Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=htownskinfan;683243]I cant decide if I like this trade or not.This smells of the Brunell signing.Does Mcnabb have to pass a physical? Just cant believe philly would trade Mcnabb to us unless they know something we dont.If Mcnabb is 100 percent healthy then its a good trade for both teams,I dont think we gave up to much for him[/quote]

Mark Brunell was already well into his decline when we traded for him. McNabb hasn't shown he's in decline yet, hopefully it's not this year.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;683235]How do we know the Ravens and Dolphins didn't also talk to the Eagles? I would guess that, based on how these things usually go, every team except maybe the Saints, Falcons, Colts, and Pats had some conversation with the Eagles. All teams talk all the time[/quote]I think if someone like the Ravens or Dolphins started talking picks or players for McNabb, Schefter and or Glazer would have had the scoop almost instantly.

Kicking the tires is fine, and something I expected most teams to do. I think we went a little overboard in terms of checking all of our bases.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/35962-mcnabb-a-redskin-59.html#post683036[/url]

More like some idiot that you know and share a couple of friends with.

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/35962-mcnabb-a-redskin-59.html#post683044[/url]

Much appreciated C-Rule!

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=Audi;683247]Mark Brunell was already well into his decline when we traded for him. McNabb hasn't shown he's in decline yet, hopefully it's not this year.[/quote]Look no further than the injury record for disproof of your statement.

All I'm saying is that the decline signs are readily available for anyone who's interested in looking at them. QB rating kind of obscures it a bit, but most other stats suggest that the decline phase for McNabb is entering year three now. Which means that the steady consistent production he's become known for is the next thing to go.

Again, you're not getting a prediction from me whether or not he will crash in 2010 or not. I have no ability to accurately tell you which players will have good years and which will not. I can tell you that the point at which McNabb can't even get an NFL job is [U]fewer than three years away[/U]. He won't be in the league when he's 37, as he's just not that kind of player, physically.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=htownskinfan;683243]I cant decide if I like this trade or not.This smells of the Brunell signing.Does Mcnabb have to pass a physical? Just cant believe philly would trade Mcnabb to us unless they know something we dont.If Mcnabb is 100 percent healthy then its a good trade for both teams,I dont think we gave up to much for him[/quote]

The more people I talk to it really seems like Reid genuinely wanted to do right by McNabb, even if it meant trading him within the division. I think he was strong-armed a bit by the new GM and ownership to move McNabb (even though Reid does have final say, and it seems he would have rather moved Kolb...well probably Vick most ideally).

It also has me thinking maybe Reid figures this is his last season in the NFC East anyway

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;683246]Allen and Shanahan both aren't afraid to get rid of people. I believe Landry and Haynesworth were part of early conversations, though it would have involved more from the Eagles beyond McNabb. Not positive though. This trade really snuck up on just about all of us here. We've been so focused on other rumors.[/quote]LOL at your user title.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

DGreen on Sirius now

"McNabb is a winner, I loved it"
"Met with Bruce Allen 2 weeks ago ... He has the spirit of the Redskins in him"
"We haven't had the root system, the tradition of who we[the Redskins] are."
"Let's make sure the OLine is as solid as can be"
"It's the attitude, the way players are talking behind close doors"

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683248]I think if someone like the Ravens or Dolphins started talking picks or players for McNabb, Schefter and or Glazer would have had the scoop almost instantly.

Kicking the tires is fine, and something I expected most teams to do. I think we went a little overboard in terms of checking all of our bases.[/quote]

Not necessarily, these guys sit on rumors all the time until/unless the time is right

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683255]LOL at your user title.[/quote]

:) Your post about having mandatory dodgeball practice was legendary. Had to pay my respects

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683253]Look no further than the injury record for disproof of your statement.

All I'm saying is that the decline signs are readily available for anyone who's interested in looking at them. QB rating kind of obscures it a bit, but most other stats suggest that the decline phase for McNabb is entering year three now. Which means that the steady consistent production he's become known for is the next thing to go.

Again, you're not getting a prediction from me whether or not he will crash in 2010 or not. I have no ability to accurately tell you which players will have good years and which will not. I can tell you that the point at which McNabb can't even get an NFL job is [U]fewer than three years away[/U]. He won't be in the league when he's 37, as he's just not that kind of player, physically.[/quote]

Obviously those injuries did not affect his QB play which is what we're talking about. We're talking about his ability as a quarterback in comparison to Mark Brunell.

And that never stopped you from making predictions such as Colt McCoy being better than McNabb in 2011, Vince Young being better than McNabb, that Brady Quinn was the next Peyton Manning, and so on.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

WOW WHAT????!?!!!!
I just got home from a trip to Ottawa check my espn/nfl/etc. and see this? Mike Shanahan you can just leave now man, you've already done enough! What a great trade!!
My heads spinning in circles just imaging a Mcnabb to Santana Moss 80 yard TD. I think the redskins have just locked up atleast a 7-9 record season.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683200]Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, Joe Flacco, Alex Smith, Matt Leinart, whatever's going on in Minnesota these days.

Mild interest in McNabb at best from those organizations.[/quote]

Mild interest cause some of those teams aren't serious about winning. They're not going to do everything it takes to win. Pulling off a trade like this takes balls and it takes people in the FO that REALLY want to win. If SF makes a trade for McNabb ( gives up their 1st rounder) they're the outright favorite to take their division. Instead they're going to go with a below average QB that's done nothing since he's been in the NFL. Arizona lets Rolle and Dansby walk cause they don't want to pay anyone. And WTF is Denver thinking? They've got some real solid skill guys yet they're going to go w/ Orton and Quinn but not make a play on McNabb?? Snyder has done some shitty moves over the years but I will never question his will to win. And these guys...Shanahan and Allen didn't come here to make the playoffs. They're thinking Super Bowl. I respect that and I trust them. We'll see if they're going about it the right way.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;683259]:) Your post about having mandatory dodgeball practice was legendary. Had to pay my respects[/quote]The fact that it was true doesn't make it any less ridiculous, I suppose.

But seriously, the McNabb deal is that big of a story. It makes [I]College Dodgeball[/I] seem kinda irrelevant.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

Hey guys, hey guys. Does anyone think the Eagles sent McNabb a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dear_John_letter"]"Dear Don"[/URL] letter when they traded him. Jajajajaja

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

Trade Landry.

Trade Campbell.

Pray that Okung falls to #4 or move back.

Must build a proper offensive line.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=Audi;683260]Obviously those injuries did not affect his QB play which is what we're talking about. We're talking about his ability as a quarterback in comparison to Mark Brunell.

And that never stopped you from making predictions such as Colt McCoy being better than McNabb in 2011, Vince Young being better than McNabb, that Brady Quinn was the next Peyton Manning, and so on.[/quote]Or you know, that Jason Taylor wouldn't work out, the Bears overpaid preposterously for Cutler, neither Stafford or Sanchez was worth a top five pick, Orakpo would be a stud, Devin Thomas would stink, etc, Jamarcus Russell had no chance of success, etc.

Should I keep going? Or are you ready to drop this foolish charade.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

Also I think this trade is a clear indicator that the Shannahan's think JC has a piece missing from his overall QB makeup that is not at all fixable.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=Audi;683260]Obviously those injuries did not affect his QB play which is what we're talking about. We're talking about his ability as a quarterback in comparison to Mark Brunell.[/quote]Paid more, got less.

Brunell was asked to come here, be smart with the football, and pretty much just go through the motions. McNabb will be asked to go out and win games for us. Completely different situations which will have very different results.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;683254]The more people I talk to it really seems like Reid genuinely wanted to do right by McNabb, even if it meant trading him within the division. I think he was strong-armed a bit by the new GM and ownership to move McNabb (even though Reid does have final say, and it seems he would have rather moved Kolb...well probably Vick most ideally).

It also has me thinking maybe Reid figures this is his last season in the NFC East anyway[/quote]

He just didn't look right at his presser last night. And the owner seems very fond of McNabb. I know his deal is up after this year but I just guess they felt it was time for Kolb to get on the field.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=wilsowilso;683271]Also I think this trade is a clear indicator that the Shannahan's think JC has a piece missing from his overall QB makeup that is not at all fixable.[/quote]Probably the most likely case.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=wilsowilso;683268]Trade Landry.

Trade Campbell.

Pray that Okung falls to #4 or move back.

Must build a proper offensive line.[/quote]

What are you a cop? It's like

"Guy goes in, see's no one there, takes the jewelry and splits. Walks into the kitchen and bam, partner stabs him in the heart."

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683269]Or you know, that Jason Taylor wouldn't work out, the Bears overpaid preposterously for Cutler, neither Stafford or Sanchez was worth a top five pick, Orakpo would be a stud, Devin Thomas would stink, etc, Jamarcus Russell had no chance of success, etc.

Should I keep going? Or are you ready to drop this foolish charade.[/quote]

You can keep going, but it doesn't change the fact that you are often wrong despite the high horse you sit on.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683242]I don't know why you think that getting a QB who is incapable of producing when he throws 45+ times a game is so self-evidently awesome, and I think if you want to show that McNabb can benefit by inheriting a running game that, if nothing else, will take a lot of his passing attempts, you should try to go and build that case.

So far, I'm gathering that you think it's easier for any QB to be successful in the Shanahan system than in other systems. Anyone except Jason Campbell, of course, because that would completely ruin your already "interesting" argument.

I kind of agree with you that McNabb is a little bit out of place in the stat-inflating system that is the WCO. I'm sure glad that he's in a system now that has limited WCO elements. Oh, wait.[/quote]
You're good at assuming shit about people who disagree with you. Too good. But DON'T go around recklessly using [URL="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/folkpsych-simulation/"]inference from simulation [/URL]of what of anti-Campbell dumbasses argue is representative of what I think can work or not work in Shanahan's offense.

Alex Smith would not work in this O, because he's too much tied to the spread offense.
Orton and Pennington would not work as well because they can't attack the deep secondary, which in turns limits what Shanahan can exploit.
Brett Farve would be better than McNabb in this O. Just as good ability to attack deep, but better on the intermediate and shorter throws(quick slant).
Jason Campbell is woefully inconsistent. Throws that should be routine are a chore to him, and he has shown very little that he has other skills to adequately compensate.

Is that sufficient for you to stop calumniating me in that I think ANY(YES, YOU SAID ANY, which means all I have to do is mention JUST ONE example of where another QB would stink it up with Shanahan, and I mentioned three) QB is better than JC.

This isn't about stats. This is about McNabb's skillset. And I love to see your crazy argument that a one-dimensional offense doesn't inhibit the QB. Having a running game makes the probability that the D will bite on play action or think the play is a run MUCH MORE OFTEN.

Steve Deberg also had inflated stats. That didn't mean Walsh thought he was worth sticking with over Montana.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

Aaron Schatz: not someone I talked to.

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2010/washingtons-small-upgrade]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Washington's Small Upgrade[/url]

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683272]Paid more, got less.

Brunell was asked to come here, be smart with the football, and pretty much just go through the motions. McNabb will be asked to go out and win games for us. Completely different situations which will have very different results.[/quote]

What are you rambling on about now?

The guy said he thought it might be similar to the Brunell situation. I said it's not. Now what is the point you are trying to make?

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683229]Draft picks retained: not relevant.[/quote]

youre not considering what could have been done with the 2nd round pick. How about this? Wait until the 37th pick is made in the draft and let us know if that player (or any player still available at that point) is better than McNabb.

At MOST, you could say there's a [B]chance[/B] that a player available at that point could contribute more to the team over the next 3-4 years than McNabb. But not a single player available at that point - at any position - would be clearly better than McNabb.

Yes, McNabb is not the long-term answer at QB. But the fact is, using a top draft pick on a quarterback would be the worst possible thing this team could do right now. Right now, if we drafted a QB, it would be by a coaching staff and GM in their first 4 months on the job. the scouts evaluating QB prospects are vinny cerrato holdovers awaiting unemployment.

Finding a franchise QB in the NFL draft is one of (if not the) hardest things to do in all of professional sports. By trading for McNabb, we've bought ourselves a couple of years to find him. When we do, the task will be handled by a GM, head coach, and scouting department who have all been working together for at least one or two full seasons.

And when we fiinally find that franchise QB, he'll be learning the ropes from a future Hall-of-Fame quarterback and not Jason Campbell or Rex Grossman.

Unless McNabb really has absolutely nothing left in the tank, I simply don't understand how anyone can think the Skins made a bad move.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=Audi;683276]You can keep going, but it doesn't change the fact that you are often wrong despite the high horse you sit on.[/quote]Well, no, you just made an ad-hoc attack to misrepresent what I predicted at the time to try to build a case that I don't know what I'm talking about here, EVEN THOUGH, my record gives me great credibility, no matter how good I thought Brady Quinn could be coming out of Notre Dame (update: quite good, not Manning good, he was not No. 1 on my board that year).

And once the argument leaves the point where you're debating the facts, it's clear you'd rather I be wrong than you be right.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;683275]What are you a cop? It's like

"Guy goes in, see's no one there, takes the jewelry and splits. Walks into the kitchen and bam, partner stabs him in the heart."[/quote]

I have no idea what this means?

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;683281]youre not considering what could have been done with the 2nd round pick. How about this? Wait until the 37th pick is made in the draft and let us know if that player (or any player still available at that point) is better than McNabb.[/quote]Fair enough, excellent way to frame it, BHA.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=wilsowilso;683284]I have no idea what this means?[/quote]

It's just that you talked about it so generally. Like a cop going through a crime scene and speculating what he thinks happened.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683283]Well, no, you just made an ad-hoc attack to misrepresent what I predicted at the time to try to build a case that I don't know what I'm talking about here, EVEN THOUGH, my record gives me great credibility.

And once the argument leaves the point where you're debating the facts, it's clear you'd rather I be wrong than you be right.[/quote]

No, that's not what I was doing at all.

I brought up your previous predictions to contrast to this following declaration you made:

"Again, you're not getting a prediction from me whether or not he will crash in 2010 or not."

I do see that you have a problem with following the conversation and sticking to the point, though.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=htownskinfan;683243]I cant decide if I like this trade or not.This smells of the Brunell signing.Does Mcnabb have to pass a physical? [B]Just cant believe philly would trade Mcnabb to us unless they know something we dont.[/B]If Mcnabb is 100 percent healthy then its a good trade for both teams,I dont think we gave up to much for him[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]It definitely has that Brunell smell to it.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]They know that we have finished at the bottom of our division for about 10 years straight, and thats not likely to change much this year or next. They also probably had no intentions of resigning him after this year and thought that the Redskins could be likely suitors for him next year especially if we kept Campbell around this year. So yeah they send a their pretty good qb to us, but we are the worst team in the division so how bad could it be. So in exchange for a guy that was going to be cut in a year they get a very high second (immediate contributor) and probably a third next year. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Also for people that were against the Gaither potential trade for the simple fact that we can sign him in FA next year you shouldnt be for this trade. It’s the same thing, except a little more costly pick-wise. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

I would like to state two things for the record.

I called on this site that Brady Quinn would be a bust.

I said one moth before the season started last year that I thought Jim Zorn was a great coach.


Brady>Manning

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;683278]You're good at assuming shit about people who disagree with you. Too good. But DON'T go around recklessly using [URL="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/folkpsych-simulation/"]inference from simulation [/URL]of what of anti-Campbell dumbasses argue is representative of what I think can work or not work in Shanahan's offense.

Alex Smith would not work in this O, because he's too much tied to the spread offense.
Orton and Pennington would not work as well because they can't attack the deep secondary, which in turns limits what Shanahan can exploit.
Brett Farve would be better than McNabb in this O. Just as good ability to attack deep, but better on the intermediate and shorter throws(quick slant).
Jason Campbell is woefully inconsistent. Throws that should be routine are a chore to him, and he has shown very little that he has other skills to adequately compensate.

Is that sufficient for you to stop calumniating me in that I think ANY(YES, YOU SAID ANY, which means all I have to do is mention JUST ONE example of where another QB would stink it up with Shanahan, and I mentioned three) QB is better than JC.

This isn't about stats. This is about McNabb's skillset. And I love to see your crazy argument that a one-dimensional offense doesn't inhibit the QB. Having a running game makes the probability that the D will bite on play action or think the play is a run MUCH MORE OFTEN.

Steve Deberg also had inflated stats. That didn't mean Walsh thought he was worth sticking with over Montana.[/quote]Burden of proof is on you, dude. It's your claim that Reid's offense was so unbalanced that it make McNabb's job difficult, not mine. As a hypothesis, I think it's legit, but you might as well put "I think" before it because I don't have to agree with every distant assumption you make, just like you don't have to agree with the way I use completion percentage and sack rate to show value.

In the absence of personal expertise on what makes the Shanahan offense click, your entire argument is valueless. You critique me for appealing to my own expertise, but I'm very forthright in where I'm deriving my opinions. You just write stuff seemingly to make me read it.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=wilsowilso;683292]I would like to state two things for the record.

I called on this site that Brady Quinn would be a bust.

I said one moth before the season started last year that I thought Jim Zorn was a great coach.


Brady>Manning[/quote]That's three things cleverly disguised as two!

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;683296]That's three things cleverly disguised as two![/quote]

Whenever I know that you are around I try to make sure you are on the ball.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=Audi;683288]No, that's not what I was doing at all.

I brought up your previous predictions to contrast to this following declaration you made:

"Again, you're not getting a prediction from me whether or not he will crash in 2010 or not."

I do see that you have a problem with following the conversation and sticking to the point, though.[/quote]Considering that I'm having 5 different conversations in the same thread, you'll have to forgive me for such fallibility.

You're still not getting a single-year prediction from me, just an obvious observation regarding the evidence that disproves that there are no signs of decline for McNabb. No idea why this reluctance to predict something I don't have a great read on caused you to bring up some wide range of things I predicted.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

[quote=wilsowilso;683298]Whenever I know that you are around I try to make sure you are on the ball.[/quote]I lol'ed.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

Funny how a year ago it seemed like Cutler was going to be a Redskin and rumors were out there about McNabb ending up in Chicago.

Re: McNabb a Redskin! (Part II)
 

Now that it's done, I'm 90% in favor. But the one thing that's been on my mind is pick #37 this year. In the long run, wouldn't it have been better to take the two best offensive tackles in the 1st and 2nd knowing how horrific the line was last year?

Doesn't matter anymore though.