PATIENCE!!!! Try to be a FAN!! History Lesson

Hogskin · 10-04-2004, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

Wait a second, is my patriotism being questioned for questioning certain moves (i.e. Brunell starting)?

Fan, are you sure that was in THIS thread???? I went through it again from the top and can not find the post you seem to be referring to.

celts32 · 10-04-2004, 04:12 PM

I don't think criticising players on your team makes you a fairweather fan. Fair weather fans are people who lose interest or switch allegence when the going gets rough. I don't think blasting Portis or Coles for their poor play is being fairweather as long as you still support the team the next Sunday win or lose. Portis has been horrible. Why does it make you a fairweather fan for stating that? I still hold out hope that he will turn it around, but right now he is a detrament to the team. I do think we need patience with Gibbs since he has earned that and then some in my book, but a frustrated fan does not equal a fairweather fan. I pretty much think that the last 12 years have weeded out all of those...

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 10-04-2004, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogskin

Fan, are you sure that was in THIS thread???? I went through it again from the top and can not find the post you seem to be referring to.

I didn't mean patriotism in the literal sense of the word, I meant patriotism as in supporting Redskin country.

cocoajoey · 10-04-2004, 04:17 PM

Must be PATIENCE!!!!!!

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 10-04-2004, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

I don't think criticising players on your team makes you a fairweather fan. Fair weather fans are people who lose interest or switch allegence when the going gets rough. I don't think blasting Portis or Coles for their poor play is being fairweather as long as you still support the team the next Sunday win or lose. Portis has been horrible. Why does it make you a fairweather fan for stating that? I still hold out hope that he will turn it around, but right now he is a detrament to the team. I do think we need patience with Gibbs since he has earned that and then some in my book, but a frustrated fan does not equal a fairweather fan. I pretty much think that the last 12 years have weeded out all of those...

Pffewww, thanks for agreeing Celts.

You will never, ever, ever find me rooting for anyone but the Redskins. You will never find me booing the Skins in a game, no matter what they do. You will never find me losing interest in the Skins, no matter how bad their record is (like 5-11 last season).

But, you will find me critiquing certain players if I feel it is justified. That doesn't mean I've stopped loving the Skins, it just means I think something isn't right. That's the fun of this site - talking about what we like/dislike. This site would be incredibly boring if we were forbidden from discussing possible alternatives to how things are being done. I'm not Joe Gibbs nor will I ever come within 1 billion miles of being anywhere near as smart as him, but that shouldn't mean I can't question certain moves.

cocoajoey · 10-04-2004, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocoajoey

Must be PATIENCE!!!!!!

Don't let us down REDSKINS!!!
GIBBS WILL GET RIGHT!!!!!

HAIL TO THE REDSKINS FIGHT FOR OLD DC!!!!

skinsguy · 10-04-2004, 05:00 PM

Having been a fan since I was about 5 years old, I can tell ya that the last twelve years have been rough and mediocore at best. However, by myself seeing what Gibbs accomplished throughout the glory years, I can tell ya that he knows what to do to get this team back into good standings. Sure we have high expectations -- what true fan doesn't have high expectations for their team? However, a solid football team is not a team that changes players and coaching staff year after year....uh example...the Cardinals *cough cough*. This Redskins team hasn't been together for very long. I for one will cheer them on and brag about them even if they don't win another game this season. I will also continue to brag about Gibbs as well too! Why? Because I know what Gibbs can do with a football team and he is going to find out who has come to play and who has come for the pay!

Hail to the Redskins · 10-04-2004, 05:04 PM

I have to say this about the bandwagon this post itself has stirred...

Let's not blast Redskin fans for being frustrated... last I knew, fans didn't make decisions or play the games... so naturally, when you want something so bad (like beating Dallas on our HOME FIELD) and have no control over the outcome... of course we'll feel frustrated and disappointed and WILL lash out at players/coaches doing things that SHOULDN'T be acceptable...

With all that said... I have reasons for my own personal frustration...

A) No one tell me that salaries don't win games, because obviously I realize that... BUT... we have BY FAR the highest payroll of ALL 32 teams in the NFL, AND the highest paid coaching staff.

B) OUR SCHEDULE. We opened with Tampa Bay (0-4 this year) , the G-Women (4-12 last year), the Cowgirls (I mean, come on? At home? Testaverde? Eddie George?), and the Doo-Doo Browns (5-11 last year and the friggin Giants had a field day offensively against them). I mean, these are teams we SHOULD beat.

C) The way we lose. All 3 losses could very EASILY be wins. Turnovers, bad clock management, penalties, terrible calls, dropped passes...

the last thing I will say is this... I LOVE Joe Gibbs and EVERYTHING he stands for... BUT, I just want the Spurrier bashing to be swayed by the past few games. Trust me, I am no big fan of his... but Think about it.. If he would have come back this year, and every thing happened the SAME WAY the past 3 games with HIM on the sidelines, what would everyone be saying?? I will NEVER bash Gibbs... he WILL bring us back to glory, but hey... obviously, it aint easy bein' green, or winning in the NFL without players EXECUTING the plays you call...

itvnetop · 10-04-2004, 05:36 PM

I'm in total agreement with this thread. Emotions tend to get the better of some people after a loss- after consecutive losses, some become really irrational.

We need to remember that this is the fourth head coach in five years- that also means fourth offensive/defensive scheme in five years. Yes we are seeing the same mistakes that were made in the past- but we need to remember that when you're trying to memorize a new playbook, that also means learning more verbiage (in addition to the individual responsibility during a play). C'mon guys- Gibbs and Brunell don't sit there thinking of ways to push the play clock to zero before calling a time out... it's the first month of the regular season and it's obvious everyone is still not in sync with the communication. New plays and bad communication may elicit stupid penalties and loss of fundamentals (like holding on to the ball). Once everyone becomes comfortable with knowing where they are suppose to go, once the sideline transmits the plays to the QB without a hitch- then the Skins will be able to go out there and play football. It's a lot easier to maintain fundamentals when the plays are second nature and you don't have to worry about forgetting where you line up.

No excuses, but there is a rationale for why the offense is struggling. Let's not forget that the D is more than holding our their own. With most football teams coming together for the first time, the defense usually excels faster than the offense at the beginning of the season. I believe we'll see the offense come into their own sooner rather than later.

Daseal · 10-04-2004, 06:46 PM

As everyone knows I'm a Spurrier fan and I feel that had he left his coaching staff behind and gotten proven NFL guys to give him a hand, we would have won WITH his system. That being said, I never said that "I want Spurrier back" as was joked earlier in the thread. I don't think he was given a fair shot (I feel a coach needs 3-4 years to get his system somewhat in place, his personel, etc.) He may have lost the players already though, I'm not sure if he could have gotten them back.

I may have even been upset that he got fired (don't say he quit, he was run out) if it was for anyone other than Gibbs. If he gets run out of town for someone like Fassel or Ray Rhodes I would have been upset. Gibbs is a legend for DC football fans. He's a proven coach, a driven man, and simply a winner. I was curious what he could bring to the table in DC. I heard the name "offensive guru" thrown around with all the movement and formations able to score at his own will.

Thus far, I have been completely and utterly disappointed in his coaching. His playcalling is questionable (3 runs up the middle on the 1? Come on!) Using Portis like Jerome Bettis, stupid challenges, not getting the play to Brunell in time, etc.) Maybe I've been watching the wrong team, but I've seen a team that gets ahead by a touchdown and then tries to run the clock out in the first quarter. Not in today's NFL. See Indy and Tampa bay for a reminder of how fast NFL teams can score. Granted no team scores like Indy, but TB was the #1 defense at that point, and I think broke their back for the entire season. I've also seen little to no motion, and quite frankly, bad plays called for a back like Portis. I think Joe Gibbs should be treated like any other coach, I know he's had success in Washington, but what if he can't repeat? What if he leads us to 3-4 straight losing seasons? I'm not saying it's going to happen, but what then hypothetically? He needs to take the same blame any other coach would in this situation, stop letting his old glory days blind you.

That being said, the pressure surely isn't off the players. Portis has been a fumble machine (in my opinion, partially due to playcalling), Coles has been fairly unreliable, a total opposite of last year, Gardner has been himself - highlighted in the Giants game. Brunell and Ramsey have combined for a dud of a QB combo, though I'd like to see Ramsey get some snaps with the first unit and a chance to play. Our sole bright spot has been our incrediable defense Greg Williams has put together. He's the only coach that has lived up to expectations thus far.

That being said I feel hurt that those of us who actually question the lord and creator, Joe Gibbs are seen as "fairweather." That's like saying I hate the United States for criticizing George Bush. I will be sitting in front of my TV cheering my ass off come next week. I have a real emotional investment in the skins and my mood for the following week is directly proportional to the Redskins win. I want nothing more than to see Joe Gibbs and the retirement home bandits win a Super Bowl again. I know it will take TIME, but when you're losing to a team that just lost what their new offense is built around and lose to two other teams that were easily winnable, questions need to be asked.

I don't think you should blindly follow Gibbs, or anyone or anything for that matter. He's done well before, but many coaches have failed one place and thrived in others (Bill Bellicheck anyone?) He's in the same town, with a much different team. We have an abundance of talent, I'm sure someone can 'coach em' up' well enough to beat the Browns.

MTK · 10-04-2004, 07:21 PM

There's nothing wrong with criticizing the team, the players or the coaches.

I think what people have a problem with is the ridiculous overreactions, calling for half the team to be cut/benched, saying the system is flawed, not giving this time to work, etc.

Reasonable criticism is fine and that's what we're here for, to talk about the Skins through good and bad. But after every loss hearing people saying so and so needs to be cut just gets really aggravating.

Daseal · 10-04-2004, 08:25 PM

I don't expect things to be turned around in an instance, but I just try to say what I feel the problems in, and I think Brunell should be benched, personally.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 10-05-2004, 08:18 AM

That is where I stand too.

I want Portis, Coles and all the others out there starting...just not Brunell. I know Gibbs will turn this around, I'm just frustrated that we keep shooting ourselves in the foot.

celts32 · 10-05-2004, 11:55 AM

I don't want anyone benched becasue our best players are on the field but Portis sucks right now and I can say that and still love the Redskins...

Hail to the Redskins!

CRT3 · 10-05-2004, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Portis has been a fumble machine (in my opinion, partially due to playcalling), Coles has been fairly unreliable, a total opposite of last year, Gardner has been himself - highlighted in the Giants game. Brunell and Ramsey have combined for a dud of a QB combo, though I'd like to see Ramsey get some snaps with the first unit and a chance to play.

How has the play calling been behind the reason Portis has fumbled the ball? They have run up the middle but that does not mean you lose the ball. In fact 2 of his fumbles have been runs on the outside. 1 in the Giants game (2nd one) and the Cleveland game was off to the right side.

I'll take Coles as my number 1 reciever anyday. Brunnel a Dud? Please explain this one. You saw Ramsey get some snaps with the 1st team against the Giants, you also saw 3 interceptions and poor ones at that.

10-04-2004, 05:04 PM	#38
Hail to the Redskins The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,687	I have to say this about the bandwagon this post itself has stirred... Let's not blast Redskin fans for being frustrated... last I knew, fans didn't make decisions or play the games... so naturally, when you want something so bad (like beating Dallas on our HOME FIELD) and have no control over the outcome... of course we'll feel frustrated and disappointed and WILL lash out at players/coaches doing things that SHOULDN'T be acceptable... With all that said... I have reasons for my own personal frustration... A) No one tell me that salaries don't win games, because obviously I realize that... BUT... we have BY FAR the highest payroll of ALL 32 teams in the NFL, AND the highest paid coaching staff. B) OUR SCHEDULE. We opened with Tampa Bay (0-4 this year) , the G-Women (4-12 last year), the Cowgirls (I mean, come on? At home? Testaverde? Eddie George?), and the Doo-Doo Browns (5-11 last year and the friggin Giants had a field day offensively against them). I mean, these are teams we SHOULD beat. C) The way we lose. All 3 losses could very EASILY be wins. Turnovers, bad clock management, penalties, terrible calls, dropped passes... the last thing I will say is this... I LOVE Joe Gibbs and EVERYTHING he stands for... BUT, I just want the Spurrier bashing to be swayed by the past few games. Trust me, I am no big fan of his... but Think about it.. If he would have come back this year, and every thing happened the SAME WAY the past 3 games with HIM on the sidelines, what would everyone be saying?? I will NEVER bash Gibbs... he WILL bring us back to glory, but hey... obviously, it aint easy bein' green, or winning in the NFL without players EXECUTING the plays you call... __________________ “Sometimes it is not enough to our best; we must do what is required.” - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

10-04-2004, 04:12 PM	#32
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 52 Posts: 2,665	I don't think criticising players on your team makes you a fairweather fan. Fair weather fans are people who lose interest or switch allegence when the going gets rough. I don't think blasting Portis or Coles for their poor play is being fairweather as long as you still support the team the next Sunday win or lose. Portis has been horrible. Why does it make you a fairweather fan for stating that? I still hold out hope that he will turn it around, but right now he is a detrament to the team. I do think we need patience with Gibbs since he has earned that and then some in my book, but a frustrated fan does not equal a fairweather fan. I pretty much think that the last 12 years have weeded out all of those...

10-04-2004, 04:17 PM	#34
cocoajoey Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 115	Must be PATIENCE!!!!!!

10-04-2004, 05:00 PM	#37
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Having been a fan since I was about 5 years old, I can tell ya that the last twelve years have been rough and mediocore at best. However, by myself seeing what Gibbs accomplished throughout the glory years, I can tell ya that he knows what to do to get this team back into good standings. Sure we have high expectations -- what true fan doesn't have high expectations for their team? However, a solid football team is not a team that changes players and coaching staff year after year....uh example...the Cardinals cough cough. This Redskins team hasn't been together for very long. I for one will cheer them on and brag about them even if they don't win another game this season. I will also continue to brag about Gibbs as well too! Why? Because I know what Gibbs can do with a football team and he is going to find out who has come to play and who has come for the pay!

10-04-2004, 05:36 PM	#39
itvnetop Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 46 Posts: 3,007	I'm in total agreement with this thread. Emotions tend to get the better of some people after a loss- after consecutive losses, some become really irrational. We need to remember that this is the fourth head coach in five years- that also means fourth offensive/defensive scheme in five years. Yes we are seeing the same mistakes that were made in the past- but we need to remember that when you're trying to memorize a new playbook, that also means learning more verbiage (in addition to the individual responsibility during a play). C'mon guys- Gibbs and Brunell don't sit there thinking of ways to push the play clock to zero before calling a time out... it's the first month of the regular season and it's obvious everyone is still not in sync with the communication. New plays and bad communication may elicit stupid penalties and loss of fundamentals (like holding on to the ball). Once everyone becomes comfortable with knowing where they are suppose to go, once the sideline transmits the plays to the QB without a hitch- then the Skins will be able to go out there and play football. It's a lot easier to maintain fundamentals when the plays are second nature and you don't have to worry about forgetting where you line up. No excuses, but there is a rationale for why the offense is struggling. Let's not forget that the D is more than holding our their own. With most football teams coming together for the first time, the defense usually excels faster than the offense at the beginning of the season. I believe we'll see the offense come into their own sooner rather than later.

10-04-2004, 06:46 PM	#40
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	As everyone knows I'm a Spurrier fan and I feel that had he left his coaching staff behind and gotten proven NFL guys to give him a hand, we would have won WITH his system. That being said, I never said that "I want Spurrier back" as was joked earlier in the thread. I don't think he was given a fair shot (I feel a coach needs 3-4 years to get his system somewhat in place, his personel, etc.) He may have lost the players already though, I'm not sure if he could have gotten them back. I may have even been upset that he got fired (don't say he quit, he was run out) if it was for anyone other than Gibbs. If he gets run out of town for someone like Fassel or Ray Rhodes I would have been upset. Gibbs is a legend for DC football fans. He's a proven coach, a driven man, and simply a winner. I was curious what he could bring to the table in DC. I heard the name "offensive guru" thrown around with all the movement and formations able to score at his own will. Thus far, I have been completely and utterly disappointed in his coaching. His playcalling is questionable (3 runs up the middle on the 1? Come on!) Using Portis like Jerome Bettis, stupid challenges, not getting the play to Brunell in time, etc.) Maybe I've been watching the wrong team, but I've seen a team that gets ahead by a touchdown and then tries to run the clock out in the first quarter. Not in today's NFL. See Indy and Tampa bay for a reminder of how fast NFL teams can score. Granted no team scores like Indy, but TB was the #1 defense at that point, and I think broke their back for the entire season. I've also seen little to no motion, and quite frankly, bad plays called for a back like Portis. I think Joe Gibbs should be treated like any other coach, I know he's had success in Washington, but what if he can't repeat? What if he leads us to 3-4 straight losing seasons? I'm not saying it's going to happen, but what then hypothetically? He needs to take the same blame any other coach would in this situation, stop letting his old glory days blind you. That being said, the pressure surely isn't off the players. Portis has been a fumble machine (in my opinion, partially due to playcalling), Coles has been fairly unreliable, a total opposite of last year, Gardner has been himself - highlighted in the Giants game. Brunell and Ramsey have combined for a dud of a QB combo, though I'd like to see Ramsey get some snaps with the first unit and a chance to play. Our sole bright spot has been our incrediable defense Greg Williams has put together. He's the only coach that has lived up to expectations thus far. That being said I feel hurt that those of us who actually question the lord and creator, Joe Gibbs are seen as "fairweather." That's like saying I hate the United States for criticizing George Bush. I will be sitting in front of my TV cheering my ass off come next week. I have a real emotional investment in the skins and my mood for the following week is directly proportional to the Redskins win. I want nothing more than to see Joe Gibbs and the retirement home bandits win a Super Bowl again. I know it will take TIME, but when you're losing to a team that just lost what their new offense is built around and lose to two other teams that were easily winnable, questions need to be asked. I don't think you should blindly follow Gibbs, or anyone or anything for that matter. He's done well before, but many coaches have failed one place and thrived in others (Bill Bellicheck anyone?) He's in the same town, with a much different team. We have an abundance of talent, I'm sure someone can 'coach em' up' well enough to beat the Browns.

10-04-2004, 07:21 PM	#41
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 51 Posts: 99,336	There's nothing wrong with criticizing the team, the players or the coaches. I think what people have a problem with is the ridiculous overreactions, calling for half the team to be cut/benched, saying the system is flawed, not giving this time to work, etc. Reasonable criticism is fine and that's what we're here for, to talk about the Skins through good and bad. But after every loss hearing people saying so and so needs to be cut just gets really aggravating.

10-04-2004, 08:25 PM	#42
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I don't expect things to be turned around in an instance, but I just try to say what I feel the problems in, and I think Brunell should be benched, personally.

10-05-2004, 08:18 AM	#43
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 44 Posts: 8,317	That is where I stand too. I want Portis, Coles and all the others out there starting...just not Brunell. I know Gibbs will turn this around, I'm just frustrated that we keep shooting ourselves in the foot.

10-05-2004, 11:55 AM	#44
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 52 Posts: 2,665	I don't want anyone benched becasue our best players are on the field but Portis sucks right now and I can say that and still love the Redskins... Hail to the Redskins!

PATIENCE!!!! Try to be a FAN!! History Lesson

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