It's Talent, Not Coaching.

[Bushead]

I understand it is a tough loss, and this season didn't turn out to be a Cinderella story where the redskins made the playoffs on a magical 5 - 0 run, but how can so many of you be calling for Mike Shanahan or Hastlett to be gone?

The number one problem with the redskins has been the constant change. With each coach, comes a philosophy. They then and try and shift the roster towards that. With changing every two years, we never give a coach a chance to get the team he wants.

To all the people who want the coaches to be fired, or that you have "lost faith" in their ability to lead a team, prove to me how it is not talent but coaching. I think it's crazy after how each year the redskins are a circus because of new coach, new system that people are so quick to want that all over again. Please prove to me how these following points aren't true about our offense or team overall:

1) We cut ten of our oldest players and somehow are still the oldest team in football. That is quite a serious statement of the lack of youth. Not only that, but none of them really got picked up except Randel-El and Betts.

2) Offense: Name a top 10 player at any position? Cooley. That's it. Our number 1 wide receiver would be a number 3 wide receiver on another team, seriously. Moss has lost a lot of speed and he's a speed receiver - how can he be effective? Seeing that he's our number one should show how bad we are off. Not to mention Joey Galloway being able to crack a starting role.

The whole offensive line has been rebuilt from last year, with Rabach being the only returner (which should tell you how bad it's been). The offensive line simply isn't good. As we all know, that's where it all gets started for an offense.

We were thin at Running back to begin the year, and now we are down to a 3rd down back who wasn't even a full-time starter in college.

Do you expect with such a poor offensive line and WRs who would be backups everywhere else, and a RB that wasn't even on the roster starting day that this offense was going to be a juggernaut?

3) Depth: When a team becomes really good IMO is when you have a certain depth that allows constant match up problems. You have the speedy receiver and a tall one. You have a great Jumbo Package as well as a good Screen set-up, you have a RB that can bruise and one that can take it the distance, etc.

This team simply does not have that. There aren't any play makers that scare the other team. Santana isn't going to burn defenses anymore. There isn't any tall possession receivers to count on. There isn't a variety of RBs to count on to do different things.

4) Comparison: Let's look at Philadelphia. Jackson, Macklin, Avant all playing WR and are all Playmakers with the ability to stretch the field and make catches. They have someone speedy and someone more tall and athletic. Santana Moss, our NUMBER ONE, would be playing NUMBER FOUR, on this team. Think of that.

McCoy is an amazing cut back and agile guy. They can use a lot of screens and he is a threat to take it the distance. They have a strong Tight End who is a good pass catcher. They have a solid offensive line that opens up holes for the RBs and gives whomever is back there time to throw.

So how do you cover Three Wide Receiver Sets? Your Safeties have to play deep so you don't get beat by Desean, so Avant and Macklin get covered by back up CBs because in one-on-one match ups because of the deep threat, you have McCoy who can catch out of the back field and go the distance and then there is Celek who can come out of the backfield or play on the line for a solid gain.

That's a ton of pressure to put on a defense.

Needless to say, we could have anyone coach this team, and what do you really expect them to get from it?

[Texanskin]

good points....we are in year one of a coach that has a proven record of winning by implementing his footprint on the organization.

[SouperMeister]

I agree that we have a lack of overall talent and depth, but I don't pardon Shanahan from fault entirely. He took a consistently solid 4-3 defense, and broke it. The genius of Joe Gibbs was that he adjusted his philosophy to fit the strengths of his personnel. Shanahan has demonstrated an inflexibility that is exasperating at times. I think he should fire his son before he fires Haslett.

[SirClintonPortis]

Mike Shanahan the GM is who I have the most issues with. His coaching has been good, for the most part. However, whoever is responsible for coaching tackling for the D needs to be schooled or fired.

[mooby]

I think you keep underrating Moss as so many others on this forum have, but you make a good point. Look at the guys playing for us now, and I'll point out exactly what guys that are starting now on our team probably don't need to be starting and what holes will need to be filled going into next season. Don't create a hole with Moss where it doesn't exist. Moss is about the closest thing to dependable as a receiver is on this team. His big plays obviously haven't been many recently, but he is consistent. All this talk about how he would be a #4 on the Eagles is completely stupid.

On offense, yes, we have a lack of a talent.

QB: I'd trade Rex or Beck for a rookie quarterback that we draft after this season, especially since there will be quite a decent pool of good qb's in the draft this year. We all know McNabb will be back next year and for future seasons.

RB: I don't put much emphasis on this position, I don't know what direction they will go with this next year. We might see Williams/Torain/Portis/Davis in the backfield next year, if the coaches determine the offensive line is a bigger problem than the running backs in the backfield. Right now I think the coaches are trying to judge who to keep between James Davis, Torain, and Williams. It doesn't help that Torain isn't on the field right now because the coaches' recent comments haven't been in his favor. And same goes for Portis, he will definitely be on the block after this season, unless the coaches determine he's put in the work again and deserves another shot with the Skins. Or he might not get healthy and the coaches will dump him. There's def. question marks at this position heading into next year.

FB: I want to dump Mike Sellers. Idk about the coaches, I mean he's a decent pass catcher but he has too many drops for my liking and his blocking is hit or miss, literally. I either see him deliver a great block or whiff completely and look the fool. He's not consistent anymore.

WR: Moss should stay, as will Armstrong. Banks will def. stay as well. I'd like to see Armstrong more as a #3, and maybe we could get a young talented wideout to step into the #2 role like Dez Bryant in Dallas. Roydell Williams can go for all I care, and Terrance Austin is a question mark.

TE: I think Cooley will be traded. We need the picks, he's expendable with Fred Davis on the roster, and I don't think the coaches will mind Logan Paulsen as the backup. TE is a position of luxury for us right now, and we aren't making the most of it.

Offensive line:

Starting 5: T.Williams will be staying obviously, I think we should upgrade the entire interior of the line (Lichtensteiger can go back to being a backup, Rabach can retire for all I care, and even though I like Will Montgomery I want a talent upgrade at the position. He can stay as a backup too). Jammal Brown can stay and start too, I want to see what he looks like when he's 100% healthy before we make a determination on him.

If Stephon Heyer is gone I won't be too disappointed, but he does offer a little value as a backup, so I wouldn't be suprised if he stayed. Dockery will be gone, and Artis Hicks can be a backup I suppose, although they might seek an upgrade for our depth.

Defense:

Starting Unit as of now:

Kareem Moore - can go back to being a backup. We need to seek a better option for free safety.
Laron Landry - staying obviously.
Carlos Rogers - I really hope he stays, he may not be a playmaker but he does a good job limiting opposing wideouts. If he goes that's just another hole we have to fill.
D.Hall - stays, he's the exact opposite of Rogers, in that he's a gambler, but he does make plays, as well as give up plays too.
Lorenzo Alexander - love ya, but I would seek a talent upgrade. He'd still be here obviously because he's very valuable with his skill set.
Rocky McIntosh - I heard he's trade bait, and I kinda won't be suprised if he's not here next season. He's a decent player, and he's had a couple games where he's made huge plays, but he's also had his share of disappointing moments. Potential hole to fill here.
Fletch - I'd keep him but draft a guy to eventually be his replacement.
Orakpo - Stays obviously, I think we need to get a playmaker to go on the other side to help because he's obviously frustrated that nobody else is stepping up while they are devoting all their attention to stopping him.
Adam Carriker - I don't think he's that bad (def. not eye-splitting good either) but we might seek a talent upgrade and put him in a depth role. He's probably the least of our worries on the d-line.
Ma'ake Kemoeatu/Albert Haynesworth - Kemoeatu needs to move to a depth role and I think we should all know by now that Haynesworth needs to go this offseason. We need a definite talent upgrade at the nose tackle position.
Golston/Daniels - I think we need another talent upgrade here too. Golston hasn't shown anything and I think Daniels might retire after this season, just judging from his comments in the article I posted earlier about Haynesworth. Golston might stay, or might not, idk, but he's another question mark either way.

Special Teams:

Kicker - Gano can stay. He's not the best, especially considering he's never hit a 50 yarder, but we can do worse. I'll start getting concerned when he starts shanking 20-30 yarders like Suisham used to do.

Punter: I don't think Hunter Smith has impressed since he came back, but we've got enough problems this offseason that coaches might let this one slide.

Long Snapper: Might see an upgrade, might not. I haven't exactly seen bad long-snapping from Sundberg yet, but I've heard about it in postgame comments. But obviously not a priority position heading into the offseason.

Coach wise the only one I can see being iffy is Haslett, simply because our defense has been historically bad this season. That and Shanny has always had a typically short leash with defensive coordinators, and combine that with Haslett not being his first choice.

So from my point of view it looks like the 'Skins will be seeing another roster turnover makeover this offseason. It remains to be seen what percentage of moves will be made through the draft and free agency (I'd prefer trying to get more picks and using the draft to fill the big needs, and using free agency sparingly) but as we all know that has never happened and it might stay that way this offseason.

[jamf]

Moss is our only player defenses game plan for. He is the reason Armstrong is facing single coverage. He's not Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson but he is the only weapon we have. It annoys me to hear the tall vs fast WR argument. How about we get guys who can play?

[sdskinsfan2001]

For next season the Redskins need to keep Trent Williams and bring up Selvish Capers/Erik Cook from the practice squad and release every other player on their O-Line. Then use their 1st and 2nd round picks on O-Lineman to get two more talented players. After the draft sign a bunch of young free agents and see if they can find any players to build some YOUNG depth. Till we get a solid O-Line our offense will continue to stink. We have to be able to run the ball to set up playaction and the longball.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

For next season the Redskins need to keep Trent Williams and bring up Selvish Capers/Erik Cook from the practice squad and release every other player on their O-Line. Then use their 1st and 2nd round picks on O-Lineman to get two more talented players. After the draft sign a bunch of young free agents and see if they can find any players to build some YOUNG depth. Till we get a solid O-Line our offense will continue to stink. We have to be able to run the ball to set up playaction and the longball.

Do you keep reposting this same post in every thread?

Edit: Wow lol, that is the 4th time you've reposted that same exact post. fail.

[Defensewins]

It is mostly a talent issue, but I agree with SouperMeister, Shanahan and Haslett do not get a free ride or get absolved of some of the issues. The defense's play is not progressing, in fact is regressing.
We have enough talent on that side of the ball that we should not be getting killed and run over in week week 8 or week 10 or 11 like we did.
I also fault the coaches for the way they are using the players and leaving other more talented players on the bench or in the wrong position. That is the coaches.

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

It is mostly a talent issue

The Redskins fanbase has quite simply forgotten what a talented team looks like.

Me included.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

It is mostly a talent issue, but I agree with SouperMeister, Shanahan and Haslett do not get a free ride or get absolved of some of the issues. The defense's play is not progressing, in fact is regressing.
We have enough talent on that side of the ball that we should not be getting killed and run over in week week 8 or week 10 or 11 like we did.
I also fault the coaches for the way they are using the players and leaving other more talented players on the bench or in the wrong position. That is the coaches.

Agreed, and probably the most disappointing event of the last four games. The offense has progressed. The defense has regressed. The last four games look a lot like the Zorn era in terms of what we do well/not so well.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

The Redskins fanbase has quite simply forgotten what a talented team looks like.

Me included.

What is this talent concept you speak of? Is it based on contract size because if thats the case we have a LOT of talent.

[mooby]

So I was bored and I decided to spend some time looking at point margins in the NFL, and I know you shouldn't read very largely into point margins at the end of games simply because they can be deceiving. But if a team wins, say 31-6, there's no doubt who the better team was that day, or you could have a team win 27-24 and think it was a close game when the fact of the matter was it was never really close at all, until the final whistle.

I guess my whole point is I made a sample size (teams that win by 10 points or more) and analyzed it against all 13 weeks of the NFL season so far to see who was the best and who was the worst. Through 13 weeks only 2 NFL teams have not won a single game by 10 or more points. And those two teams are Washington and Carolina. Now I'm not saying we're Carolina bad, Carolina being 1-11 and the very worst team in the league, and most likely Andrew Luck's future team, but our largest margin of victory is 6 points, achieved in Week 1 against the Cowboys (2nd largest, 1st meeting with Philly, 5 point margin of victory), but I feel like it shows just exactly what kind of team we are, one that fights hard, but has to scrape to pull out every victory, and I doubt we'll beat a team thorougly enough this season that the outcome won't be in doubt heading into the final minutes. That's just indicative of how we play this season. We either get blown out, or it's a close battle that comes down to the wire.

And if anybody wants to know who leads the league in victories by point margins of 10 more, here's the list, up until this point at Week 13, not including Jets/Pats because that has yet to be played.

5 victories of 10 or more points:
Philadelphia, NYG, New England

4 victories of 10 or more points:
Seattle, St. Louis, New Orleans, Green Bay, Indy, Tennessee (with none coming after week 7), San Diego, Kansas City

3 victories of 10 or more points:
Dallas, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Chicago, NY Jets, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Jacksonville, Oakland

2 victories of 10 or more points:
Detroit, Minnesota, Miami, Cleveland, Houston, Denver

1 victory of 10 or more points:
Arizona, San Fransisco, Cincinnati, Buffalo

No victories of 10 or more points:
Washington, Carolina

Now don't read into this too much, as more often than not a large margin of victory doesn't mean anything other than one team had everything go right for it one day. I was just bored and decided to look up the stats. But I do feel like this is indicative how much talent we have, and how much trouble we have closing out games.

Our 5 wins

13-7 against Dallas
17-12 against Philadelphia
16-13 against Green Bay (OT)
17-14 against Chicago
19-16 against Tennessee (OT)

I'll end this by saying I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin.

[SolidSnake84]

All points above i mostly agree with. It's the truth. We don't have good players. Shanahan is doing the best he can with bad players. The defense has been ruined. We need to totally blow up this roster next year. WE HAVE TO GET YOUNGER!!!

Everybody says how great McNabb is, but he had his worst outing as a pro yesterday, and he is having the worst season since he was a rookie. He is 34 years old, right?? He isn't going to improve, at this point he will regress, as any older QB does, with the exception of a few like Favre, Garcia, etc....

Let's hold out hope for a strong finish, but i dont think it will happen. 6-10 maybe the best we can do.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

I agree that we have a lack of overall talent and depth, but I don't pardon Shanahan from fault entirely. He took a consistently solid 4-3 defense, and broke it. The genius of Joe Gibbs was that he adjusted his philosophy to fit the strengths of his personnel. Shanahan has demonstrated an inflexibility that is exasperating at times. I think he should fire his son before he fires Haslett.

See, I just don't agree with this at all. People seem to think that if it weren't for Jim Haslett and occasional use of the 3 - 4, the D would be back to top ten form.

The guys we have playing defense aren't that good, the players who were good in seasons past are deteriorating, and it wouldn't matter if we had Greg Blache or Gregg Williams running the 4 -3 100% of the time -- I maintain that the D would be just as bad either way.