What about a TRUE GM

irish · 11-30-2005, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstandTen

I think adding a new GM couldn't hurt. I think what some of us are trying to say here is the personnel decisions have gotten much better sense Gibbs came to town.

I think the difference is not so much that the personnel decisions are better under Gibbs, I think its more that the decisions being made by Gibbs are being supported by the owner and not over-ruled (remember Jeff George) or circumvented which has allowed Gibbs to assemble the type of team he wants/needs. I just dont think that Marty or OBC had this front office support.

#56fanatic · 11-30-2005, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstandTen

I thought we were discussing the current management with Gibbs?

I was just bringing to light how the organization as a whole has not improved since Dan and Co. took over. People are always saying how we are improving, but the numbers are just not backing it up. I dont think, after years of mediocrity, we can keep putting the blame on coaches and assistant coaches. No coach,one hall of famer and one future hall of famer (marty), has had any success. I just wanted to point out that until we put a GM that knows football in place and can run this team without interruption we will be the same team year after year. At some point we have to start looking at the top. We have made personel changes, coaching changes, philosphy changes and nothing is working. The only consistant has been the people making the decisions , and the consistant losing seasons.

dmek25 · 11-30-2005, 02:54 PM

i think 56fanatic and sally jenkins live together,both share the same negative viewpoints on the skins

#56fanatic · 11-30-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

i think 56fanatic and sally jenkins live together,both share the same negative viewpoints on the skins

I read Sally Jenkins article today and felt it was a bit harsh. She obviously has something against Dan Snyder. That being said, I have taken up for this organization until I was blue in the face. Saying what owner goes out and get what ever player you want, he spends the money to win, he cares. Which all of this is true, he does care about his franchise, tremendously. However, until we put people in place with FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE in the front office we will continue to make bad moves and finish every year with these "playoff scenarios" and what ifs. Look at the teams at the top of the NFL. Look at how the team is run. The owner writes the checks, that is it. They have a proven talent evaluator, GM, player scouts and the list goes on. With the exception of a few teams. All of these teams have built teams from the ground up with the draft. Rounds 1 through 7, not using only rounds 1 through 3. and picking up multiple free agents year after year. I dont know why people dont see that. We use to build through the draft, with the help of quality GMs and win. When Dan took over and cleaned house, and made decisions himself it has gotten us a season best record of 8-8. I know people keep thinking about some of the additions made being quality additions, which some might be. But looking at the overall performance since 99, only 6 years there are only 2 or 3 players still on the active roster. constant turnover, coaches and players never wins. All of the teams competing for the playoffs have had pieces added through the draft over a few years and they grow together, then when they hit a turn around, the front office goes out and picks quality players to make the team that much better. We do not do that. They dont believe in having a down year or two to build and let the team grow, its win now and since that concept has taken over we have not won anything. I just wish people would look around and see the successful franchises and see the common thread there. Its not a hard concept to understand.

Hog1 · 11-30-2005, 04:45 PM

They dont believe in having a down year or two to build and let the team grow, its win now and since that concept has taken over we have not won anything. I just wish people would look around and see the successful franchises and see the common thread there. Its not a hard concept to understand.

It appears you don't mind having a down year or two to rebuild. Yet you judge Joe on the basis of 1 1/2 seasons. You state "don't understand why people don't see using ALL rounds of the draft to build a team". I don't disagree with that, and I am sure the SKins staff does not as well. The draft is but ONE TOOL to rebuild. At the time I am sure they weighed the avenue's they had to benefit from and chose what they thought would have the greatest impact now and for the future to provide a MUCH NEEDED transfusion to a dying patient!

While I do not liken your posts to Sally Jesse Rafael, Jesse Jackson, or anyone else. However, IMO, you judge the team way harsh and unjustly so. They are on track trying to drag this dead whale off the beach! Save the whales!!!!!!!!

offiss · 11-30-2005, 10:27 PM

A few guy's beat me to it, but the word is Martz will be out in St.Louis, there's an offensive mind who could extract the talent out of Portis with the way he uses his backs in that system, the problem is I don't think Martz will be an assisitant, I think someone will hire him as a head coach, but he would be perfect for us as offensive coordinator.

jacobyfan · 12-01-2005, 02:09 PM

I think we should start doing the following:

All those who costantly criticize Gibbs, Snyder, et al. need to tell us who THEY would have drafted immediately after the draft. Then we will see how those players pan out. If you do a really good job, I'll help you make your resume to send to Snyder. If you're wrong, we put (jackass) after your forum name for a year.

That Guy · 12-01-2005, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacobyfan

I think we should start doing the following:

All those who costantly criticize Gibbs, Snyder, et al. need to tell us who THEY would have drafted immediately after the draft. Then we will see how those players pan out. If you do a really good job, I'll help you make your resume to send to Snyder. If you're wrong, we put (jackass) after your forum name for a year.

lol, that actually doesn't sound like a bad idea...

56FAN · 12-02-2005, 08:04 AM

can we get off the mike williams thing once and for all?. he sat a year before coming in to the pros, the competition is faster stronger smarter and quicker and bigger. he now has a reputation as a practice problem as in he doesn't like to. he's not fast or quick just big. and we had that in mccants who i would have liked to have kept. carlos rogers was a great pick.i believe we got the best of the 3 cb's drafted. it's the later picks we could have picked up someone but the fact is not one drafted wr this year is making a big impact what so ever.edwards was the only wr i was considering for our 1st pick and he was gone.soo, lets put mike williams to sleep and never wake it up again.the way they play rookies here i don't think that his impact here would have been anymore than it is in detroit.especially with his practice problems.

TheMalcolmConnection · 12-02-2005, 08:29 AM

I agree with that. Williams will be a complete bust wherever he plays. Rogers was definitely the best pick. We filled a position of need. I DO agree we could have done better with our 2nd pick.

MTK · 12-02-2005, 08:52 AM

Considering we didn't have a 2nd rounder, yeah we could have done a helluva lot better!

RedskinPete · 12-02-2005, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

The scouting was and is primarily done by Vinney and Pepper. They prepare a sheet of potential free agents or draft picks and have a grading system. These are then given to DANNY for approval or disapproval in going after certain players. To my knowledge they have developed a scouting program better than what was in place before Joe got there.

THERE IS THE PROBLEM!!!! VINNY did in the 49ers and he is doing the same job Here!!!! Scouting has been so bad and all should be fired! FIRE VINNY!!!!

Balmerskinsfan · 12-02-2005, 01:20 PM

Umm, sorry for pointing out the obvious, but a GM does a lot more than simply decide who to draft. GMs manage the entire team under the salary cap. Where the Skins have HUGE ****ING PROBLEMS is managing the team under the cap. Brunell, for example is playing under a 40 million dollar contract, hardly smart management. As long as I can remember, Skins teams have usually featured at least 2-3 overpaid dinosaurs. We could certainly use a formal GM, but its not likely to happen until the Dummy is willing to stop treating the Skins like his personal fantasy team and let a real pro take control.

paulskinsfan · 12-02-2005, 02:18 PM

I pretty much agree with everyting 56Fan has said on this issue. While Gibbs is a good coach, his 2 yrs in the draft room with Snyder/Cerrato have been pretty pathetic. When the trio is not giving picks away they are making poor selections in the later rounds. Cooley was a great 3rd round pick, but lets look at their other picks in the mid rounds:

2005

Round 4 Manuel White Jr. FB UCLA
Round 5 Robert McCune LB Louisville
Round 6 Jared Newberry LB Stanford
Round 7 Nehemiah Broughton FB The Citadel

2004

Round 5 Mark Wilson OT California
Round 6 Jim Molinaro OT Notre Dame

Throw in all the trades involving picks, and the draft "team" gets a D at best. The draft isn't just a tool for building a team, its THE tool. No where else can you lock in young talent for 4-5 years at bargain basement prices. Our draft team needs to retire and hand over the reigns to a GM.

SmootSmack · 12-02-2005, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulskinsfan

I pretty much agree with everyting 56Fan has said on this issue. While Gibbs is a good coach, his 2 yrs in the draft room with Snyder/Cerrato have been pretty pathetic. When the trio is not giving picks away they are making poor selections in the later rounds. Cooley was a great 3rd round pick, but lets look at their other picks in the mid rounds:

2005

Round 4 Manuel White Jr. FB UCLA
Round 5 Robert McCune LB Louisville
Round 6 Jared Newberry LB Stanford
Round 7 Nehemiah Broughton FB The Citadel

2004

Round 5 Mark Wilson OT California
Round 6 Jim Molinaro OT Notre Dame

Throw in all the trades involving picks, and the draft "team" gets a D at best. The draft isn't just a tool for building a team, its THE tool. No where else can you lock in young talent for 4-5 years at bargain basement prices. Our draft team needs to retire and hand over the reigns to a GM.

Is it more the fact that we don't have that many picks or the quality of picks that bothers you? Where you expecting them all to be instant starters? I think you need to have a little patience with these guys (except for Newberry and Wilson of course). And don't forget about some of those undrafted free agents that are providing depth now (and getting experience now), but could be key players in a year or two.

11-30-2005, 02:54 PM	#48
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 62 Posts: 10,672	Re: What about a TRUE GM i think 56fanatic and sally jenkins live together,both share the same negative viewpoints on the skins

11-30-2005, 04:45 PM	#50
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: What about a TRUE GM They dont believe in having a down year or two to build and let the team grow, its win now and since that concept has taken over we have not won anything. I just wish people would look around and see the successful franchises and see the common thread there. Its not a hard concept to understand. It appears you don't mind having a down year or two to rebuild. Yet you judge Joe on the basis of 1 1/2 seasons. You state "don't understand why people don't see using ALL rounds of the draft to build a team". I don't disagree with that, and I am sure the SKins staff does not as well. The draft is but ONE TOOL to rebuild. At the time I am sure they weighed the avenue's they had to benefit from and chose what they thought would have the greatest impact now and for the future to provide a MUCH NEEDED transfusion to a dying patient! While I do not liken your posts to Sally Jesse Rafael, Jesse Jackson, or anyone else. However, IMO, you judge the team way harsh and unjustly so. They are on track trying to drag this dead whale off the beach! Save the whales!!!!!!!! __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... *“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs*

11-30-2005, 10:27 PM	#51
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 59 Posts: 3,097	Re: What about a TRUE GM A few guy's beat me to it, but the word is Martz will be out in St.Louis, there's an offensive mind who could extract the talent out of Portis with the way he uses his backs in that system, the problem is I don't think Martz will be an assisitant, I think someone will hire him as a head coach, but he would be perfect for us as offensive coordinator.

12-01-2005, 02:09 PM	#52
jacobyfan Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 45 Posts: 172	Re: What about a TRUE GM I think we should start doing the following: All those who costantly criticize Gibbs, Snyder, et al. need to tell us who THEY would have drafted immediately after the draft. Then we will see how those players pan out. If you do a really good job, I'll help you make your resume to send to Snyder. If you're wrong, we put (jackass) after your forum name for a year.

12-02-2005, 08:04 AM	#54
56FAN Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MANASSAS VA Age: 61 Posts: 323	Re: What about a TRUE GM can we get off the mike williams thing once and for all?. he sat a year before coming in to the pros, the competition is faster stronger smarter and quicker and bigger. he now has a reputation as a practice problem as in he doesn't like to. he's not fast or quick just big. and we had that in mccants who i would have liked to have kept. carlos rogers was a great pick.i believe we got the best of the 3 cb's drafted. it's the later picks we could have picked up someone but the fact is not one drafted wr this year is making a big impact what so ever.edwards was the only wr i was considering for our 1st pick and he was gone.soo, lets put mike williams to sleep and never wake it up again.the way they play rookies here i don't think that his impact here would have been anymore than it is in detroit.especially with his practice problems.

12-02-2005, 08:29 AM	#55
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 19,218	Re: What about a TRUE GM I agree with that. Williams will be a complete bust wherever he plays. Rogers was definitely the best pick. We filled a position of need. I DO agree we could have done better with our 2nd pick. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

12-02-2005, 08:52 AM	#56
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 51 Posts: 99,362	Re: What about a TRUE GM Considering we didn't have a 2nd rounder, yeah we could have done a helluva lot better!

12-02-2005, 01:20 PM	#58
Balmerskinsfan Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 66	Re: What about a TRUE GM Umm, sorry for pointing out the obvious, but a GM does a lot more than simply decide who to draft. GMs manage the entire team under the salary cap. Where the Skins have HUGE ****ING PROBLEMS is managing the team under the cap. Brunell, for example is playing under a 40 million dollar contract, hardly smart management. As long as I can remember, Skins teams have usually featured at least 2-3 overpaid dinosaurs. We could certainly use a formal GM, but its not likely to happen until the Dummy is willing to stop treating the Skins like his personal fantasy team and let a real pro take control.

12-02-2005, 02:18 PM	#59
paulskinsfan Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: West VA Posts: 726	Re: What about a TRUE GM I pretty much agree with everyting 56Fan has said on this issue. While Gibbs is a good coach, his 2 yrs in the draft room with Snyder/Cerrato have been pretty pathetic. When the trio is not giving picks away they are making poor selections in the later rounds. Cooley was a great 3rd round pick, but lets look at their other picks in the mid rounds: 2005 Round 4 Manuel White Jr. FB UCLA Round 5 Robert McCune LB Louisville Round 6 Jared Newberry LB Stanford Round 7 Nehemiah Broughton FB The Citadel 2004 Round 5 Mark Wilson OT California Round 6 Jim Molinaro OT Notre Dame Throw in all the trades involving picks, and the draft "team" gets a D at best. The draft isn't just a tool for building a team, its THE tool. No where else can you lock in young talent for 4-5 years at bargain basement prices. Our draft team needs to retire and hand over the reigns to a GM.

What about a TRUE GM

Locker Room Main Forum