Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;684213]Hey Smoot i don't normally disagree with you man, but When Gibbs had his retirement press conference, he stated clearly that had he stayed on, he would have had a training camp battle between Todd Collins, and Jason Campbell, so clearly his loyalty at that point to Campbell took a backseat to what was best for the football team.

Gibbs had a reputation for sticking with his QBs while they were struggling, but even he would eventually relent and bench someone when it clearly wasn't working. Look at Brunell in 2004, benched after 9 games. In 2005 Brunell came back and had a Monster Year. In 2006, after winning only 3 games, Brunell was benched. Even more, Gibbs said he thought about benching Campbell in 2007 even before his knee injury....[/quote]

I meant more in terms of the chaos the ensued when Gibbs left...but let's not turn this thread into a Gibbs/Zorn transition discussion

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=skinsfan69;684223]Not surprising that he's not going to Redskin Park. No big deal. I think what JC is going to find is there isn't a market out there for him to be a starter. Carolina is going w/ Moore, Oakland and Buffalo are maybes but does he really want to go to those two places? Ralph Wilson is nuts and their organization isn't stable. Oakland is a complete joke. IMO his best bet is to come back here and compete w/ Grossman and learn from Shanahan and co.[/quote]

Right now I don't think he's especially interested in Buffalo and Oakland, but who knows. Panthers only made a one year commitment to Moore so he may not be the long-term answer. San Fran is also a possibility, I don't think they're truly committed to Alex Smith

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Audi;684128]I think Jason Campbell was treated better than most quarterbacks.

He was provided in chronological order:

- A 1500 yard receiver. (Santana Moss)
- A 1500 yard runningback. (Clinton Portis)
- A stud tight end. (Chris Cooley)
- A HOF coach. (Joe Gibbs)
- A highly-regarded defensive coordinator. (Gregg Williams)
- A solid offensive line. (2006, 2007, 1/2 of 2008)
- Time on the bench to learn, instead of being thrown to the wolves.
- A highly-regarded offensive coordinator. (Al Saunders)
- He was designated as 3rd string his first two years but given the opportunity to leapfrog Todd Collins. (2006)
- A playoff team (2007).
- A good defense (2007, 2008, 2009).
- Unquestioned as starter (2007, 2008, 2009).
- A coach committed to Jason Campbell (Jim Zorn).

Please, can anyone name any other quarterback who lost as much as Jason Campbell in 52 starts that was treated better?

And obviously some people want to use the hiring of Al Saunders as some sort of obstacle in Jason Campbell's career, so why would anyone want to give him the benefit of the doubt with the hiring of the Shanahans?[/quote]

What Jason & the Redskins didn't have prior to this year is organizational stability without that everything else is irrelevant.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;684204]Collins i feel deserves at least a little respect, maybe moreso than JC, because he stepped in and won 4 straight games and took us to the playoffs.

That right there is more than Campbell ever did in DC. That being said, business is business. There was no upside in a 38 year old backup quarterback, unless he was trying to be our Brett Favre....[/quote]

Not only did Collins take us to the playoffs but we were poised to make a Super Bowl run. Unfortunately a few bad bounces worked against us in Seattle and we were shown an early exit but I feel like that team could have easily made it to the Super Bowl. They were that hot.

Also, did anyone realize that Todd Collins was a second round pick?

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;684232]What Jason & the Redskins didn't have prior to this year is organizational stability without that everything else is irrelevant.[/quote]

What is organizational stability? What if Donovan McNabb or any other Redskins quarterback goes 6-10 (to approximately tie Campbell's .385 winning percentage) or better on a completely new Redskins team?

Why would Donovan McNabb or Rex Grossman or Colt Brennan be able to match Jason Campbell despite the lack of organizational stability?

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=SmootSmack;684228]Right now I don't think he's especially interested in Buffalo and Oakland, but who knows. Panthers only made a one year commitment to Moore so he may not be the long-term answer. San Fran is also a possibility, I don't think they're truly committed to Alex Smith[/quote]

I hope JC goes to San Fran or the Panthers. Better weather than Buffalo and less dysfunction than Oakland.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Lotus;684249]I hope JC goes to San Fran or the Panthers. Better weather than Buffalo and less dysfunction than Oakland.[/quote]

Lol, have you ever been to San Fran?

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Audi;684247]What is organizational stability? What if Donovan McNabb or any other Redskins quarterback goes 6-10 (to approximately tie Campbell's .385 winning percentage) or better on a completely new Redskins team?

Why would Donovan McNabb or Rex Grossman or Colt Brennan be able to match Jason Campbell despite the lack of organizational stability?[/quote]

An unorganized franchise like the Redskins prior to this year

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;684266]An unorganized franchise like the Redskins prior to this year[/quote]

Can you actually state the difference between this year and prior years?

This year is a new year with a brand new system and new coaches, something that Jason Campbell is adverse to. Since he's demonstrated that he's going to use anything new as an excuse, it makes much more sense to find a quarterback who will use something new as an opportunity.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;684252]Lol, have you ever been to San Fran?[/quote]

I live here. Fog in the summer on the coast, sunny with no rain from May to November, winters last at the most 2 months if you call winter dipping into the 50's or 40's.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

QB's at Redskins Park today:

Donavan McNabb
Sam Bradford
Colt McCoy

QB's at HOME today:
Jason Campbell

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Audi;684128]I think Jason Campbell was treated better than most quarterbacks.

He was provided in chronological order:

- A 1500 yard receiver. (Santana Moss)
- A 1500 yard runningback. (Clinton Portis)
- A stud tight end. (Chris Cooley)
- A HOF coach. (Joe Gibbs)
- A highly-regarded defensive coordinator. (Gregg Williams)
- A solid offensive line. (2006, 2007, 1/2 of 2008)
- Time on the bench to learn, instead of being thrown to the wolves.
- A highly-regarded offensive coordinator. (Al Saunders)
- He was designated as 3rd string his first two years but given the opportunity to leapfrog Todd Collins. (2006)
- A playoff team (2007).
- A good defense (2007, 2008, 2009).
- Unquestioned as starter (2007, 2008, 2009).
- A coach committed to Jason Campbell (Jim Zorn).

Please, can anyone name any other quarterback who lost as much as Jason Campbell in 52 starts that was treated better?

And obviously some people want to use the hiring of Al Saunders as some sort of obstacle in Jason Campbell's career, so why would anyone want to give him the benefit of the doubt with the hiring of the Shanahans?[/quote]

Let's go back to your list that you composed of what Jason had. I simply said that was irrelevant because of lack of organizational stability. If Vinny & Danny pulled this deal off with McNabb it would be a big disappointment not once since now has Danny had any sense of direction. Allen/Shanny are football minds won Super Bowls they know how to get back there. Danny's only sense of direction was to buy a championship. So if your list of super tools that JC had at his disposal was so relevant explain why Danny doesn't any Super Bowls Titles under his era as owner the past 10 years? It doesn't work that way they were plenty of pieces there that was true, plenty of individual accomplishments but together they sucked as a team from lack of leadership & direction from the owner down to the head coach

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;684275]I live here. Fog in the summer on the coast, sunny with no rain from May to November, winters last at the most 2 months if you call winter dipping into the 50's or 40's.[/quote]

I was talking about the crazy people that live there, and no not the gays....well some of the weirdos happen to be gay but thats neither here nor there. Theres also this guy named SFREDSKIN that lives there and let me tell you, he's like King of the Crazies.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;684304]Let's go back to your list that you composed of what Jason had. I simply said that was irrelevant because of lack of organizational stability. If Vinny & Danny pulled this deal off with McNabb it would be a big disappointment not once since now has Danny had any sense of direction. Allen/Shanny are football minds won Super Bowls they know how to get back there. Danny's only sense of direction was to buy a championship. So if your list of super tools that JC had at his disposal was so relevant explain why Danny doesn't any Super Bowls Titles under his era as owner the past 10 years? It doesn't work that way they were plenty of pieces there that was true, plenty of individual accomplishments but together they sucked as a team from lack of leadership & direction from the owner down to the head coach[/quote]

If what you're saying is true, then how did the team make the playoffs in 2005 and 2007? No, they did not make the Super Bowl, but they also did not have as horrible a record as with Jason Campbell.

Also, I don't understand how it's the organization's fault when Jason Campbell misses simple reads that have been highlighted ad nauseum. Did Campbell drop back and start thinking about "organizational instability" when Santana Moss or Malcolm Kelly broke wide open?

Was Campbell thinking about "organizational instability" when he forgot the down and distance and decided to check it to a run play to Betts on 3rd and long?

Was Campbell thinking about "organizational instability" when he ran past the line of scrimmage and threw an interception?

I don't think so.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

pulled a JC and misread

nvm

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=johno;684000]i really want to know what was said yesterday at lunch between JC and Shanny. this is certainly a response to what has transpired in the last 48 hours.[/quote]

Shanahan said JC was forthright and basically asked if he was at liberty to go find a team that would want him as a starting QB and Shanahan told him yes if he could find one they would entertain talks. Otherwise JC will be just another QB on our list come day one if he can't.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;684302]QB's at Redskins Park today:

Donavan McNabb
Sam Bradford
Colt McCoy

QB's at HOME today:
Jason Campbell[/quote]

Thanks for that breaking news, slowpoke.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;684302]QB's at Redskins Park today:

Donavan McNabb
Sam Bradford
Colt McCoy

QB's at HOME today:
Jason Campbell[/quote]

wo.. how u no that?

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Audi;684331]If what you're saying is true, then how did the team make the playoffs in 2005 and 2007? No, they did not make the Super Bowl, but they also did not have as horrible a record as with Jason Campbell.

Also, I don't understand how it's the organization's fault when Jason Campbell misses simple reads that have been highlighted ad nauseum. Did Campbell drop back and start thinking about "organizational instability" when Santana Moss or Malcolm Kelly broke wide open?

[B]Was Campbell thinking about "organizational instability" when he forgot the down and distance and decided to check it to a run play to Betts on 3rd and long?

Was Campbell thinking about "organizational instability" when he ran past the line of scrimmage and threw an interception?[/B]

I don't think so.[/quote]
Crap, you know what those two points made me ask myself:

Did someone tell Donovan about the new OT rules? Damn I hope he knows we need a TD on the first possession!(in post season)

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Audi;684331]If what you're saying is true, then how did the team make the playoffs in 2005 and 2007? No, they did not make the Super Bowl, but they also did not have as horrible a record as with Jason Campbell.

Also, I don't understand how it's the organization's fault when Jason Campbell misses simple reads that have been highlighted ad nauseum. Did Campbell drop back and start thinking about "organizational instability" when Santana Moss or Malcolm Kelly broke wide open?

Was Campbell thinking about "organizational instability" when he forgot the down and distance and decided to check it to a run play to Betts on 3rd and long?

Was Campbell thinking about "organizational instability" when he ran past the line of scrimmage and threw an interception?

I don't think so.[/quote]

Ok, what you posted about him missing read and stuff is once again irrelevant to the fact JC didn't lose 12 games by himself either. So when you pick out certain plays out the season as note the Landry double move against the Saints was on JC, Kareem Moore Int- Td error was on JC, Sellers fumble was on JC as well. It's not hard to pick out bad plays everyone had them.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Audi;684331]If what you're saying is true, then how did the team make the playoffs in 2005 and 2007? No, they did not make the Super Bowl, but they also did not have as horrible a record as with Jason Campbell.

[/quote]

They had superb QB play both playoff seasons. In 2005, Mark Brunell, who took over for an injured Patrick Ramsey on opening day, played lights out as did the whole team. MB's stats: 3,050 yards, 23 TD's, 10 INT's...career year for him.

In 2007, Todd Collins won 4 games in a row, beating the cowboys to sneak into the playoffs at 9 and 7. Collins that season had the #2 passer ranking behind only Tom Brady.

With JC we were not getting superb QB play. We were getting barely mediocre play, and that is why the other two guys (Brunell, Collins), were able to do so much more with essentially the same talent...

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;684311]I was talking about the crazy people that live there, and no not the gays....well some of the weirdos happen to be gay but thats neither here nor there. Theres also this guy named SFREDSKIN that lives there and let me tell you, he's like King of the Crazies.[/quote]

Oh no doubt, there's a bunch of freaks in SF. Halloween last 365 days and there's lots of cornholios and carpet munchers (mainly in Berkeley).

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

paging Gtripp

[url=http://gforce083ts.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=5432821]Gforce083 Trade Site - Jason Campbell NFT[/url]

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

He's likely gonna be Raider or Bill. A lot of other teams are committed to a QB, one has one that would probably beat him easily(Moore), the other has said no interest(Jacksonville)

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=tryfuhl;684372]wo.. how u no that?[/quote]
Chris Mortensen of ESPN. What I posted was a quote from his twitter account.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;684394]Chris Mortensen of ESPN. What I posted was a quote from his twitter account.[/quote]

:laughing2:doh:

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;684394]Chris Mortensen of ESPN. What I posted was a quote from his twitter account.[/quote]:smashfrea:Flush::goodjob:

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

Bad situation for him...again. I hope he starts for a team next year that is not the Redskins (barring a DM5 injury). Id love to get Al Davis to bite on a Haynesworth JC trade

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Audi;684331]If what you're saying is true, then how did the team make the playoffs in 2005 and 2007? No, they did not make the Super Bowl, but they also did not have as horrible a record as with Jason Campbell.

Also, I don't understand how it's the organization's fault when Jason Campbell misses simple reads that have been highlighted ad nauseum. Did Campbell drop back and start thinking about "organizational instability" when Santana Moss or Malcolm Kelly broke wide open?

Was Campbell thinking about "organizational instability" when he forgot the down and distance and decided to check it to a run play to Betts on 3rd and long?

Was Campbell thinking about "organizational instability" when he ran past the line of scrimmage and threw an interception?

I don't think so.[/quote]I have no idea if you are being serious or not. I think you are playing all of us for fools.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

Edit - nevermind. I'm tired.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Audi;684331]If what you're saying is true, then how did the team make the playoffs in 2005 and 2007? No, they did not make the Super Bowl, but they also did not have as horrible a record as with Jason Campbell.

Also, I don't understand how it's the organization's fault when Jason Campbell misses simple reads that have been highlighted ad nauseum. Did Campbell drop back and start thinking about "organizational instability" when Santana Moss or Malcolm Kelly broke wide open?

Was Campbell thinking about "organizational instability" when he forgot the down and distance and decided to check it to a run play to Betts on 3rd and long?

Was Campbell thinking about "organizational instability" when he ran past the line of scrimmage and threw an interception?

I don't think so.[/quote]

While I haven't read your entire rant, you basically are defending the POS organization we had in order to just prove that Campbell was a bad QB?

Campbell was a bad QB as a result of a combination of his own faults as well as the terrible situation he was put by the front office of this team. Many QBs would have failed under the situations he was in and he didn't have enough talent to overcome them. Plain and simple. A Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees can overcome these things, not an average QB like Campbell.

If you want to feel good about yourself and kick the guy while he's down, feel free to do so. But don't come with this stupid argument that the Cerrato/Snyder regime gave him opportunities to win. The entire Cerrato/Snyder regime was a failure and please don't insult our intelligence by defending it just because you have a petty bias against one player.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=tryfuhl;684382]paging Gtripp

[url=http://gforce083ts.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=5432821]Gforce083 Trade Site - Jason Campbell NFT[/url][/quote]

GTripp needs a rival statistician. Someone to play Mel Kiper/Todd McShay to his Todd McShay/Mel Kiper.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

Man I just don't have the patience to analyze all of that stuff haha

Well with the humidity below 75pct and wind above 10mph adjusted for whether the NT's shoes were tied bunny ears style or the snake wrapping up the bunny, he completed 7-10 passes past the 1st down marker if the ref had a grass stain on his uniform from an inadvertent hit on the previous play, unless the wind was coming from SSW and creating a swirl from the upper bowl on down, behind the our own 35 yard line, unless we got there from a holding call

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=GTripp0012;684435]I have no idea if you are being serious or not. I think you are playing all of us for fools.[/quote]

I'm not surprised you have no idea.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Ruhskins;684438]While I haven't read your entire rant, you basically are defending the POS organization we had in order to just prove that Campbell was a bad QB?

Campbell was a bad QB as a result of a combination of his own faults as well as the terrible situation he was put by the front office of this team. Many QBs would have failed under the situations he was in and he didn't have enough talent to overcome them. Plain and simple. A Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees can overcome these things, not an average QB like Campbell.

If you want to feel good about yourself and kick the guy while he's down, feel free to do so. But don't come with this stupid argument that the Cerrato/Snyder regime gave him opportunities to win. The entire Cerrato/Snyder regime was a failure and please don't insult our intelligence by defending it just because you have a petty bias against one player.[/quote]

The Cerrato/Snyder regime's failures culminated in one year and that's 2009.

Mark Brunell and Todd Collins are proof that you don't need Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Drew Brees to overcome the "terrible situation" that Jason Campbell was placed in. Even Patrick Ramsey did better with worse.

Don't let your hate for Cerrato/Snyder blind you from Jason Campbell's shortcomings. The evidence is there.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;684374]Crap, you know what those two points made me ask myself:

Did someone tell Donovan about the new OT rules? Damn I hope he knows we need a TD on the first possession!(in post season)[/quote]

It's okay. We can blame it on "organizational instability".

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;684375]Ok, what you posted about him missing read and stuff is once again irrelevant to the fact JC didn't lose 12 games by himself either. So when you pick out certain plays out the season as note the Landry double move against the Saints was on JC, Kareem Moore Int- Td error was on JC, Sellers fumble was on JC as well. It's not hard to pick out bad plays everyone had them.[/quote]

No, but Jason Campbell is not the only reason they lose games, but he is a huge part of them. The bane of this team has been the offense, and the bane of the offense has been the passing game, and the bane of the passing game has been Jason Campbell.

Isn't it funny how Chris Cooley, Santana Moss, Chris Samuels, and Clinton Portis have all succeeded in various situations with various quarterbacks and various coaches, yet when it's with Jason Campbell, they are just not good enough.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

I think you'd be hard pressed to blame Portis' issues on Campbell.

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTripp0012
I have no idea if you are being serious or not. I think you are playing all of us for fools.

[quote=Audi;684458]I'm not surprised you have no idea.[/quote]

I'm not surprised either. That Audi post was kinda silly. People screamed at Brunell for not going deep jsut like they do Campbell. They dismissed his completion record as if they were all dump offs to portis and betts or something.

As for Collins, the WHOLE TEAM fought for those wins. Todd didn't have any remarkable plays where he won the game or anything like that. The D shut teams down and Todd did what a backup is supposed to do, not be the guy that loses the game.

You want a real view of Todd, look at that ugly stank@$$ performance in the playoff game! Once he threw that first ugly pick he turned into Heath Schuler, Jay Schreoder, and BAD Brett Favre put together! He was acting too scared, throwing ugly crap, and when he DID try it was ridiculous! I wish Campbell was in that game. When he throws a pick, he comes back in and doesn't let it kill his whole game like a true professional. Campbell ain't the best, but he doesnt' get worse after getting hit or throwing a pick. Todd Collins... Pssshh... good ridance

If someone is a backup for a decade, theres probably a good reason for it

Re: Campbell will now stay away from Redskins Park
 

I want to see a play action that looks even remotely like it might be a handoff for the first time in years.