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So far this offseason

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Old 02-26-2004, 02:12 AM   #1
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So far this offseason

I would like to say hi to everyone who will read this. This is my first post here. With that being said lets talk football.

First thing, I am not still sold on the Mark Brunell trade. I mean I can see where Gibbs is going he wants security, but that is a lot of money for someone who is near the end of there career. I only hope that PR can get over it and try to hold on to his starting job.

Second, the Bailey-Portis trade. I am not really sure where I stand on this issue. If we are going to lose Bailey, why not get something in return? If the Lions are no longer a possibility than take the next best deal. I don't however like the fact that the Redskins will be loosing there second round pick for Portis. I may be the only one who thinks this, but what about Rock Cartwright? I mean he did do pretty good last season when he had to carry the load because of the other running backs being hurt. He kinda reminded me of another running back that started out as a fullback, and I am talking about Steven Davis. Yes, Steven Davis is 100% better than Rock Cartwright but even Davis had to start out somewhere. Most of Rocks yards last season did come from running between the tackles and not outside.

That is all that I have to say for now, and thank you for reading.
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:02 AM   #2
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Mark Brunell is in good health and may play for a long while yet. He is immensely talented. What other quarterback are we supposed to put in there right now? Pat Ramsey is too young and inexperienced for a team to totally rely on. The Redskins are gearing up to make a run at the Super Bowl in the next few years, and we need a quarterback who can lead the way. Ramsey will have time to learn from Gibbs, the staff, and Brunell. He will fill in if Brunell gets nicked up. His time will come, hopefully not too soon, to be a starter again. That was a great move in my book.

The Portis trade is based on the idea that he is a runner of truly rare ability. That is the evalution made on him. Some people say, well Quentin Griffin got 130 yards one game against the run defense poor Colts, so that shows its just the Broncos' system. Yes the Broncos have developed some good runners lately, guys who have gained over 1000 yards, even 1500. They have a great eye for running back talent. But is Portis someone super special? I think he is, personally.

Mortensen on ESPN says that Gibbs runners in the past were bigger. So what, Mort? Times they are a changin. Maybe you need more speed now in your primary runner. That said, I'm sure we will have another running back for balance who will have more bulk.

Should we have thrown in the 2nd round draft choice? I think it came down to the Broncos being unwilling to make the trade if they didn't get that pick thrown in. We made the decision that this was the best value we were going to get in trading Bailey. I think it was the right call. Were we better off taking the Lions' first round pick and keeping our 2nd? Perhaps, but I doubt it. That would mean possibly drafting either Udeze or Taylor with the Lions pick, and having the 2nd rounder. Is that better than having Clinton Portis?
On the evalution that Portis is super special, the answer in my mind is probably no.
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:24 AM   #3
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This column in the Rocky Mountain News really puts in perspective what an incredible talent Clinton Portis is.

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Old 02-26-2004, 11:33 AM   #4
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Thumbs down

Sounds like they will really miss Portis, but I just hate giving up a 2nd. They may say that CP touches the ball more and has a more of an impact on the game. Injury wise Champ should be healthier and last longer than Portis.
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Old 02-26-2004, 11:44 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Skins fan 44
Sounds like they will really miss Portis, but I just hate giving up a 2nd. They may say that CP touches the ball more and has a more of an impact on the game. Injury wise Champ should be healthier and last longer than Portis.
Depends on the cap numbers. If we get enough dough to sign another FA, it's worth it. The second rounder can be made up in FA, if we get the cash.
Hail from Houston!
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Old 02-26-2004, 12:14 PM   #6
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Defensive needs

I read this morning that the Skins were considering Grant Wistrom instead J.Kearse, because of his cap number. I wouldn't mind either of the two eventhough Kearse has had his injuries. I think if we grab one of those guys and Shawn Springs to replace Bailey, we should be able to move down in the draft and get one of the DT's like Wilfork or Starks ( U-MD ). I do like Sean Taylor though, and he is an impact player. I was also thinking that we can trade Trotter who has a huge cap number, and get some picks if not a 2nd round pick. That will leave us with a lot of cap space and we can go after Ed Hartwell in Baltimore ( Ray Lewis's backup ) to replace Trotter.

Thats just me and my imagination, you guys can reply and give your own perspective. REDSKINS PRIDE!
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Old 02-26-2004, 12:21 PM   #7
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Nothing against anyone here personally, but I really do not understand the constant negativity about the moves made so far. I guess Gibbs's handful of rings and Super Bowl trophies is not good enough of a resume for him. Will you people PLEASE trust him?

a) Brunell. A good, veteran QB, when Ramsey can groom under him and be a more-than-capable backup if (more probably when) Brunell gets hurt. I like this deal and am glad it was made. Brunell probably has a few solid years left and if not, Ramsey can be there. Do people really think it's better to just have Ramsey, who is still learning and coming off surgery, and some shmuck backup like Hasselback??

b) Bailey. He doesn't want to be here!!! He's gone anyway soon so we might as well get a back to back 1,500 yard rusher for him. Portis would be such a huge grab for us, I am happy with the trade, even with the second rounder tossed in. I get more and more excited about this trade when I read Denver papers or fan boards and hear how disappointed most of them are about losing Portis. This guy is very, very good. The bottom line with Bailey is he doesn't want to be here anymore, and with a good stock of FAs out there, a solid replacement can be found. IMHO a guy who can carry the ball 20-25 times behind a rebuilt offensive line is much more valuable then one cornerback who is involved maybe 7-8 plays a game.

Maybe I'm a little older (I didn't think I was) but I remember when Gibbs was here before...I am not going to question the man. He got here a little over a month ago and has obviously already dissected the team and has a plan for improvement. Let him work!! It's not even March yet, it's not like the season is starting tomorrow. Yes the defense has holes...but they can be filled...and having a very good RB like Portis will also help the defense, they won't be out there practically the whole game anymore.

Folks have to realize this whole team's philosophy has been exploded and is being re-made. With Gibbs in charge and people like Williams running the defense, this team will be MUCH improved next year. Let them work...if things still look the same in August then start to worry and complain.
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Old 02-26-2004, 12:28 PM   #8
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First let me say that it is hard to evaluate how the offseason is going since there hasn’t been a single trade or free agent pickup yet.

Second, I HATE the Brunell deal. I am Ramseyfan so I think everyone knows why I hate this deal first and foremost. Moreover, I think we are vastly overpaying for Brunell’s services. Yes Brunell was a great quarterback for many years and yes in theory he could further tutor Ramsey to bring his development along and yes he brings experience. But, he’s too old, has a history of injuries (see multiple concussions), he cost us a high third rounder, he got an $8 million bonus (which, by itself is enough for me to hate the deal as it is worth more than Ramsey’s entire 5 year deal), he has be known to be a locker room cancer, and he has a history of not helping his backups/competition develop (see Byron Leftwich).

For the money we paid Brunell, we could have gotten Jeff Blake or Jay Fiedler as a backup (who are both experienced, better than most think, and pretty cheap) AND gotten a free agent like Shawn Springs AND drafted someone at the top of the third round.

While I worship Joe Gibbs, WHAT IN THE HELL WAS HE THINKING! Yes I am aware that it is always good to have two good quarterbacks, but Ramsey is a great quarterback, he took a major ass whooping for the team, is well respected by the team, is very hard working, is loved by the fans, and he doesn’t cost us much. Moreover, if Gibbs, Bugel, the oline, and Portis do their jobs, Ramsey should be very well protected. So, in my mind, either Gibbs doesn’t trust Ramsey or he doesn’t trust the Oline and Bugel.

As to the Portis-Bailey deal, I love it. While I would prefer not to give up a second round pick to Denver, I’d take the trade as is. Yes, Bailey is a superstar, yes Bailey is young, yes Bailey is the premiere cornerback in the league, and yes cornerbacks are harder to come by than tailbacks. That said, this is why the Bailey deal was good for us: first, Bailey did not want to be in D.C. and his wife did not want to be in D.C. for a variety of reasons, it’s not a good idea to try to keep players who don’t want to be here, Bailey’s contract would have cost us close to $9 million a year, we have a ton of leverage in Portis’ deal since he is already under contract, even if we renegotiate his deal he will cost a lot less than $9 million a year with a signing bonus of about $18 million, Portis is younger than Bailey and even though he’s a tailback I expect him to be in the league as long as Bailey, Portis is a monster (see 3,000 in his freshman and sophomore years), Portis is monster regardless of the o-line and the system (see clips of Portis’ juking and sprinting), while a good CB is tougher to come by than a good RB a good RB is worth FAR more than a good CB to the team, the FA cornerback market is great while the FA running back market is pathetic, Portis will bring the ‘Skins more publicity, respect and money, Detroit is no longer interested in the deal so forget about getting picks from them, the Jets offer is awful, and no one else has something to give us that comes close to Portis.

That said, take Portis, forget Brunell, get those free agents the WT noted were the ‘Skins targets, and I’ll give my final verdict on the ‘Skins offseason once all of that is said and done.
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Old 02-26-2004, 12:31 PM   #9
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While I do worship Gibbs, I will question his moves (just as I would anyone else's). Just because he was great for D.C. doesn't mean he can;t make dumb decisions or be unsuccessful (Yes I know that's blasphemy). Anyone who knows anything about how successful the great Vince Lombardi was here in D.C. will understand why I reluctant to give Gibbs a free pass on every move he makes.
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Old 02-26-2004, 12:32 PM   #10
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Coach Gibbs has a proven track record, not just in the NFL. I will believe in him absolutely until we see back to back sub .500 seasons (which ain't gonna happen).

Go Redskins!
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Old 02-26-2004, 12:46 PM   #11
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New guys!

New guys! Welcome!

RFKRat, isn't that you, RedskinsRat?

I agree. Brunell = Good Value, #9 all time QB, Higher QB Rating than Ram! Has playoff experience.

Impact to Ram = The great unkown. But last time I checked, Ram doesn't have 3 SB rings, hasn't won a playoff game, and is coming off an injury which leaves him questionable at best, so he has no basis to grouse and complain.

Portis = Great, no, really great value! One of only three guys ever to gain over 1500 yds in their first two years! Special runner!

Cap Room gained from players dropped, and Champ leaving = Great move for more money available to spend.

Speaking of Champ, it is more about not being able to afford so many people who deserve their just due! We offered, he chose not to accept. He deserves everything he will probably get from the Broncs.

FA = LDS's favorite time of year! Time to warm up the Jet or Jets to get the guys on cousinvinnie's list.

Best pick-up in off-season = HOF Coach Gibbs. Give him his props! Knows football, what he wants and how to get there!

Draft = With only 2 picks this year, we cannot be worse off than last year, now can we??? HOF Coach Gibbs has actually stated what many here have proposed, and that is to drop back in the draft to pick up more players. The Jury is still out on this area, but we have until Draft Day, April 2004, after all!

Needs = Fulfilled between coaching, FA pick-ups and the Draft. Don't get your pants all in a bunch!
'37, '42, '83, '88, '92. Championship!
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