Zorn Will Still "Do it All" in 2009

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

I agree that the line should be held accountable a little... but to me, the West Coast Offense is supposed to be a 3-5-7 step drop, then get rid of the ball kind of offense.

Many times, Campbell would plant and hold or pump fake, being afraid to throw into SINGLE coverage if he thought it was tight. My assumption is that Zorn drilled into him from day one "do NOT turn the ball over"... which is GREAT and understandable...

But look at the whole equation and you also see our receiving core as:

* One short,above-average receiver who was doubled for the MAJORITY of the season (Moss)

* One short receiver who really isn't a "receiver" that runs crisp routes, escapes jams, and is finding holes in the D (Randel El)

* 2 completely unreliable (to HC & QB), yet "tall", young receivers who are just NOT understanding that being an NFL receiver isn't just "run and catch" and that there is a massive playbook that involves READING in order to truly be effective and trustworthy. Obviously, Zorn didn't trust them to run routes effectively, and Campbell didn't, at the end, trust that they's CATCH the ball. (If you heard the broadcast Sunday the announcer mentions on one play that D Thomas had one-on-one coverage deep and Campbell looked off of him and threw the ball away)

* and... one great receiving TE that was focused on & surrounded every play once down inside the opponent's 30 yd line.

So to me, I think that you add Campbell's desperately NOt wanting to throw INTS + Receivers not being "clearly" open, and there is half of the sacks this season.

Eventually though, Campbell started to learn to just pack it in and take off, which is one good lesson that came out of it all for next year.


Also..

I think our running game suffered at the end because teams figured out that they didn't have to worry about the deep pass as most of Zorns plays call for 6-9 yd routes, and that Campbell was hesitant to "throw one up", so safeties were up, linebackers weren't pressed into coverage (as you saw other teams do to us), etc... If we had a passing offense (that included stretching the field), the run game would come back

Good post. I think people mistakenly associate the flailing offense w/ our perceived lack of commitment to the ground-game. Like you've pointed out defenses keyed more and more on our backfield because the air attack fell apart and they didn't have to play us honest. Develop the air attack and Portis starts to break open long runs again (as opposed to gaining 4 or 5 yards on pure grit and toughness).

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

So we keep the players, coaches, scheme ... everything. Then hope that with more time reading the playbook, then we'll start seeing more yardage and more points?

Sounds like doing the same exact thing, and expecting different results.

Well if there's one thing that hasn't worked here under Snyder, it's the constant changing of the parts and pieces.

Of course there will be some changes in personnel, adjustments to the offense, and perhaps some coaching changes, but all in all I don't think shaking things up as some suggest doing is going to accomplish much other than to keep us spinning our wheels.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Well if there's one thing that hasn't worked here under Snyder, it's the constant changing of the parts and pieces.

Of course there will be some changes in personnel, adjustments to the offense, and perhaps some coaching changes, but all in all I don't think shaking things up as some suggest doing is going to accomplish much other than to keep us spinning our wheels.

No doubt. Tweaks here and there are always necessary, but constant overhaul is a recipe for mediocrity or worse.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Well if there's one thing that hasn't worked here under Snyder, it's the constant changing of the parts and pieces.

Of course there will be some changes in personnel, adjustments to the offense, and perhaps some coaching changes, but all in all I don't think shaking things up as some suggest doing is going to accomplish much other than to keep us spinning our wheels.

The Redskins dont need to shake up the coaching staff but there are too many players that are way too comfortable on this team. I have no problem shaking up the players because they need it.

[redskinsrob]

Originally Posted by irish

The Redskins dont need to shake up the coaching staff but there are too many players that are way too comfortable on this team. I have no problem shaking up the players because they need it.

I agree with you there, we need to get more young players who are hungry.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Plenty of WCO coaches do it all, i'm cool with that, he showed during the 1st half of the season that he is a good offense mind. But unlike other WCO coaches Zorn lacks a knowledgeable and experienced WCO staff to lean on..
HC-OC-QB coach + Staff

Holmgren had Gil Haskell and Zorn + WCO staff
Reid has Morningwig and Pat Shurmur + WCO staff
McCarthy has Philbin and Tom Clements + WCO staff
Shanahan had Rick Dennison and Jeremy bates + WCO staff

Zorn has Sherman Smith a 1st time OC who is learning the WCO and NO QB COACH (Chris Meidt offensive assistants helps fill the QB coach role a 1st time NFL assistant a former Div.III HC) + 1 Staffer Stump Mitchell that knows the WCO

I think you make a key point. Add to that the offensive staffs in places like Baltimore and Atlanta. You had first year head coaches but proven, experienced OC's/Playcallers in Cam Cameron (and Hue Jackson) and Mike Mularkey (and Bill Musgrave).

[Hog1]

Growing pains were expected on offense in the first year of the transition to Zorn's version of the West Coast offense, which features many three- and four-receiver sets. But the inability of the players to execute consistently in the spread scheme has prompted Zorn and his offensive assistants to "look at our schemes," he said. "I'm not coming up with a whole new scheme on offense because we didn't score points. I'm talking about looking at our schemes, building on our strengths and trying to improve or close the gaps on our weaknesses.
Originally posted by MK72

I have no problem with this. In fact, I respect and find it the ONLY realistic and responsible action to take "to build" this francise back to it's former glory. That is what JZ said he wants to do.
We do not need to reinvent the wheel. We need to Turbo charge it a bit. JZ is keenly aware of our personnel deficiences, and I am sure will work his ass off to change that.....beginnning with the O-Line this off-season. After all, you MUST fix the known problems first before you can accurately evaluate what could be a problem (ex. O-scheme, JC, CP, etc).
OR......we can blow the MF'r up again. It has worked well in the past......right?

[irish]

Originally Posted by redskinsrob

I agree with you there, we need to get more young players who are hungry.

They need players of any age (young preferred) that are hungry. The problem is that the Skins pay too much too soon to keep anyone hungry.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

I agree that the line should be held accountable a little... but to me, the West Coast Offense is supposed to be a 3-5-7 step drop, then get rid of the ball kind of offense.

Many times, Campbell would plant and hold or pump fake, being afraid to throw into SINGLE coverage if he thought it was tight. My assumption is that Zorn drilled into him from day one "do NOT turn the ball over"... which is GREAT and understandable...

But look at the whole equation and you also see our receiving core as:

* One short,above-average receiver who was doubled for the MAJORITY of the season (Moss)

* One short receiver who really isn't a "receiver" that runs crisp routes, escapes jams, and is finding holes in the D (Randel El)

* 2 completely unreliable (to HC & QB), yet "tall", young receivers who are just NOT understanding that being an NFL receiver isn't just "run and catch" and that there is a massive playbook that involves READING in order to truly be effective and trustworthy. Obviously, Zorn didn't trust them to run routes effectively, and Campbell didn't, at the end, trust that they's CATCH the ball. (If you heard the broadcast Sunday the announcer mentions on one play that D Thomas had one-on-one coverage deep and Campbell looked off of him and threw the ball away)

* and... one great receiving TE that was focused on & surrounded every play once down inside the opponent's 30 yd line.

So to me, I think that you add Campbell's desperately NOt wanting to throw INTS + Receivers not being "clearly" open, and there is half of the sacks this season.

Eventually though, Campbell started to learn to just pack it in and take off, which is one good lesson that came out of it all for next year.


Also..

I think our running game suffered at the end because teams figured out that they didn't have to worry about the deep pass as most of Zorns plays call for 6-9 yd routes, and that Campbell was hesitant to "throw one up", so safeties were up, linebackers weren't pressed into coverage (as you saw other teams do to us), etc... If we had a passing offense (that included stretching the field), the run game would come back

I think that JC's unwillingness to take chances come more from Gibb's and his consevative play and his disire to protect the ball at all cost.

[birdz4gibbs]

build up your personnel on the field in the areas it needs to be improved..
add to it and please i,ve preached all year and especially in the 2nd half of the season to take your shots downfield..
like matty they need to keep it together but just make little changes that will make a difference not change it all out for the sake of change...

wait and see..

[irish]

Originally Posted by birdz4gibbs

build up your personnel on the field in the areas it needs to be improved..
add to it and please i,ve preached all year and especially in the 2nd half of the season to take your shots downfield..
like matty they need to keep it together but just make little changes that will make a difference not change it all out for the sake of change...

wait and see..

I think when one looks at the Skins one cant help but see a team that isnt that good. They really dont have much on O as Moss is a decent #2 but nothing more, Cooley is a nice TE but its only a TE, CP isnt a home run hitter and is really only a pounder/plodder. The QB is mid level at best.

The D line isnt good, the DBs are ok but nothing special and so are the LBs.

Bottom line is the Skins need a lot of player change & upgrades but I doubt the front office can do what is needed as it will officially stamp their past moves as failures.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by irish

The Redskins dont need to shake up the coaching staff but there are too many players that are way too comfortable on this team. I have no problem shaking up the players because they need it.

Exactly. Too many coddled princess-players who demand special treatment and have unusually easy access to the Boy Owner.

There's a whole lot of overrated, overpaid, aging sacred cows on this team who give us 8-8 type results.

[beemnsevenspop]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

washingtonpost.com

I don't know if someone already linked to this article, but one part that stands out is...

"Zorn also emphatically dismissed suggestions he wore too many hats as head coach, play-caller and, essentially, quarterbacks coach...

The coaching staff also should continue to grow in 2009, Zorn said. "We can maintain our group," he said. "We're going to look at ways we can improve ourselves."

Part of that process apparently does not include Zorn divesting himself of any of his duties.

"I didn't ever feel overwhelmed with the responsibility of being the head football coach here," Zorn said. "My hope is that I'm going to be strong, stronger, in the overall managing of the total team. Even getting stronger and stronger as a head coach.

"But coaching quarterbacks, I've got a great assistant in Chris Meidt, and he takes on a tremendous amount of responsibility, but I'm still going to be involved with the QBs. The play-calling? I kind of like that."


... For those wondering if anything would change on offense for next year, Zorn also said in the article that he's not going to change the scheme, he is going to ask the players to improve... hmmmm ... ok... that's fine. I guess we'll see what really happens.

They're gonna IMPROVE? OH, PUH-LEEZE - how many times has THAT broken record going to be played? NEXT YEAR will be the same as the last TEN years as long as Dan (Yeah - I paid 800 mil for 'em - I'll run 'em into the ground if I feel like it) Snyder keeps Vinny (Yeah - I use the "dartboard method" for selecting draft pix/trades - ain't I sumpin'?) Cerrato on the payroll; with those two running the show, the best ANYONE can hope for is YET ONE MORE mediocre, lackluster, I wanna go home after half-time, 6-10, /7-9/, or 8-8 season - But that's just my 2senzwurth - and I still need a few more replies 'til I can start my OWN threads......

[SBXVII]

I totally agree Zorn deserves another year to improve his scheme. "If" it improves then good we have a keeper. But.....if we are going to change the HC again next year ...please just call it rebuilding and send all the primidana's packing. Start a new. Don't give us the same BS story about how we are close and we just needed a new coach and a few pieces to the puzzle. Just blow it up and let the new coach start over. Perhaps by calling it rebuilding none of us will get our expectations too high. Until then Zorn better figure out why the engine is missing and tune it up over the summer cause I'm getting tired of the less then 20 points every year. I'm expecting a team to come out and blow other teams doors off like NE did last yr. Except with a better outcome.

I say this like my gripe will be heard and or I'll do something about it right. lol.