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Vince Young overrated?

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Old 11-20-2007, 11:42 AM   #166
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
I thought the kid looked pretty good tonight. His wr's are the worst in the NFL.
While I wouldn't say the worst, but they didn't help him last night. I think he did well but his D was giving up big plays all night and he couldn't keep up. The last INT was stupid but he had to take a shot down by 2 TDs.
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:46 AM   #167
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
I thought the kid looked pretty good tonight. His wr's are the worst in the NFL.
Yeah he really doesn't have much help in that department.
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:50 AM   #168
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

I hate to make the obvious statement but it seems as though his situation is very simlar to what Vick's was.

Parallels:

Super mobile
Not a very good passer (yet)
Bad Wideouts
Great Running Game
Wins despite overall poor stats
Decent to strong defense.

With all that said, I think VY will be better than vick as a passer but I don't know by how much.
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:55 AM   #169
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy View Post
With all that said, I think VY will be better than vick as a passer but I don't know by how much.
I agree.

At the very least, Vince sets his feet and throws. It doesn't seem to be helping all that much, but at least he's fundamentally sound.
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:59 AM   #170
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy View Post
I hate to make the obvious statement but it seems as though his situation is very simlar to what Vick's was.

Parallels:

Super mobile
Not a very good passer (yet)
Bad Wideouts
Great Running Game
Wins despite overall poor stats
Decent to strong defense.

With all that said, I think VY will be better than vick as a passer but I don't know by how much.
True. But in light of Atlanta's woes without Vick, it seems like Vick was a good player if mediocre to poor passer? Vince is overrated by many, but like Vick he's a playmaker.
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Old 11-20-2007, 12:02 PM   #171
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
True. But in light of Atlanta's woes without Vick, it seems like Vick was a good player if mediocre to poor passer? Vince is overrated by many, but like Vick he's a playmaker.
Vick's value to his team was declining with age, for obvious reasons, and because of receiving the richest deal in all of sports at the time, his cap number was skyrocketing.

To me, I see that Vince has the ability to stick in this league because he will improve throwing over time. It's just that, by the time he figures it out, he will no longer be a dual threat guy. He's never going to live up to the potential of the 3rd overall pick.
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Old 11-20-2007, 12:04 PM   #172
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
True. But in light of Atlanta's woes without Vick, it seems like Vick was a good player if mediocre to poor passer? Vince is overrated by many, but like Vick he's a playmaker.
Yeah, atlanta is a sorry football team right now, no doubt. I wonder if some of these guys who have such overwhelming physical skills have trouble trusting a scheme/play? It seems like Vick and Young both have such tremendous talent that they always trust their own ability before the coach's gameplan. Maybe the correct term is Playbreaker instead of playmaker since they have a history of making huge individual plays and they have a tendency to abandon the plan in favor of putting the game on their back.
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Old 11-20-2007, 12:07 PM   #173
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy View Post
Yeah, atlanta is a sorry football team right now, no doubt. I wonder if some of these guys who have such overwhelming physical skills have trouble trusting a scheme/play? It seems like Vick and Young both have such tremendous talent that they always trust their own ability before the coach's gameplan. Maybe the correct term is Playbreaker instead of playmaker since they have a history of making huge individual plays and they have a tendency to abandon the plan in favor of putting the game on their back.
Good point. Great running skills are definately a double edged sword if used improperly, IMO. You can pick up crucial first downs, but you can also miss open receivers that good out of the pocket QBs like McNabb, Romo, Palmer...etc would turn into big passing plays.
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Old 11-20-2007, 06:51 PM   #174
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
True. But in light of Atlanta's woes without Vick, it seems like Vick was a good player if mediocre to poor passer? Vince is overrated by many, but like Vick he's a playmaker.
Vick may not be the classic pocket guy, and he is a bad dude, but when you take him off Atl. they are a bad team as the eveidence shows. If you put him in the lineup they are probably 500. When he is on the field the defenses have to defend differently. The guy rushed for over a 1,000 yards. So that probably tells you his value.
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Old 11-20-2007, 07:04 PM   #175
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

As long as Norm Chow is leading the offense, he'll find ways to maximize Young. He's known to groom quarterbacks and VY will flourish under him.
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Old 11-20-2007, 11:34 PM   #176
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
True. But in light of Atlanta's woes without Vick, it seems like Vick was a good player if mediocre to poor passer? Vince is overrated by many, but like Vick he's a playmaker.
Yeah, I picked Atlanta as my sleeper this season for that very reason: if Vick is so mediocre then there shouldn't be that great a drop-off resulting from his absence. This was a strong team that had to totally collapse to miss the playoffs the last two years.

The fact that they are such a joke now has to lend Vick the QB at least a little heightened cachet right?
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Old 11-21-2007, 10:01 AM   #177
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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Yeah, I picked Atlanta as my sleeper this season for that very reason: if Vick is so mediocre then there shouldn't be that great a drop-off resulting from his absence. This was a strong team that had to totally collapse to miss the playoffs the last two years.

The fact that they are such a joke now has to lend Vick the QB at least a little heightened cachet right?
While I might be a little biased because I went to VT, but I think that this whole "Vick is overrated" in itself overrated. Everyone is just repeating it after hearing on ESPN or reading in some sports magazine. Yes he is not the best QB out there but he is a great player.

He is showing how valuable he was to Atlanta by not being there right now.

I think the problem was that they spent too much money on Vick and the D that they couldn't bring in decent WRs. Name me the pro bowl receivers that played with Vick. Also, look at Brady and how much better his numbers look with a new set of receivers. There were countless times when I saw White and Lellie drop very very catchable balls.
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:01 PM   #178
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
Vick may not be the classic pocket guy, and he is a bad dude, but when you take him off Atl. they are a bad team as the eveidence shows. If you put him in the lineup they are probably 500. When he is on the field the defenses have to defend differently. The guy rushed for over a 1,000 yards. So that probably tells you his value.
Atlanta is having massive issues this year that really don't have anything to do with the QB. Harrington is playing pretty well, surprisingly. I couldn't see this team a lot better with Vick, because they wouldn't have a passing game, and although they would have a running game, the D would still be downright awful.

When was the last time anyone heard the name "John Abraham"?
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:10 PM   #179
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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While I might be a little biased because I went to VT, but I think that this whole "Vick is overrated" in itself overrated. Everyone is just repeating it after hearing on ESPN or reading in some sports magazine. Yes he is not the best QB out there but he is a great player.

He is showing how valuable he was to Atlanta by not being there right now.

I think the problem was that they spent too much money on Vick and the D that they couldn't bring in decent WRs. Name me the pro bowl receivers that played with Vick. Also, look at Brady and how much better his numbers look with a new set of receivers. There were countless times when I saw White and Lellie drop very very catchable balls.
Back in 2002 when he had started playing, the emphasis was not on team speed on D back then. His running skills had never been seen before and his passing acumen was benefiting from that because teams already had no solution to his running skills, and thus could never really play their game. He was great because he was 23 years old, and no one could stop his game.

Since then, everyone got faster on defense. Yes, he rushed for 1,000 yards last season, but that's because he ran it 119 times, a lot more than he did (or needed to) in 2002.

If you add the value of his runs to that of his horrible passing, you come out with a player who's overall value is somewhere around the level of Eli Manning, or JP Losman. Additionally, to get his true value out of running, you have to decrease the carries the RB is getting, and put the ball in Vicks hands more. This increases the risk of turnovers by a lot.

Even if he was playing now, and leading all QBs in rushing yards, he still wouldn't be very good. A small upgrade over Harrington? Possibly. Would this awful Falcons team be a playoff contender? Not even close.
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Old 11-22-2007, 12:17 AM   #180
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Re: Vince Young overrated?

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
He's looking pretty smart, accurate, and impressive tonight, notwithstanding an awful lot of key drops by his wideouts.
While I agree, he did look better than normal on that monday night game, I think you are over valueing his play.
Yes, he did have a lot of drops, but he was also off on several throws including his touchdown pass. He also, yet again, had too many turnovers.
Like I said, he did play better, but even Vick would have games where he looked good only to give fans false hope, then he would shatter them the following week with poor play. I'm sure VY will will have a horrible game again. I mean, the guy has 5 passing tds, and a whopping 12 int's. You can only blame your WR's so much.
Just in case anyone has missed it, he has 2 passing tds and 6 ints in the past3 games. (and he's 1-2 in those games)
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