08-29-2009, 01:14 PM | #61 | |
Pro Bowl
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
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If there was one facet of the defense that I've had any concerns about it's the secondary. I like DeAngelo Hall, and I think it was a wise move to sign him, but to say there was a competition between him and Randy Moss is like saying there's competition between bugs and windshields. Good thing we don't have to see him twice a year. I do wonder how different it would have been with Rogers on the field. And to be fair, we did eventually put up some resistance later in the second quarter. |
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08-29-2009, 01:22 PM | #62 |
Warpath Hall of Fame
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
Yeah I agree with that. Im also gonna play the "its only preseason" card right now. The same one that was being played when JC struggled his first couple preseason games. Carlos presence on the field is a factor as well, but if there is any coach I have full faith in, its Coach Blanche. He will have things tightened up by the start of season and continue to add wrinkles as the season goes on. Im not stressing about the D at all, just want to see the Offense to continue to do the type of things it did last night.
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08-29-2009, 01:34 PM | #63 | |
Camp Scrub
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
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08-29-2009, 01:41 PM | #64 |
The Starter
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
Pick 6's and fumble returns are great but if we have to depend on those to win we are already in trouble.
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08-29-2009, 01:44 PM | #65 | |
Fire Bruce NOW
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
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Pitt 13.9 Tenn 14.6 Balt 15.3 Phil 18.1 NYG 18.4 Wash 18.5 Technically, then, we were not in the top 5 in terms of points allowed. Further, the top 3 defenses were at least a field goal better per game than we were, which argues that we were not "elite," perhaps. Like I said, I agree with you in essence. A defense which finishes #6 in points allowed is a very good defense. But let's get the facts straight.
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Bruce Allen when in charge alone: 4-12 (.250) Bruce Allen's overall Redskins record : 28-52 (.350) Vinny Cerrato's record when in charge alone: 52-65 (.444) Vinny's overall Redskins record: 62-82 (.430) We won more with Vinny |
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08-29-2009, 01:51 PM | #66 | |
Camp Scrub
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
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08-29-2009, 01:55 PM | #67 | |
Living Legend
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
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2 - If they had lower per game numbers including playoffs (Top competition, i think we all agree) and their numbers are still lower then ours, I would argue that makes Lotus' point more true not less. |
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08-29-2009, 01:59 PM | #68 | |
Fire Bruce NOW
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
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NFL Stats: by Team Category Notice that these stats are league-wide for the 2008 regular season.
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Bruce Allen when in charge alone: 4-12 (.250) Bruce Allen's overall Redskins record : 28-52 (.350) Vinny Cerrato's record when in charge alone: 52-65 (.444) Vinny's overall Redskins record: 62-82 (.430) We won more with Vinny |
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08-29-2009, 02:51 PM | #69 | |
Playmaker
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
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Speaking of no pass rush, did you enjoy the privledge of listening to what Greg Blache had to say to Trevor Matich in the post-game interview on Comcast last night? I found it to be quite interesting. |
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08-29-2009, 03:09 PM | #70 | |
Uncle Phil
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
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08-29-2009, 03:23 PM | #71 | |
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
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I think a lot of people agree with you, but I do not and will not because this argument simply doesn't hold very much water with me. I completely understand where you are coming from, re: points are points, but that simply doesn't tell yo enough to draw a realistic conclusion from on the strength of the defense. You may think it's the only thing that matters, but then we're just not looking at the same things. I don't really even looked at points scored when determining defensive quality. That's how irrelevant it is to me. So to say that your "use all" way of determining the good from the bad doesn't matter to me would be an understatement. I could care less how many points we give up this year if we make a measurable improvement over last year. We could conceivably finish 9th or 10th in points allowed and make a big defensive jump--but you might have to be able to look past PA to see that. You know there's little that gets under my skin more than "I disagree because I'm too lazy to think past this point", but understanding that my opinion is in the minority and that it writes a pretty good narrative to just blame the offense for everything, I'll not carry out the point too long. The bottom line though, is that the defense has plenty of room for improvement. We're definately improved in the front seven, so it's on the secondary if we get a better effort this year.
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08-29-2009, 03:29 PM | #72 |
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
And admittedly, the offensive numbers don't look very good if you remove the 4-1 start from the equation. In the final 11 games, we were a demonstrably below average offense.
The defensive numbers were just very vanilla the *entire* season, and while the points against ranking is certainly a function of the consistency the defense showed all season, the defense had no margin for error at the end of the season, and completely collapsed. I've always maintained: I have no idea if the defense was more to blame for the offense. When we were a great team, we combined highly efficient offense with strong, solid defense. When we were a horrible team, we had inept offense, and swiss cheese defense. When we were in the middle, we were mediocre on both units. That's just sort of the way it's always been.
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08-29-2009, 03:45 PM | #73 |
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
The big problem, in my eyes, is not that anyone could think that a defense that gives up 18.5 PPG is doing it's job. It probably is. It's when you extrapolate from the figure there that the blame for 8-8 MUST lie somewhere else since the defense does an above average job of preventing the opponent from scoring. There's nothing in logic or reason that says you know enough from that one number to make that leap of faith.
Ergo, saying the defense is "top five" is a really big leap of faith, and probably doesn't hold up once I bring double-digit win teams who win with defense into the discussion. That's the last word from me, for now.
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08-29-2009, 04:20 PM | #74 | |
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
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Thanks!! Smack for the link. |
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08-29-2009, 04:55 PM | #75 |
Camp Scrub
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Re: Redskins' Secondary Woes
[QUOTE=GTripp0012;581805]It's difficult to take you too seriously if we're ahead of double digit win teams like Tennessee and Minnesota on defense, despite all the offensive issues that those teams had as well (aside from the fact that one of those teams was a better offense than us, the advantage was on defense).
I think a lot of people agree with you, but I do not and will not because this argument simply doesn't hold very much water with me. I completely understand where you are coming from, re: points are points, but that simply doesn't tell yo enough to draw a realistic conclusion from on the strength of the defense. You may think it's the only thing that matters, but then we're just not looking at the same things. I don't really even looked at points scored when determining defensive quality. That's how irrelevant it is to me. So to say that your "use all" way of determining the good from the bad doesn't matter to me would be an understatement. I could care less how many points we give up this year if we make a measurable improvement over last year. We could conceivably finish 9th or 10th in points allowed and make a big defensive jump--but you might have to be able to look past PA to see that. You know there's little that gets under my skin more than "I disagree because I'm too lazy to think past this point", but understanding that my opinion is in the minority and that it writes a pretty good narrative to just blame the offense for everything, I'll not carry out the point too long. GTripp, GTripp, GTripp, you really ought to write a book. I didn't know what part of that rant to quote, it's hard to take me seriously and it gets under your skin when a person "is to lazy to look past one point," well sir practice what you preach. Yes, this defense has room to improve but the fact that you don't know if the defense is to blame for the offensive woes, and that you could care a less about points allowed as long as we improve, and all this logic stuff tells me that it is probably best that you remain a sports blog philosopher/bully and not a football coach because at the very end of the day it is about wins and losses and defenses help teams win by keeping points off the board. You can miss the forest for the trees and worry about how statistically sound we are I'll take a defense that gives up 18.5ppg and an offense that can score 19. |
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