and maintain hope and intensity. Then you're a real leader - a real coach. Zorn has done this. And if you can coach a losing team - then you can coach a winning team.

So my radical idea is as follows:
leave everything in place for another year. upgrade the o-line in the draft. Leave Vinny and Lewis and Zorn. Check out the conditioning staff to see what happened this year.

I think if we give this team one more year we'll go deep into the playoffs.

And one more radical idea - as long as we play to win and show that we deserve to win all the rest of our games like we did last week - I actually hope that we *gasp* lose. If we aren't going to the playoffs - why be 8-8 when we can be 3 - 13 and get high draft picks to trade down for more picks?
Historically teams with very bad records turn around much more easily than teams with 6 to 9 wins.

So i think Danny and the FO has a winning combination and if we can just be patient and give it one more year - we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

Trample the Elderly · 12-09-2009, 02:12 PM

Can we get a crack smoking smiley face?

Redskin Warrior · 12-09-2009, 02:22 PM

Not sure if I know what this thread is about exactly ^^^ LMAO!!!

MTK · 12-09-2009, 02:28 PM

Some people have already suggested leaving things basically the same, but it's highly unlikely to happen.

SouperMeister · 12-09-2009, 02:50 PM

HolyLandSkinsFan, you want it both ways - you want the Skins to lose out and you want them to retain Zorn. Those two things are mutually exclusive. Zorn probably must win out to save his job, which would put the record at 7-9, yielding a pick somewhere around 10-15 overall.

I agree that we should consider keeping Zorn and Campbell if the team continues to play well AND wins. I just doubt that The Danny is thinking like that. He's probably preparing his battle plan for a whirlwind tour on Redskins One to bring in his new coach du jour.

freddyg12 · 12-09-2009, 02:56 PM

I've had the same feelings the last few weeks. I sincerely hope Zorn is back & JC too, though I wouldn't mind seeing some competition at qb (colt b. maybe?).

My radical idea is letting Blache go. I know the D has played statistically well the last 2 years but they can't seem to close games in the 4th (I know sometimes they've been on the field a long time). I also think that he plays not to lose just like Gibbs & Zorn have done. I wouldn't mind seeing him retire & give Gray a chance.

Hog1 · 12-09-2009, 02:57 PM

Dear HLSF welcome to the WP,
I take issue with several points you make, but NOT in totality. I hope....with all my heart do I hope that YOU ARE CORRECT...........and it works as well as you suggest.
Beyond that you get a pass..........Merry Christmas, and HTTR

SolidSnake84 · 12-09-2009, 02:58 PM

I like the post and i think it was honest and genuine.

But i dont think there is a distinction in coaching a losing team with dignity. For example, Cam Cameron went 1-15 with the dolphins...it certainly didn't get him another head coaching job. Mike Martz, fresh off a winless season with the lions, didn't have people beating down his door to offer him a job.

I think Zorn deserves credit for handling himself like a classy guy, but it isn't an excuse to keep them here because they handled things well. A losing record isn't handling anything well...

rbanerjee23 · 12-09-2009, 03:01 PM

Danny is learning??? things take time??? its been 10 years, what proof do you have that Danny/Vinny have learned anything...at the very least you have to lose Vinny

redsk1 · 12-09-2009, 03:05 PM

Let's not confuse Zorn's ability to coach with his likeableness. Zorn is hardworking and seems to have the players respect. I just question his overall ability to coach a winning team. That's not a knock on JZ, heck, he's never been an offensive coordinator before. It seems like he is a little overwhelmed. Lewis steps in and you could see tangible improvement.

I don't know, i'm a little torn though. I think I'm more focused on Vinny getting fired and getting another GM. Of course, this would mean sweeping changes most likely.

diehardskin2982 · 12-09-2009, 03:06 PM

Zorn is not a great leader, He is holding on to a job that pays him millions. If I was Zorn, I'd do the same thing.. You can do what you want, say what you want about me, make me look like a total puss to the public, but as long as I have the title of headcoach you have to pay me and if you fire me you STILL have to pay me.

I think Vinny has done a good job, the problem is that both Vinny and Snyder listens to the media and us fans way too much. For years we complained about not having big targets and no definsive line/ pass rush so they addressed that area. If there was any free agents available on the offensive line worth something over the last 2 years, I'm sure they would have brought them in. We pushed hard Leonard Davis and if Jordan Gross made it to the free market he would be a Redskin right now. No one could have foreseen what was going to happen to Samuels and Portis for that matter. I am confident that the Line will be a priority this offseason.

As nice as Zorn is, he not ready to be a NFL head coach. The truth is that Snyder should have stuck to his guns and brought in Fassel. He has crippled the growth of Zorn as a NFL coach by overwhelming him.

What should be done?
Either they comletely clean house bring in a whole new regiem or promote from within. Gray could be a good Headcoach. If he keeps Lewis as the OC and Blanche stays on as the DC we will make the playoffs. The strength of schedule will be weaker next year. Also they could invest in a JC as the QB of the future.

But we all know Shannahan wil be the coach and they will hand pick his future QB in this years draft. JC will be out of here and a vet like Vick, Hasselbeck or someone will be here until the rookie is ready to take over the team.

#56fanatic · 12-09-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

Zorn is not a great leader, He is holding on to a job that pays him millions. If I was Zorn, I'd do the same thing.. You can do what you want, say what you want about me, make me look like a total puss to the public, but as long as I have the title of headcoach you have to pay me and if you fire me you STILL have to pay me.

I think Vinny has done a good job, the problem is that both Vinny and Snyder listens to the media and us fans way too much. For years we complained about not having big targets and no definsive line/ pass rush so they addressed that area. If there was any free agents available on the offensive line worth something over the last 2 years, I'm sure they would have brought them in. We pushed hard Leonard Davis and if Jordan Gross made it to the free market he would be a Redskin right now. No one could have foreseen what was going to happen to Samuels and Portis for that matter. I am confident that the Line will be a priority this offseason.

As nice as Zorn is, he not ready to be a NFL head coach. The truth is that Snyder should have stuck to his guns and brought in Fassel. He has crippled the growth of Zorn as a NFL coach by overwhelming him.

What should be done?
Either they comletely clean house bring in a whole new regiem or promote from within. Gray could be a good Headcoach. If he keeps Lewis as the OC and Blanche stays on as the DC we will make the playoffs. The strength of schedule will be weaker next year. Also they could invest in a JC as the QB of the future.

But we all know Shannahan wil be the coach and they will hand pick his future QB in this years draft. JC will be out of here and a vet like Vick, Hasselbeck or someone will be here until the rookie is ready to take over the team.

Why anyone would want Vick to run a west coast style offense is beyond me. He cant throw the short crossing or out routes on a consistant basis because of his size. he can throw the ball down field, but really he is not a very good QB. Why people are infantuated with this dude is beyond me.

DynamiteRave · 12-09-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

Zorn is not a great leader, He is holding on to a job that pays him millions. If I was Zorn, I'd do the same thing.. You can do what you want, say what you want about me, make me look like a total puss to the public, but as long as I have the title of headcoach you have to pay me and if you fire me you STILL have to pay me.

I think Vinny has done a good job, the problem is that both Vinny and Snyder listens to the media and us fans way too much. For years we complained about not having big targets and no definsive line/ pass rush so they addressed that area. If there was any free agents available on the offensive line worth something over the last 2 years, I'm sure they would have brought them in. We pushed hard Leonard Davis and if Jordan Gross made it to the free market he would be a Redskin right now. No one could have foreseen what was going to happen to Samuels and Portis for that matter. I am confident that the Line will be a priority this offseason.

As nice as Zorn is, he not ready to be a NFL head coach. The truth is that Snyder should have stuck to his guns and brought in Fassel. He has crippled the growth of Zorn as a NFL coach by overwhelming him.

What should be done?
Either they comletely clean house bring in a whole new regiem or promote from within. Gray could be a good Headcoach. If he keeps Lewis as the OC and Blanche stays on as the DC we will make the playoffs. The strength of schedule will be weaker next year. Also they could invest in a JC as the QB of the future.

But we all know Shannahan wil be the coach and they will hand pick his future QB in this years draft. JC will be out of here and a vet like Vick, Hasselbeck or someone will be here until the rookie is ready to take over the team.

After watching Vick play a brokedown wildcat form for an actually decent Philly team, I can only think Vick's half the QB he used to be. Dude's not starting material anymore, imo.

dmek25 · 12-09-2009, 03:43 PM

i guess part of being a good leader is getting the gang to play hard, long after they know they are out of it. i don't think anyone on this board would argue the skins aren't playing hard. i would think this would be one of the toughest things to do in sports

saden1 · 12-09-2009, 03:48 PM

Boring....and...stupid thread. I am not entertained at all.

12-09-2009, 02:11 PM	#1
HolyLandSkinsFan Camp Scrub Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Tekoa, Israel Age: 49 Posts: 37	The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas Ok, I've been waiting to write this for a few months but here it goes: Jim Zorn is an honest hardworking straightforward man This makes him a transparent, predictable playcaller. But it also makes him a strong leader. Zorn at only 3 wins has the players respect. Zorn who was humiliated by the FO didn't strike back and like a quarterback being blitzed from all directions keeps on fighting. And his players keep on fighting too. Zorn said from the getgo - 2 years. 2 years means that we'll be ready in year 3 - not year 2. The Redskins have been decimated by injuries this year and they can still play. Maybe Vinny gets some credit after all. About the best player vs. need. When things are unstable systemwise and coachwise you need to pick for best player. We are now switching to a west coast offense - this switch takes years to make and we still need to fight during that time. I don't think the brand name WC coaches would want to take a team in this state. Zorn given everything has been awesome. The whole playcalling committee is working awesome because the men are working together and respect one another. Lewis doesn't coach the players - that would be interference in the coach player relationship. Zorn wrote the playbook and coaches the guys. Lewis just mixes it up. Jason has played well. If he had an extra second or two he would be a star. And the draft picks - rak, jarmon, davis, DT - these guys are showing up. And Danny has learned a lot too. Things take time. So here's what i believe - if you can coach a losing team with dignity. if you can whether front office distractions and injuries and maintain hope and intensity. Then you're a real leader - a real coach. Zorn has done this. And if you can coach a losing team - then you can coach a winning team. So my radical idea is as follows: leave everything in place for another year. upgrade the o-line in the draft. Leave Vinny and Lewis and Zorn. Check out the conditioning staff to see what happened this year. I think if we give this team one more year we'll go deep into the playoffs. And one more radical idea - as long as we play to win and show that we deserve to win all the rest of our games like we did last week - I actually hope that we gasp lose. If we aren't going to the playoffs - why be 8-8 when we can be 3 - 13 and get high draft picks to trade down for more picks? Historically teams with very bad records turn around much more easily than teams with 6 to 9 wins. So i think Danny and the FO has a winning combination and if we can just be patient and give it one more year - we'll all be pleasantly surprised. Last edited by HolyLandSkinsFan; 12-09-2009 at 02:15 PM. Reason: typos

12-09-2009, 02:12 PM	#2
Trample the Elderly Playmaker Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Three Chopt Virginia Age: 46 Posts: 2,906	Re: The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas Can we get a crack smoking smiley face? __________________ A funny thing happened on the way to the temple. The moneychangers bought the priesthood.

12-09-2009, 02:28 PM	#4
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 51 Posts: 99,362	Re: The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas Some people have already suggested leaving things basically the same, but it's highly unlikely to happen. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

12-09-2009, 02:56 PM	#6
freddyg12 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,540	Re: The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas I've had the same feelings the last few weeks. I sincerely hope Zorn is back & JC too, though I wouldn't mind seeing some competition at qb (colt b. maybe?). My radical idea is letting Blache go. I know the D has played statistically well the last 2 years but they can't seem to close games in the 4th (I know sometimes they've been on the field a long time). I also think that he plays not to lose just like Gibbs & Zorn have done. I wouldn't mind seeing him retire & give Gray a chance.

12-09-2009, 02:57 PM	#7
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas Dear HLSF welcome to the WP, I take issue with several points you make, but NOT in totality. I hope....with all my heart do I hope that YOU ARE CORRECT...........and it works as well as you suggest. Beyond that you get a pass..........Merry Christmas, and HTTR __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... *“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs*

12-09-2009, 02:50 PM	#5
SouperMeister Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Leesburg, VA Age: 59 Posts: 3,419	Re: The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas HolyLandSkinsFan, you want it both ways - you want the Skins to lose out and you want them to retain Zorn. Those two things are mutually exclusive. Zorn probably must win out to save his job, which would put the record at 7-9, yielding a pick somewhere around 10-15 overall. I agree that we should consider keeping Zorn and Campbell if the team continues to play well AND wins. I just doubt that The Danny is thinking like that. He's probably preparing his battle plan for a whirlwind tour on Redskins One to bring in his new coach du jour.

12-09-2009, 02:58 PM	#8
SolidSnake84 Playmaker Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Stephens City, VA Posts: 2,947	Re: The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas I like the post and i think it was honest and genuine. But i dont think there is a distinction in coaching a losing team with dignity. For example, Cam Cameron went 1-15 with the dolphins...it certainly didn't get him another head coaching job. Mike Martz, fresh off a winless season with the lions, didn't have people beating down his door to offer him a job. I think Zorn deserves credit for handling himself like a classy guy, but it isn't an excuse to keep them here because they handled things well. A losing record isn't handling anything well... __________________ Time to nut up or shut up

12-09-2009, 03:01 PM	#9
rbanerjee23 The Starter Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,440	Re: The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas Danny is learning??? things take time??? its been 10 years, what proof do you have that Danny/Vinny have learned anything...at the very least you have to lose Vinny __________________ "Tough times don't last but tough people do" -Mike Shanahan HTTR

12-09-2009, 03:05 PM	#10
redsk1 The Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,351	Re: The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas Let's not confuse Zorn's ability to coach with his likeableness. Zorn is hardworking and seems to have the players respect. I just question his overall ability to coach a winning team. That's not a knock on JZ, heck, he's never been an offensive coordinator before. It seems like he is a little overwhelmed. Lewis steps in and you could see tangible improvement. I don't know, i'm a little torn though. I think I'm more focused on Vinny getting fired and getting another GM. Of course, this would mean sweeping changes most likely.

12-09-2009, 03:06 PM	#11
diehardskin2982 Another Year, another mess. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,581	Re: The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas Zorn is not a great leader, He is holding on to a job that pays him millions. If I was Zorn, I'd do the same thing.. You can do what you want, say what you want about me, make me look like a total puss to the public, but as long as I have the title of headcoach you have to pay me and if you fire me you STILL have to pay me. I think Vinny has done a good job, the problem is that both Vinny and Snyder listens to the media and us fans way too much. For years we complained about not having big targets and no definsive line/ pass rush so they addressed that area. If there was any free agents available on the offensive line worth something over the last 2 years, I'm sure they would have brought them in. We pushed hard Leonard Davis and if Jordan Gross made it to the free market he would be a Redskin right now. No one could have foreseen what was going to happen to Samuels and Portis for that matter. I am confident that the Line will be a priority this offseason. As nice as Zorn is, he not ready to be a NFL head coach. The truth is that Snyder should have stuck to his guns and brought in Fassel. He has crippled the growth of Zorn as a NFL coach by overwhelming him. What should be done? Either they comletely clean house bring in a whole new regiem or promote from within. Gray could be a good Headcoach. If he keeps Lewis as the OC and Blanche stays on as the DC we will make the playoffs. The strength of schedule will be weaker next year. Also they could invest in a JC as the QB of the future. But we all know Shannahan wil be the coach and they will hand pick his future QB in this years draft. JC will be out of here and a vet like Vick, Hasselbeck or someone will be here until the rookie is ready to take over the team. __________________ That got ugly fast

12-09-2009, 03:43 PM	#14
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 62 Posts: 10,672	Re: The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas i guess part of being a good leader is getting the gang to play hard, long after they know they are out of it. i don't think anyone on this board would argue the skins aren't playing hard. i would think this would be one of the toughest things to do in sports __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

12-09-2009, 03:48 PM	#15
saden1 MVP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Age: 44 Posts: 10,069	Re: The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas Boring....and...stupid thread. I am not entertained at all. __________________ "The Redskins have always suffered from chronic organizational deformities under Snyder." -Jenkins

The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas

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