Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;670313]I think you are riight. I am a little suprised that we have heard nothing about Levi Jones. I think he was ok, as a LT. Maybe, he would be better after a full year of preperation.[/quote]

Levi isn't taking us to the bowl but I don't see how him being on the roster hurts us. We need two experienced tackles going into the season whether we draft a tackle or two or not.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;670313]I think you are riight. I am a little suprised that we have heard nothing about Levi Jones. I think he was ok, as a LT. Maybe, he would be better after a full year of preperation.[/quote]

Some games he was a freaking revolving door though. I'd expect them to give him a lil more help if that starts happening though.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;670317]Nice post. I think the part in bold is key. Even at 340 I remember folks saying Mike had surprising agility, and that's after how many years outside the game? As a huge, agile guard he could be very important in the zone-blocking scheme, though I don't enough acumen to know how he'll make the transition otherwise.

The part about Mike playing next to a RT superior to Heyer is also important. Personally I'm surprised we even kept Heyer. In space is just awful and watching him target, close and then block someone (which is key in zone-blocking) is just painful.[/quote]

I forget which game it was, hell it was probably more than one game, but Heyer couldn't even get the snap count right. I thought it was the Ballcoach era all over again.

My hope for Heyer is that he ends up our 4th tackle. If Big Mike and Stephon are both on our bench to start the year, I think we are in decent shape.

Btw...I am all for renting Mawae. We need at least one premium lineman playing for us week one. I think he has intangibles too.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;670313]I think you are riight. I am a little suprised that we have heard nothing about Levi Jones. I think he was ok, as a LT. Maybe, he would be better after a full year of preperation.[/quote]

I never thought Levi Jones was playing well last year.
And the stats from pro football prospectus list him as the second worst OT in the league last year.

Imo, OT and specifically Levi Jones were the biggests weak spot on the team.

I don't know why Jones gets a pass from some people yet Heyer gets bashed although he played most of the season injured and still finished the season with better stats then Jones.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;670332]I forget which game it was, hell it was probably more than one game, but Heyer couldn't even get the snap count right. I thought it was the Ballcoach era all over again.

My hope for Heyer is that he ends up our 4th tackle. If Big Mike and Stephon are both on our bench to start the year, I think we are in decent shape.

Btw...I am all for renting Mawae. We need at least one premium lineman playing for us week one. I think he has intangibles too.[/quote]

Rabach's smallish size is already a bit of a liability facing the nasty d-lines in the NFC East...putting him at guard is downright scary so I can't imagine we paid him to do anything but play center. That said Mawae would have been an enormous upgrade so I'm kind of surprised we "rushed" to lock up Rabach.

I think Shanny has to be very focused on the oline (obviously) beyond just acquiring younger, legitimate players. In Denver he didn't face conference rivals w/ d-lines like we see so he could get away w/ smallish, quicker linemen for the zone-blocking. Smallish guys, no matter how talented, will probably get destroyed facing our rivals 6 games each year. I think he needs the best of the best type of trench troops, extremely agile large guys to make his scheme work now. That cries out youth like I don't know what. This is why I was worried about Clifton coming here. We need serious talent in this group. Btw I think Shanny/Allen know this and probably don't expect to sign our LT/RT starters in FA. Just my hunch...

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;670338]Rabach's smallish size is already a bit of a liability facing the nasty d-lines in the NFC East...putting him at guard is downright scary so I can't imagine we paid him to do anything but play center. That said Mawae would have been an enormous upgrade so I'm kind of surprised we "rushed" to lock up Rabach.

I think Shanny has to be very focused on the oline (obviously) beyond just acquiring younger, legitimate players. In Denver he didn't face conference rivals w/ d-lines like we see so he could get away w/ smallish, quicker linemen for the zone-blocking. Smallish guys, no matter how talented, will probably get destroyed facing our rivals 6 games each year. I think he needs the best of the best type of trench troops, extremely agile large guys to make his scheme work now. That cries out youth like I don't know what. This is why I was worried about Clifton coming here. We need serious talent in this group. Btw I think Shanny/Allen know this and probably don't expect to sign our LT/RT starters in FA. Just my hunch...[/quote]

I was hopefull for Clifton because as far as I can tell we only have two starting quality lineman at the moment. I am not panicked but I am nervous...

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=30gut;670334]I never thought Levi Jones was playing well last year.
And the stats from pro football prospectus list him as the second worst OT in the league last year.

Imo, OT and specifically Levi Jones were the biggests weak spot on the team.

I don't know why Jones gets a pass from some people yet Heyer gets bashed although he played most of the season injured and still finished the season with better stats then Jones.[/quote]

That's what I was thinking too.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;670338]Rabach's smallish size is already a bit of a liability facing the nasty d-lines in the NFC East...putting him at guard is downright scary so I can't imagine we paid him to do anything but play center. That said Mawae would have been an enormous upgrade so I'm kind of surprised we "rushed" to lock up Rabach.

I think Shanny has to be very focused on the oline (obviously) beyond just acquiring younger, legitimate players. In Denver he didn't face conference rivals w/ d-lines like we see so he could get away w/ smallish, quicker linemen for the zone-blocking. Smallish guys, no matter how talented, will probably get destroyed facing our rivals 6 games each year. I think he needs the best of the best type of trench troops, extremely agile large guys to make his scheme work now. That cries out youth like I don't know what. This is why I was worried about Clifton coming here. We need serious talent in this group. Btw I think Shanny/Allen know this and probably don't expect to sign our LT/RT starters in FA. Just my hunch...[/quote]

I think Denver had a winning record against the NFC East....and big guys tire more easily when they're a mile high above sea level(I think anyway)

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

I'm kinda glad we didn't pick up Clifton, I think we need to get our LT of the future in the draft, and nothing would make me happier than having Okung be that LT of the future. I do hope we pick up Pashos, he'd be a huge upgrade over Heyer at RT.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Ruhskins;670349]I'm kinda glad we didn't pick up Clifton, I think we need to get our LT of the future in the draft, and nothing would make me happier than having Okung be that LT of the future. I do hope we pick up Pashos, he'd be a huge upgrade over Heyer at RT.[/quote]

Yeah, we need a guy that we're fairly confident will hold up for us.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Ruhskins;670349]I'm kinda glad we didn't pick up Clifton, I think we need to get our LT of the future in the draft, and nothing would make me happier than having Okung be that LT of the future. I do hope we pick up Pashos, he'd be a huge upgrade over Heyer at RT.[/quote]

Agreed.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;670340]I was hopefull for Clifton because as far as I can tell we only have two starting quality lineman at the moment. I am not panicked but I am nervous...[/quote]

My sentiments exactly...

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

If we can get a few rookies or younger folks growing and learning together it'll be like a real group of lineman. Like the Hogs or any succesful group that grows, matures and progresses together. Shanahan has a much longer leash than Zorn had. He has time to think about the future. Zorn had no chance to win with an old team that wasn't ever really his in any way. Okung and more Oline.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Drafting Okung would give us an OLine of LT Okung, LG Dockery, C Rabach, RG Williams and RT Levi Jones. Heyer, and Reinhart as backups. I'd like to bring back Jansen (though I think I'm the only one) and another serviceable FA backup (Hank Fraley or David Bass). This would allow us to draft another lineman or two in rounds 4-7.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Ruhskins;670349]I'm kinda glad we didn't pick up Clifton, I think we need to get our LT of the future in the draft, and nothing would make me happier than having Okung be that LT of the future. I do hope we pick up Pashos, he'd be a huge upgrade over Heyer at RT.[/quote]

I'm glad we didn't get Clifton, and for that matter I'd be ok if no free agents are signed other than rookie undrafted ones (I do hope Pierce comes back but it isn't likely). I know that might not be practical, but at the same time, this looks like at least a moderate rebuilding effort and they've got to get young bodies in to compete.

Edwin Williams may pan out as a diamond in the rough, but the fact that Rabach was re-signed could mean they have confidence in him to develop, or it could mean that they'll just rely on CR for a year or 2 till they can draft a center. E. Williams was undrafted, they'll have to find more guys like that this year.