Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1277789]19: R1 P19 OT Christian Darrisaw - Virginia Tech
51: R2 P19 QB Mac Jones - Alabama
74: R3 P10 WR Amon-Ra St. Brown - USC
82: R3 P18 S Paris Ford - Pittsburgh
124: R4 P19 CB Robert Rochell - Central Arkansas
164: R5 P19 LB Charles Snowden - UVA
243: R7 P17 TE Quintin Morris - Bowling Green
245: R7 P19 G Brenden Jaimes - Nebraska[/quote]

Darrisaw or JOK in the first round is my vote. If Jones somehow fell into the bottom of the first round (don’t think this will happen realistically) how would you feel about trading back up into the 1st round to get him. Our 2nd and a late round pick may do it. Is that considered a value pick? Maybe not, but it’s definitely intriguing. Just like QBs are over drafted every year, there are always reached and players they fall unexpectedly in the draft every year.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1277943]Darrisaw or JOK in the first round is my vote. If Jones somehow fell into the bottom of the first round (don’t think this will happen realistically) [B]how would you feel about trading back up into the 1st round to get him.[/B] Our 2nd and a late round pick may do it. Is that considered a value pick? Maybe not, but it’s definitely intriguing. Just like QBs are over drafted every year, there are always reached and players they fall unexpectedly in the draft every year.[/quote]


Honestly? If Mac Jones was around at 19 in the first round, I would almost prefer trading back so the Saints or somebody could draft him at 19 ... which I think would happen. I mean, I just don't see him falling to the second round at all.

Get a later first, and another second ...

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=Pervis_Griffith;1277953]Honestly? If Mac Jones was around at 19 in the first round, I would almost prefer trading back so the Saints or somebody could draft him at 19 ... which I think would happen. I mean, I just don't see him falling to the second round at all.

Get a later first, and another second ...[/quote]

With that plan you have to get someone in FA though. I agree there zero chance he falls to the second, and unlikely he falls even to 19, or lower in the 1st, but I just thought it was an interesting scenario. Something crazy like that always happens every year during the draft.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1277915]I agree, LB is harder to find than WR.[/quote]

If you are talking what is economical, MLBs can be had cheap in FA, while outside that can pass cover, even if not edge rushers, cost a bit more. This FA loaded with WRs, but you pay through teeth for them.

It is interesting to ask what FA does. We swung for fences for huge name WR last year FA, but most other signings were judicious and budget friendly. You could make a credible argument that the case history shows we'll sign a big name stud WR, and also that with so many WRs we might find a second tier FA that is still very good and try and get him for 30% or 40% of price of one of the huge names.

I don't love Darrishaw at OT. He seems more a plodding run blocker than a super athletic pass rusher. I think you aim for latter, as with Williams. You can teach a pass blocker to run block, but vice versa can be much more challenging. The question becomes does staff think S. Charles is still a truly viable franchise LT? If I'm not going QB with 1st round pick, I'm still looking to plug one of the other high-leverage positions, LT,WR,CB. I would not be surprised to see us go corner though. I think FS is also an immense long-term need. If there is a FS with true CB skills and 4.4 speed, sitting at #19, that fills an IMMENSE long term need, and you can resign FSs for less than WR or CBs cost.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

I'd almost suggest if Mac Jones was there at #19 then we trade back for more picks and go after someone like Mond in the 4th or maybe even 3rd round. To me the likes of Jones and Trask don't fit the mould of what we need/the NFL wants and we risk reaching if we take Jones at #19 or even think of trading up.

I'd take BPA and risk waiting another year to find our rookie QB, if we don't find a diamond lower down. Let the other teams scramble around with trades etc. to get 'their guy', while we build a team for a 3-4 year run, not all or nothing now. They'll use up picks on busts more like as not, while we get a draft full of prospects hopefully.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1277969]I'd almost suggest if Mac Jones was there at #19 then we trade back for more picks and go after someone like Mond in the 4th or maybe even 3rd round. To me the likes of Jones and Trask don't fit the mould of what we need/the NFL wants and we risk reaching if we take Jones at #19 or even think of trading up.

I'd take BPA and risk waiting another year to find our rookie QB, if we don't find a diamond lower down. Let the other teams scramble around with trades etc. to get 'their guy', while we build a team for a 3-4 year run, not all or nothing now. They'll use up picks on busts more like as not, while we get a draft full of prospects hopefully.[/quote]

It's not likely that scenario will play out. If a team drafting after WFT really wants Mac Jones (Chicago, Pittsburgh, New Orleans), they will probably move up to get him before WFT has a chance to draft him. If Jones is there at #18, that is when the trade will occur - with Miami.

I am a fan of drafting a guy like Mond or Newman in round 4 or 5 though, if they like one of those guys.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1277955]With that plan you have to get someone in FA though. I agree there zero chance he falls to the second, and unlikely he falls even to 19, or lower in the 1st, but I just thought it was an interesting scenario. Something crazy like that always happens every year during the draft.[/quote]


Yeah .. that's true. I shoulda stipulated that. I guess I assume that will happen.


I like Jones, and hell, he could become a bad ass. And if we have a chance at him, and pass, and he blows up, well ... that'll suck.

But I think adding a second round pick would allow us to do something like OT first round, S second round, LB second round ... with two 3rd round picks to grab WR, and BPA ..... setting us up nicely for the future.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[url]https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/mac-jones-2021-nfl-draft-alabama-journey-senior-bowl[/url]

I like this kid

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1277983][url]https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/mac-jones-2021-nfl-draft-alabama-journey-senior-bowl[/url]

I like this kid[/quote]


His accuracy numbers are astounding. He could easily become a great one.

Or .... maybe not ...


It's def tricky!

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1277983][url]https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/mac-jones-2021-nfl-draft-alabama-journey-senior-bowl[/url]

I like this kid[/quote]

If he is there at 19 I''d take him. I might even trade up to get him. a pick and a player - it would really depend on how far we would have to trade up....

Another Option a need position and Trask in the 2nd round

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1277983][url]https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/mac-jones-2021-nfl-draft-alabama-journey-senior-bowl[/url]

I like this kid[/quote]


Come to think of it, you were pimping Tua hard last year too ....

Is it ALL Bama QB's? Or just those two? :D

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=Pervis_Griffith;1278019]Come to think of it, you were pimping Tua hard last year too ....

Is it ALL Bama QB's? Or just those two? :D[/quote]

lmao U git me... I'm really Nick Saban

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1277969]I'd almost suggest if Mac Jones was there at #19 then we trade back for more picks and go after someone like Mond in the 4th or maybe even 3rd round. To me the likes of Jones and Trask don't fit the mould of what we need/the NFL wants and we risk reaching if we take Jones at #19 or even think of trading up.

I'd take BPA and risk waiting another year to find our rookie QB, if we don't find a diamond lower down. Let the other teams scramble around with trades etc. to get 'their guy', while we build a team for a 3-4 year run, not all or nothing now. They'll use up picks on busts more like as not, while we get a draft full of prospects hopefully.[/quote]

You could argue that Jones needs more arm strength to be a legit franchise QB, not a small shortcoming, but some scouts argue his arm is strong enough. He checks all the other boxes. The "mould" of running QBs isn't what wins long term. Following the herd isn't usually wise.

I agree with long-term view, but we should be looking for a pocket passer, not a running QB. I think a fair rating of Jones is late 1st to perhaps late 2nd, so the question then becomes do you reach a bit for a potential franchise QB? Depends what the scouts say in their assessment. I don't think it matters. I think Jones is gone, long gone, by #19. I think pro scouts understand pocket passers are what win long term, for at least a half dozen teams at least, and one of them will pounce on Jones, especially outside the top-10 if he's still there. I think Jones is at minimum the 2nd best prospect in this QB class. He learns fast and knows pro-style offenses. He can come in right away and lead. He reminds me Peyton Manning, Brees, Brady, Eli Manning, etc., in his approach, style, and intangible.

People assuming you need a RB at QB are wrong, period. The QBs that enjoy long-term success in NFL are all pocket passers. I am not drafting any QB in the 1st round if they haven't succeeded in a pro-style system reading Ds. You do that, the bust rate decreases MASSIVELY. Again, exhibits A and B, RGIII and Haskins.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1277975]It's not likely that scenario will play out. If a team drafting after WFT really wants Mac Jones (Chicago, Pittsburgh, New Orleans), they will probably move up to get him before WFT has a chance to draft him. If Jones is there at #18, that is when the trade will occur - with Miami.

I am a fan of drafting a guy like Mond or Newman in round 4 or 5 though, if they like one of those guys.[/quote]

Not so sure on Miami. I don't think Jones makes it past Patriots. Belicheat takes him in a heartbeat there, methinks.

From 10-18 picks, number of teams with QB solved, and also number of teams with starting QBs that could look to improve. How much do Vikes believe in Cousins? Niners in never-healthy Garrop? You really want him, other teams I mean, you need to trade up over other teams who also want him, so teams make sure they are moving up high enough to actually get him. I think there could be a lot of action to trade into 14 before Pats if Jones on board. Anywhere between 10 and 14. Also, keep in mind, mock draft Homers also often rank QBs different than pro scouts. Jones could easily be gone top-10.

I would favor taking him at #19 if there, but seriously doubt he will be. I think if you bring Jones in and give him massive reps in camp, he is immediately better year one than Smith or Allen, even a healthy Smith. Hein the X factor. Then ideally take Ramsey later in draft, and have Jones, Ramsey, Hein. THat'll never happen because Jones won't be there at 19 and RR will want a safety valve, a proven veteran with a known floor.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=Pervis_Griffith;1277800]Yeah I agree. Depending on how we address QB before the draft, I could easily see us pulling the trigger on Jones if he is still there in the first round.

I go back and forth on Jones. I could see him being great (he feels like a Drew Brees -- not off the charts in physical ability, but smart as hell, and runs the system to perfection). And I could see him being a big teaset (a la Kirk Cousins - lotsa stats, but never breaking through when it counts)

Getting him in the second round? I think he's a solid pick.

But in the first? Who knows ...[/quote]

The real question is whether he is there at #19 in the first round. LOL.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1277757]If we draft WR would you go for a speed or size? Can't help thinking that Gandy-Golden and Cam Sims offer the size option (and I like what Sims showed later last season), so we should go for another blazer opposite McLaurin. We really need to be able to stretch the field more consistently to help the run game if nothing else.

I'd agree with waiting until rd2+ to pick a WR unless the guy is BPA when we pick at #19. We don't have a big sample set but we haven't had success with 1st round WR's since Art Monk![/quote]

You go for the guy that can run routes and catch and loves the game and will work to get better. WRs usually take a bit for the lights to come on.

Two blazers with no size, I'm not sure. I think you need a true #1WR, speed AND size. Problem with our big guys is they are slow or don't consistently run good routes and make catches. Speed is also a relative term, lot of big guys are long striders but not quick, can't get open on short routes consistently especially against tall press corners.

LT and WR we have guys that could in theory become quality starters, but do you stand pat and gamble on potential? Probably not.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=Scalper;1278033][B]Not so sure on Miami. [/B]I don't think Jones makes it past Patriots. Belicheat takes him in a heartbeat there, methinks.

From 10-18 picks, number of teams with QB solved, and also number of teams with starting QBs that could look to improve. How much do Vikes believe in Cousins? Niners in never-healthy Garrop? You really want him, other teams I mean, you need to trade up over other teams who also want him, so teams make sure they are moving up high enough to actually get him. I think there could be a lot of action to trade into 14 before Pats if Jones on board. Anywhere between 10 and 14. Also, keep in mind, mock draft Homers also often rank QBs different than pro scouts. Jones could easily be gone top-10.

I would favor taking him at #19 if there, but seriously doubt he will be. I think if you bring Jones in and give him massive reps in camp, he is immediately better year one than Smith or Allen, even a healthy Smith. Hein the X factor. Then ideally take Ramsey later in draft, and have Jones, Ramsey, Hein. THat'll never happen because Jones won't be there at 19 and RR will want a safety valve, a proven veteran with a known floor.[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't say Jones wouldn't get taken before that. I'm just saying if he's still there at #18, that's a likely spot for a team in the 20s to move up to pick him.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

I'm not suggesting we need a running QB, but we need a mobile one. Unless we can rebuild the OL in one season (and being in mind Scherff might only be here 1 more year max), we need a guy who can extend passing plays, not just takes off running every time. A Mahomes/Wilson type, not Jackson.

OTOH if RR and Turner think they can scheme up protection improvements in the meantime, and ANYONE will be be more mobile than Smith (hell, a pot plant would be more mobile), then maybe Jones is a good answer if he can move around a bit. I'm just conscious of putting a static rookie back there and breaking him a la Burrow.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

Kiper has Mac Jones going #8 in fact he has all 5 going top 10..

I do not see that happening.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1278049]Kiper has Mac Jones going #8 in fact he has all 5 going top 10..



I do not see that happening.[/QUOTE]



No fucking way. Lol. He is getting too cute. Probably because he is always wrong. I have a gut feeling Jones is going to be there at 19 and we are going to pick him. Then I will hold my breath for a couple years to see if we finally got our guy....again.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1278049]Kiper has Mac Jones going #8 in fact he has all 5 going top 10..

I do not see that happening.[/quote]

That is so crazy...and possible.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1278040]I'm not suggesting we need a running QB, but we need a mobile one. Unless we can rebuild the OL in one season (and being in mind Scherff might only be here 1 more year max), we need a guy who can extend passing plays, not just takes off running every time. A Mahomes/Wilson type, not Jackson.

OTOH if RR and Turner think they can scheme up protection improvements in the meantime, and ANYONE will be be more mobile than Smith (hell, a pot plant would be more mobile), then maybe Jones is a good answer if he can move around a bit. I'm just conscious of putting a static rookie back there and breaking him a la Burrow.[/quote]

Your “pot plant” comment is out of bounds. This individual gave up his right leg playing for your team, and played heroically when pressed into emergency because we literally had no one else to play.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

Why is that out of bounds? He's just drawing a fairly accurate analogy.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[QUOTE=SCRedskinsFan;1278052]Your “pot plant” comment is out of bounds. This individual gave up his right leg playing for your team, and played heroically when pressed into emergency because we literally had no one else to play.[/QUOTE]



Do you only come on here to police people’s posts or do you ever actually have anything to say?

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1278054]Do you only come on here to police people’s posts or do you ever actually have anything to say?[/quote]

Feel free to disagree with me regarding the potted plant comment. I thought it was an insult to a guy who literally gave his right leg to the franchise. As to the “policing” nonsense, to each their own.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

Try reading some other posts. I applauded AS for coming back and competing, let alone starting.

But he isn't even remotely mobile, especially compared to how he could move pre-injury. Its just a fact, whether he admits it or not, he can't move in the pocket and is therefore a liability. I'd put money on him being gone 1st June.

If I wanted to be insulting I'd have compared him to a boulder. At least a pot plant shows motion in a draft.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1278040]I'm not suggesting we need a running QB, but we need a mobile one. Unless we can rebuild the OL in one season (and being in mind Scherff might only be here 1 more year max), we need a guy who can extend passing plays, not just takes off running every time. A Mahomes/Wilson type, not Jackson.

OTOH if RR and Turner think they can scheme up protection improvements in the meantime, and ANYONE will be be more mobile than Smith (hell, a pot plant would be more mobile), then maybe Jones is a good answer if he can move around a bit. I'm just conscious of putting a static rookie back there and breaking him a la Burrow.[/quote]

Running and mobile are synonyms. Your QB spends much time outside the pocket, he gets creamed eventually, period. You need a pocket QB with pocket presence, who has the gift of sensing pressure and eluding it without taking off running, stepping up to get the pass off or throw it away. You don't draft the wrong sort of QB long term because of short term blocking problems. Everyone is enamoured of mobile running QBs, but year in year out the guys winning it and making deep playoff runs are pocket passers.

Wilson only won SB with one of most stacked Ds of all time. Mahomes has been banged up since he started running more. I think he was WAY more injured in SB than he let on. No excuses, Bucs won, but Mahomes mechanics seemed off all game.

Your focus in drafting a QB should be his accuracy, arm strength, and ability to generally throw the ball, not his ability to play RB, period. You can't have your QB taking hits from 250 LBs and 275-300 LB DL. The QB that doesn't get hurt is the one that can go through his progressions fast and has pocket presence, and that does NOT mean the ability to run real fast outside the pocket. RBs get hurt more than most any other position, why would you use your QB, the hardest position in all of sports to fill, as one? Most running QBs have never demonstrated an ability to go through progressions and elude the rush WITHIN the pocket, which is one reason bust rates are sky-high in recent years. You draft a guy who does things in college that don't equate with pro success and then express amazement when your QB can't ever really read a D, go through progressions fast, and get the ball out fast. Jones has a PROVEN ability to do the things that great NFL pocket passers do, but I still don't love his arm strength. Jones is a no brainer versus most of the other prospects everyone rates higher.

Burrow had nothing approaching elite athleticism. He was not worthy of the #1 pick. That being said, sucks anyone gets injured that bad. You need an OC who runs a system that maximizes talent rather than forcing the system he loves. In the final analysis, you have to draft a QB and protect him, but you can't let lack of protection warp the way you evaluate long term prospects of success of a QB. EVERY QB who has won more than one SB in salary cap era is a pocket passer. There is not one exception. Running QBs are a fad, nothing more.

If you refuse to draft a QB who has not flourished for at least two years in a pro style system, and demand that such a QB have natural accuracy, natural pocket presence, and the intelligence to read Ds coming out of school (not learning it later as a projection) bust rates plummet. A HUGE percentage of the highly drafted QB busts are running QBs or system college QBs with NO experience in reading Ds or pro Os. Just because everyone espouses something doesn't make it sensible, and the opposite is usually true. Don't believe the hype about running QBs. One other problem with them is much shorter shelf life. They lose a step and then run out of the pocket, as they age, they get KILLED.

Again, it won't matter. Jones will be gone by the time we pick methinks. Long gone.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=SCRedskinsFan;1278052]Your “pot plant” comment is out of bounds. This individual gave up his right leg playing for your team, and played heroically when pressed into emergency because we literally had no one else to play.[/quote]

He is paid $20M+ a year for a profession he knowingly chose, including the risks. I would never want anyone to lose a leg playing football, but it is a dangerous game and no one put a gun to Smith's head and forced him to play. He is a shell of his former self in terms of playing skills. No one will ever dispute Smith's character, he is a stellar human being, but he has always been a mediocre QB at best. Assessing extremely high-paid players based on their physical gifts and limitations is not out of bounds, it comes with the territory. Enough of the PC police. Try reading the first amendment. Enough of the censorship in this country. The people I want to have the right to speak the most are those whose views I find the most offensive, because without that freedom you have tyranny. Who made you the omniscient arbitrator of what is in and out of bounds? Move to Russia or China, Comrade.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=Scalper;1278080]Running and mobile are synonyms. Your QB spends much time outside the pocket, he gets creamed eventually, period. You need a pocket QB with pocket presence, who has the gift of sensing pressure and eluding it without taking off running, stepping up to get the pass off or throw it away. You don't draft the wrong sort of QB long term because of short term blocking problems. Everyone is enamoured of mobile running QBs, but year in year out the guys winning it and making deep playoff runs are pocket passers.

Wilson only won SB with one of most stacked Ds of all time. Mahomes has been banged up since he started running more. I think he was WAY more injured in SB than he let on. No excuses, Bucs won, but Mahomes mechanics seemed off all game.

Your focus in drafting a QB should be his accuracy, arm strength, and ability to generally throw the ball, not his ability to play RB, period. You can't have your QB taking hits from 250 LBs and 275-300 LB DL. The QB that doesn't get hurt is the one that can go through his progressions fast and has pocket presence, and that does NOT mean the ability to run real fast outside the pocket. RBs get hurt more than most any other position, why would you use your QB, the hardest position in all of sports to fill, as one? Most running QBs have never demonstrated an ability to go through progressions and elude the rush WITHIN the pocket, which is one reason bust rates are sky-high in recent years. You draft a guy who does things in college that don't equate with pro success and then express amazement when your QB can't ever really read a D, go through progressions fast, and get the ball out fast. Jones has a PROVEN ability to do the things that great NFL pocket passers do, but I still don't love his arm strength. Jones is a no brainer versus most of the other prospects everyone rates higher.

Burrow had nothing approaching elite athleticism. He was not worthy of the #1 pick. That being said, sucks anyone gets injured that bad. You need an OC who runs a system that maximizes talent rather than forcing the system he loves. In the final analysis, you have to draft a QB and protect him, but you can't let lack of protection warp the way you evaluate long term prospects of success of a QB. EVERY QB who has won more than one SB in salary cap era is a pocket passer. There is not one exception. Running QBs are a fad, nothing more.

If you refuse to draft a QB who has not flourished for at least two years in a pro style system, and demand that such a QB have natural accuracy, natural pocket presence, and the intelligence to read Ds coming out of school (not learning it later as a projection) bust rates plummet. A HUGE percentage of the highly drafted QB busts are running QBs or system college QBs with NO experience in reading Ds or pro Os. Just because everyone espouses something doesn't make it sensible, and the opposite is usually true. Don't believe the hype about running QBs. One other problem with them is much shorter shelf life. They lose a step and then run out of the pocket, as they age, they get KILLED.

Again, it won't matter. Jones will be gone by the time we pick methinks. Long gone.[/quote]

There is such a huge fallacy here with regards to "running quarterbacks"
QBs get injured on designed runs 1 out of every 236 plays. A QB that scrambles gets injured the same rate as a QB that gets sacked once out of every 92 plays. The worst is the knockdown when a QB is taken down while planting and throwing once every 67 plays. That was in 2018. John Varros compiled the data for Sports Info Solutions in 2018 and in 2019 compiled this data: [url]https://twitter.com/VerrosJohn/status/1262483721602699271[/url]

Furthermore there are degrees of mobility. Brady looks like a rushing QB when compared to Manning. One is far more comfortable with moving the pocket both had significant injuries during their career. Everybody wants a pro ready QB but we shouldn't discount one that can move too.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=Scalper;1278083]He is paid $20M+ a year for a profession he knowingly chose, including the risks. I would never want anyone to lose a leg playing football, but it is a dangerous game and no one put a gun to Smith's head and forced him to play. He is a shell of his former self in terms of playing skills. No one will ever dispute Smith's character, he is a stellar human being, but he has always been a mediocre QB at best. Assessing extremely high-paid players based on their physical gifts and limitations is not out of bounds, it comes with the territory. Enough of the PC police. Try reading the first amendment. Enough of the censorship in this country. The people I want to have the right to speak the most are those whose views I find the most offensive, because without that freedom you have tyranny. Who made you the omniscient arbitrator of what is in and out of bounds? Move to Russia or China, Comrade.[/quote]

OK, enough of this crap. My opinion is that the “potted plant” comment was offensive. Actually I said “out of bounds”. I never said or implied that it was somehow illegal or against any rules, so don’t give me your first amendment lecture. Expressing an opinion is what these boards are all about, and in your short tenure here you have certainly gotten an ample opportunity to express yours.

And speaking of offensive, the last line of your post speaks for itself.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

All this extracurricular activity because of a pot plant....Everyone always says alcohol is what starts fights but now I gotta wonder. [emoji848]

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[QUOTE=SCRedskinsFan;1278072]Feel free to disagree with me regarding the potted plant comment. I thought it was an insult to a guy who literally gave his right leg to the franchise. As to the “policing” nonsense, to each their own.[/QUOTE]



Honestly man. Did you think Smith was mobile last year? At all? His last couple games were probably as immobile as a quarterback I have ever seen. Does he have courage to go out there? Uh huh. Did anyone say he didn’t? Nope. I just for the life of me do not see what you thought was out of bounds. I think Alex would be the first to admit he wasn’t able to move in the pocket. Was it because of a marijuana reference or just because he said he couldn’t move? Thats a serious question.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

People are so easily offended these days, it is absolutely amazing. We have to be becoming the softest society on the planet.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1278110]Honestly man. Did you think Smith was mobile last year? At all? His last couple games were probably as immobile as a quarterback I have ever seen. Does he have courage to go out there? Uh huh. Did anyone say he didn’t? Nope. I just for the life of me do not see what you thought was out of bounds. I think Alex would be the first to admit he wasn’t able to move in the pocket. Was it because of a marijuana reference or just because he said he couldn’t move? Thats a serious question.[/quote]

It wasn't a reference to a pot plant (though maybe...), I meant potted plant. That's what we call them over here. :)

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1277789]
19: R1 P19 [B]OT Christian Darrisaw[/B] - Virginia Tech
51: R2 P19 QB Mac Jones - Alabama
74: R3 P10 WR Amon-Ra St. Brown - USC
82: R3 P18 S Paris Ford - Pittsburgh
124: R4 P19 CB Robert Rochell - Central Arkansas
164: R5 P19 LB Charles Snowden - UVA
243: R7 P17 TE Quintin Morris - Bowling Green
245: R7 P19 G Brenden Jaimes - Nebraska[/quote]

I do like this pick at #19, assuming they address the QB position and add a #2 WR prior to the draft.

LT - Christian Darrisaw
LG - Saahdiq Charles
C - Chase Roullier
RG - Brandon Scherff
RT - Morgan Moses

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1278110]Honestly man. Did you think Smith was mobile last year? At all? His last couple games were probably as immobile as a quarterback I have ever seen. Does he have courage to go out there? Uh huh. Did anyone say he didn’t? Nope. I just for the life of me do not see what you thought was out of bounds. I think Alex would be the first to admit he wasn’t able to move in the pocket. Was it because of a marijuana reference or just because he said he couldn’t move? Thats a serious question.[/quote]

He wasn't mobile five years ago in his prime.
He stated the truth without directly denigrating anyone. No problem with that.
But the truth is that no team can trust his durability moving forward, especially not in a starting role.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=Scalper;1278131]He wasn't mobile five years ago in his prime.
He stated the truth without directly denigrating anyone. No problem with that.
But the truth is that no team can trust his durability moving forward, especially not in a starting role.[/quote]

bingo...that is truth

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1278107]There is such a huge fallacy here with regards to "running quarterbacks"
QBs get injured on designed runs 1 out of every 236 plays. A QB that scrambles gets injured the same rate as a QB that gets sacked once out of every 92 plays. The worst is the knockdown when a QB is taken down while planting and throwing once every 67 plays. That was in 2018. John Varros compiled the data for Sports Info Solutions in 2018 and in 2019 compiled this data: [url]https://twitter.com/VerrosJohn/status/1262483721602699271[/url]

Furthermore there are degrees of mobility. Brady looks like a rushing QB when compared to Manning. One is far more comfortable with moving the pocket both had significant injuries during their career. Everybody wants a pro ready QB but we shouldn't discount one that can move too.[/quote]

I don't use Twitter, just on principle, I don't abet totalitarianism, so can't see that. It is not a fallacy. Show me one running QB who has won multiple SBs in salary cap era? There are many pocket passers with no pocket presence who take tons of bad hits, so the aggregate can be distortive, especially without quantification of specific injury. A sprained pinky is not the same as a blown ACL. The argument that running plays are safer for a QB is ridiculous. Extrapolating your argument, and I would agree getting hit while planted is the worst, it would be safer to just not have the QB ever throw and use him as a RB. This is clearly not the case.

I don't want a franchise QB getting paid $40M a year who is irreplaceable running bootlegs or playing RB and giving LBs and DL free shots at him. It only takes one outlier play to lose your franchise QB. It is needless risk.

Moreover, injury is only part of the picture. The QB that stays in the pocket and finds the open receiver usually moves the offense better long term than the QB that runs. We see time and time again running QBs stunted in development because they use their legs as a crutch and run rather than learn to optimize D reading. It takes 100K+ reps to get great at reading Ds so you can go through 3-5 progressions in under 3 secs.

This isn't brain surgery. Who are the best QBs in the NFL over last 20 years? The QBs that led their teams on deep playoff runs repeatedly. Brady, Rodgers, both Mannings, Brees, etc. Pocket passers. Moreover, longevity is key. You want to draft a franchise QB and have them play 15+ years. Show me a running QB still crushing it in their 30s? Is there an age breakdown on that injury data? Aging running QBs lose a step and get KILLED. I want a QB that from day one is focused on only one thing: becoming a dominant pocket passer. QB who runs through his progressions in 3 secs or less and throws the ball away if nothing there.

And you need a great LT, one who is best as pass blocking rather than run blocking. Williams. LOL. Thanks again Bruce.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1278120]I do like this pick at #19, assuming they address the QB position and add a #2 WR prior to the draft.

LT - Christian Darrisaw
LG - Saahdiq Charles
C - Chase Roullier
RG - Brandon Scherff
RT - Morgan Moses[/quote]

I don't know the answer to this, but I wonder what RR and others think of Charles starting at LT? Worst case scenario, you have really solid depth at T if you take a LT in 1st 2 rounds, and could always move Charles to RT in time. Darrisaw, I'm no pro scout, but I don't love his foot speed. Seems very inconsistent in technique and often caught in bad leverage situations. Smells like a guy that might get stuck at G or RT rather than being cornerstone LT.
All I can say is, I hope we do something at LT with one of our first 4 picks and shore the position up, and it wouldn't break my heart to get another RT as well. I think Moses looks MUCH more mortal without Scherff to his left.

However, I could see FO thinking Charles will progress, and going WR, CB, and LB with many early picks, and also perhaps a true burner roving FS. I would not be surprised at all if we didn't draft any OL early. Obviously depends how board falls.

Re: The Too Soon 2021 NFL Draft Thread
 

[quote=Scalper;1278133]I don't use Twitter, just on principle, I don't abet totalitarianism, so can't see that. It is not a fallacy. Show me one running QB who has won multiple SBs in salary cap era? There are many pocket passers with no pocket presence who take tons of bad hits, so the aggregate can be distortive, especially without quantification of specific injury. A sprained pinky is not the same as a blown ACL. The argument that running plays are safer for a QB is ridiculous. Extrapolating your argument, and I would agree getting hit while planted is the worst, it would be safer to just not have the QB ever throw and use him as a RB. This is clearly not the case.

I don't want a franchise QB getting paid $40M a year who is irreplaceable running bootlegs or playing RB and giving LBs and DL free shots at him. It only takes one outlier play to lose your franchise QB. It is needless risk.

Moreover, injury is only part of the picture. The QB that stays in the pocket and finds the open receiver usually moves the offense better long term than the QB that runs. We see time and time again running QBs stunted in development because they use their legs as a crutch and run rather than learn to optimize D reading. It takes 100K+ reps to get great at reading Ds so you can go through 3-5 progressions in under 3 secs.

This isn't brain surgery. Who are the best QBs in the NFL over last 20 years? The QBs that led their teams on deep playoff runs repeatedly. Brady, Rodgers, both Mannings, Brees, etc. Pocket passers. Moreover, longevity is key. You want to draft a franchise QB and have them play 15+ years. Show me a running QB still crushing it in their 30s? Is there an age breakdown on that injury data? Aging running QBs lose a step and get KILLED. I want a QB that from day one is focused on only one thing: becoming a dominant pocket passer. QB who runs through his progressions in 3 secs or less and throws the ball away if nothing there.

And you need a great LT, one who is best as pass blocking rather than run blocking. Williams. LOL. Thanks again Bruce.[/quote]

Give me your data and we can have a discussion about it. But once again I love how you lump everyone in as either a pocket passer or a running qb with out recognizing a continuum. How can you seriously lump in Rodgers and Manning in the same category? It is absurd.