Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=hooskins;689845]Like PFT says, if Bradford slips we would probably pick him. But how will that possibly happen?[/quote]

Stranger things.

If Bradford doesn't go 1 then he has a better than average chance to get to us. Obviously Det isn't taking him so at 3 TB would have the choice of the other DT(assuming one of them went 1) the best QB, the best S, the best OT. God knows what that monkey team would do with all those options. They'll probably screw it up and take the DT but maybe they'll get some sense and take Bradford.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

Bradford will go #1, the Rams would be insane to pass on him.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

Maybe McNabb's extension process isn't going well.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=Mattyk;689840]This close to the draft every word coming from teams should be considered a smokescreen[/quote]

This.

The fact that StL hasn't gotten a contract done is interesting. I guess maybe they're using the top picks against each other to maybe get the best deal. So they'll just take the cheapest option? Why else would they not be negotiating yet? They have to know what player they like best by now.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

too many people get caught up in that 4-12 record last season.

I see a team that had enough talent that we almost finished 8-8. Games like the Cowboys 7-6 loss. Or the loss to Detroit. or even the final game against San Diego.
This team had the worst coaching staff in the league, worst game planning, changed offensive coodinators in mid season, had the most conservative defensive coach in history, had the Owner meeting weekly and pressuring the coach, had the operations director(mini G.M.) Vinnie tearing the club apart with his changes and silly remarks, and just generally the Redskins were falling apart all last season. Plus the entire offensive line was injury prone as was everybody else because of a lack of training.

Yet this team remained competitive and nearly finished 8-8 because of a field goal or 2 that got missed. Enter Donovan McNabb, Mike Shanahan, and Bruce Allen, and hopefully a replacement for Chris Samuels, and this team could be 10-6. This team as it stands now, is probably only a couple of players away from being a playoff team because we need a left tackle and we could use another guard as well.

So those of you who believe that picking up 4-5 extra draft picks and bringing in 6 or 7 rookies will make this team better...think again. Rookies rarely have an impact on a team outside of a few #1 draft picks. I think ONE great rookie will have more impact than a handfull of lower round picks.

Draft Okung and be done with it.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=FRPLG;689857]This.

The fact that StL hasn't gotten a contract done is interesting. I guess maybe they're using the top picks against each other to maybe get the best deal. So they'll just take the cheapest option? Why else would they not be negotiating yet? They have to know what player they like best by now.[/quote]

They're probably just holding out hope that someone wants to make a deal and trade up.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=internetcareer;689859]too many people get caught up in that 4-12 record last season.

I see a team that had enough talent that we almost finished 8-8. Games like the Cowboys 7-6 loss. Or the loss to Detroit. or even the final game against San Diego.
This team had the worst coaching staff in the league, worst game planning, changed offensive coodinators in mid season, had the most conservative defensive coach in history, had the Owner meeting weekly and pressuring the coach, had the operations director(mini G.M.) Vinnie tearing the club apart with his changes and silly remarks, and just generally the Redskins were falling apart all last season. Plus the entire offensive line was injury prone as was everybody else because of a lack of training.

Yet this team remained competitive and nearly finished 8-8 because of a field goal or 2 that got missed. Enter Donovan McNabb, Mike Shanahan, and Bruce Allen, and hopefully a replacement for Chris Samuels, and this team could be 10-6. This team as it stands now, is probably only a couple of players away from being a playoff team because we need a left tackle and we could use another guard as well.

So those of you who believe that picking up 4-5 extra draft picks and bringing in 6 or 7 rookies will make this team better...think again. Rookies rarely have an impact on a team outside of a few #1 draft picks. I think ONE great rookie will have more impact than a handfull of lower round picks.

Draft Okung and be done with it.[/quote]

I hear ya to a degree but 4-12 is 4-12. The shoulda, coulda, woulda argument doesn't do much for me.

Fact is we have a lot of needs and if we can pick up some extra picks in this deep draft those picks could go a long way in helping to rebuild the core of this roster.

I think we'll end up taking Okung at #4 but we could end up making some deals later involving players (JC?) to pick up some extra picks.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=Mattyk;689862]They're probably just holding out hope that someone wants to make a deal and trade up.[/quote]

Yeah I guess but that is a dangerous risk. Once they draft a guy they lose every bit of contract leverage that they currently hold. They need a lot to nmake that a good team but they have a shot at a franchise QB. Not time to dick around. Sign him before the draft and avoid a holdout.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=FRPLG;689865]Yeah I guess but that is a dangerous risk. Once they draft a guy they lose every bit of contract leverage that they currently hold. They need a lot to nmake that a good team but they have a shot at a franchise QB. Not time to dick around. Sign him before the draft and avoid a holdout.[/quote]

Yeah who knows, maybe we'll start hearing some buzz this week about them negotiating with someone. If not maybe there is some genuine interest from someone in dealing up?

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=internetcareer;689859]too many people get caught up in that 4-12 record last season.

I see a team that had enough talent that we almost finished 8-8. Games like the Cowboys 7-6 loss. Or the loss to Detroit. or even the final game against San Diego.
This team had the worst coaching staff in the league, worst game planning, changed offensive coodinators in mid season, had the most conservative defensive coach in history, had the Owner meeting weekly and pressuring the coach, had the operations director(mini G.M.) Vinnie tearing the club apart with his changes and silly remarks, and just generally the Redskins were falling apart all last season. Plus the entire offensive line was injury prone as was everybody else because of a lack of training.

Yet this team remained competitive and nearly finished 8-8 because of a field goal or 2 that got missed. Enter Donovan McNabb, Mike Shanahan, and Bruce Allen, and hopefully a replacement for Chris Samuels, and this team could be 10-6. This team as it stands now, is probably only a couple of players away from being a playoff team because we need a left tackle and we could use another guard as well.

So those of you who believe that picking up 4-5 extra draft picks and bringing in 6 or 7 rookies will make this team better...think again. Rookies rarely have an impact on a team outside of a few #1 draft picks. I think ONE great rookie will have more impact than a handfull of lower round picks.

Draft Okung and be done with it.[/quote]

Is it possible to strongly agree and strongly disagree with one post and not be schizophrenic?

I hope so, because that's how I feel about this post. To say this team "remained competitive" is the ultimate rose colored glasses. We lost to DETROIT(0-20something at the time), and barely beat St. Louis(the worst team last year) in the beginning of the season, and were BLOWN AWAY EMBARRASSINGLY by the NY:vomit:Giants, who went on to suffer two 40pt defeats in a row, at the end of the season. We were competitive for maybe 3-4 games last season, that we won 4 was amazing from what our team put on the field.

That said, I agree wholeheartedly that the team absolutely suffered at the hands of all you mentioned, no need for the re-hash. OL play suffered from musical chairs as much if not more so than from injuries.

If we pick up 4-5 picks in the 5th-7th round that would be dumb. IF we pick up 4-5 picks with several in the top 100, that would be incredible. We may have a fairly solid roster (from JoeRedskins post last week) but we also need an infusion of skilled youth, and more OL talent than just one LT.

For me, if we trade back like cleveland did last year I would be ecstatic. If we take Okung, and sit till 103, I would be happy with Okung, and bummed that we could not take advantage of the depth in this draft class.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

Whats perplexing is Kyle Shanahan stated in one of his interviews that he is satisfied with the OL product we have now. Said he has no problem with the OL as it is right now and believes we would be competative... as is. When asked who he would use at LT he stated Heyer was the LT today (meaning Sun.). He basically said most people think with the zone blocking scheme teams need smaller faster OL and he stated thats a fabrication. He stated they prefer big guys who are fast or can move in space relatively well.

So my question is.... is there any possible way between Buges and Zorns scheme is the reason the OL did not do so well and the new coach's have seen this and are happy with our talent?

[QUOTE]On how he feels about the offensive line:

“I'm real excited about our offensive line. They talk about that that's been a weakness and stuff, but I don't see it on tape and I don't see it on the field. We've got some real good players. I think we've got some big guys who aren't just big guys who stand still. We got some big guys who can move.



“We've just got to get them in shape and get them used to running the zone scheme, and running and cutting and I think we've got a good chance there.”



On if he sees a difference in the team compared to on tape:

“No. It's not different. It's tough when you watch tape of an old staff; you don't want to watch too much, because you're not watching scheme. You don't know what they're asking players to do, so you're not really evaluating that. You're trying to watch the individual. When you watch the individual, you do see talent. You see size and you also see speed. And as a coach, that's all you can ask for.



“Now we want to get them on the field and see. We know they're talented. Can they do what we're asking them to do? Each day they got better, and hopefully by training camp they'll continue to grow.”



On the zone blocking scheme:

“All 32 teams use the zone blocking scheme. I just think the difference in the commitment to it. We're going to commit to it. We're not going to do much else. We're committed to running the zone, getting guys moving, and I really think it's just what you emphasize.”



On what makes a good offensive lineman:

“Everyone thinks you want them small and quick. Well, we want them fast. They have to be able to run. We want a big guy, too. Not all big guys can run; if you can get a big guy who can run, then you've got Pro Bowl type players. It's just hard to find those guys, but when you have them you couldn't look for anything else.”



On if he is confident in the left tackles on the roster:

“Oh yeah.”



On if he is confident in the left tackles on the roster as of today:

“You better feel confident going into the draft with every position you have, because I've been around enough -- not too long, but around enough -- to realize that if you're dependent on getting a player in the draft, you're going to be pretty disappointed because it rarely works out that way.



“You get your team, you've got to be good to go through free agency and what you see out here, and then everything in the draft is just a bonus.”



On who is the starting left tackle:

“I think it was [Stephon] Heyer today.”



On if he feels confident with the current offensive line:

“I definitely do. I think we can compete definitely with what we have. Whatever the position is, you always want to get guys who are better, but no doubt, we can compete with our team out there.”
[/QUOTE]

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

Mike Shanahan on the OL and Draft picks.....

[QUOTE]On the characteristics he’s looking for when evaluating the offensive line:

“Good offensive lineman. We’re looking for a balance. You want guys that can obviously do the job in the running game, and they have the ability to pass protect as well. These guys have been working extremely hard for the last month and I was impressed with a lot of our offensive linemen the last couple days.”





On if Denver Broncos left tackle Ryan Clady is his standard for draft offensive linemen:

“Everybody would love a Ryan Clady. They don’t happen very often. In fact I’ve been fortunate enough to be around a couple guys, Gary Zimmerman and Ryan Clady, and at the same time you win a lot of football games you don’t usually get a guy like that unless you’re very fortunate. We’re going to always try to get the best players that we could possibly get, and hopefully we can add to our football team.”



On his draft philosophy with regards to trading picks:

“I think if you look at my past, I love draft choices, so this is a little bit unusual for me going in without a third or a sixth rounder, and making the decision to acquire someone like Donovan [McNabb]. In the past I haven’t done that very many times. Every once in a while you’ll throw a draft choice here or there, which you feel gives your football team a chance to get better, but at the same time you know those draft choices are very important and I guarantee you we won’t give them away very quickly unless we think it’s the best thing for the football team.”
[/QUOTE]

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=SmootSmack;689761]What Tampa does at 3 is going to be critical. If they take Berry we're kind of screwed, but if they take McCoy and Berry is there for us at 4 there are at least a couple of teams who may be willing to talk with us to jump KC to get Berry[/quote]

I take it youre presuming that Detroit would take Suh at #2. The way I see it, their top 2 needs are OT and DT. Even if we don't intend to trade Haynesworth to Detroit, we should atleast make them think that we will, so that they take Okung at 2. In turn, that would force Tampa Bay to take Suh. ensuring that Clausen, Berry, and McCoy were all available at 4. Since we've been putting out the word that we may take a QB, teams who had singled out any of those players would be interested in trading up to get th em. It would essentially be "the perfect storm" for the Redskins to trade down, since we'd have A LOT of teams calling us to trade.

I still think if Clausen is there at 4, and we don't get a good offer to trade down, we should take him. We'd have cornered the market on QBs with Clausen, McNabb and Campbell and could then trade Clausen or McNabb to the highest bidder (probably Oakland or Buffalo) with the loser getting Campbell at a premium price.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

Hm I dont know why they dont think Oline is an issue..

I would be pretty upset if we got a QB. Not because I dont think the QBs are talented but because we have committed quite a bit to the QB position with McNabb. Would be a huge misuse of draft picks IMO to waste a first and 2 second round picks(for McNabb) on the QB position.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

I think they feel that way because they look at the guy that they replaced. He wasn't a good QB and the line played ok, not great, but ok. John Thompson asked Donovan how he could play behind this line and how he would deal with the type of pressure that #17 saw and he said that he could get the ball out quicker. Pick up on blitzes, change protections, so many things that can be done besides sitting there and blaming the O-Line later. This line isnt the Hogs, but I don't think you can know how good an O line is with a sub-par QB playing behind it. I don't think Heyer is all that good but I don't get paid to do what they do.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;689752][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/18/redskins-are-putting-out-the-word-that-theyre-taking-a-quarterback/"]Redskins are putting out the word that they're taking a quarterback | ProFootballTalk.com[/URL][/quote]

PFT.com? PFFFFT!

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

I do remember Buges strongly taking up for the Right side of the line last preseason. His quote was something like (paraphrase) "don't ask me about the right side, those guys are fine! Ask me about a left tackle if Chris goes down" He of course was right that we needed a plan in the offseason for when Chris did go down, and who knows, if Chris had stayed in longer maybe the rest of the line would gel. But it points to the fact that we need a solid LT, AND a competent backup.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

The worst kept secret in the league is: The Redskins desperately need a Left Tackle.
It certainly doesn't help your bargaining position when everyone else knows it.
ShanAllen and Co. can spin it any way they want, but they are not fooling anybody.

No team is going to buy that they will draft any position other than LT. I think there is less than a 1% chance any team gives up draft picks to make a trade with them to move into the top 5.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

How soon we all forget how srubadub our line was last year. It wasn't the scheme guys. They aren't good. Oh it may be possible to fool yourself into thinking they can be good somehow but last year they old guys looked old and the young guys looked average at best. It's always in the nature of a coach to think that he has the juice to "coach-up" a naturally talented player. Joe Bugel is perhaps one of the top 5 O-line coaches in the history of the game and he couldn't get a guy like Heyer to perform adequately. We're in trouble if they really think we can start #74 at LT and not get our QB killed. Better keep JC just in case I guess.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

I won't be surprised to see the Shanahans milk better production out of the OL this year, that said I'm 110% positive they are aware of the need to upgrade the talent at tackle, especially LT.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

If we trade Haynesworth to Detroit, we'll lose Okung for sure. They'll get their DT they were likely to pick with the #2 pick and then scoop up Okung to fill their other big need.

If we do a deal like that, we better swap the #2 and #4 picks as part of the deal so we can get Okung.

Since we have McNabb for probably 4 good years barring a career-ending injury, I don't think there's a chance we take a QB in this draft at all. Even if JC is not our backup, Kyle Shanahan is confident in Grossman and we'd still have Colt Brennan...not the best but good enough backups for McNabb. We have real needs that the #4 pick can and will solve if we don't waste it on a QB to sit behind McNabb. Top 5 picks are not used for backup QBs. I hope and believe they're targeting Okung and if the Lions take him, we'll have a good situation to trade down with a team needing Claussen or whomever is availble between Suh and McCoy (one will be there if the Lions take Okung after the Rams get Bradford). We can still take a great LT a little later and get back our 2nd we traded for McNabb, or get a 3rd.

In any case, whether we can get Okung or not, we should take a Tackle.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

Yeah taking a QB at #4 would be overkill. McNabb will probably play at least 3 more years and that means you get zero from that #4 pick until year 4 at least, huge waste.

I've got no problem going with a QB later on depending on who's available.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

I don't understand why some people continue to take what Allen, Shanahan, or anyone from the Redskins organization says publically about anything right now. The draft is 3 days away. This is the time of year when everybody lies about everything. Whether what the redskins' staff says about anything is true or not, if they say something publically and on the record, its because it suits the team's agenda.

For example, expressing public confidence in the offensive line, whether genuine or not, serves multiple purposes: 1) it makes other teams question whether we intend to focuse on the offensive line in the draft; 2) in the event the line isnt addressed signficantly, it makes the current OL guys feel good and prevents bad blood from developing; 3) if the skins are currently negotiating with any free agent LTs (Flozell Adams, for example), it gives the skins additional leverage as they can say they don't really need the player; 4) if the skins are negotiating a trade for an offensive lineman, it also increases our leverage, as we don't come off as desperate as we otherwise would; and 5) it will serve to pacify the fans if we don't draft a LT in the first round and instead go with a playmaker since we can say, "before the draft, our offensive coordinator evaluated the line in minicamp and felt it was great for our new ZBS."

Don't anything anyone in any front office says this time of year at face value.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

Watch -- Shanny will take Tebow at #4. How's that for a head-scratcher?

More like head-bang against the wall.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=Beemnseven;689952]Watch -- Shanny will take Tebow at #4. How's that for a head-scratcher?

More like head-bang against the wall.[/quote]

Then trade him to the Jags for the rights to Tony Boselli...wait, what?

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=Buster;689968]Then trade him to the Jags for the rights to Tony Boselli...wait, what?[/quote]

Tony Boselli is like the reverse Mike Williams. Rather then having to slim down he'll have to eat like 20 double-downs every day just to get back up to his playing weight.
[IMG]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08ZIh2TfRieFb/340x.jpg[/IMG]
Yes that really is Tony Boselli leaning against the wall.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;689971]Tony Boselli is like the reverse Mike Williams. Rather then having to slim down he'll have to eat like 20 double-downs every day just to get back up to his playing weight.
[IMG]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08ZIh2TfRieFb/340x.jpg[/IMG]
Yes that really is Tony Boselli leaning against the wall.[/quote]

Yeah he does triathlons now. He's down like 100Lbs. And he wasn't fat before.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

It's amazing when you see some of these big guys slimmed down after football. It's really scary when you think about all that extra weight they are carrying around for all those years. Granted a lot of it is muscle, but a lot of it is fat too.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=Mattyk;689980]It's amazing when you see some of these big guys slimmed down after football. It's really scary when you think about all that extra weight they are carrying around for all those years. Granted a lot of it is muscle, but a lot of it is fat too.[/quote]

I don't know he seems fine to me in this pic (in terms of general health), and for a guy as tall as Boselli 300+ isn't that much.
[IMG]http://www.bolles.org/files/murphyboselli1.jpg[/IMG]
However I definitely agree that the majority of NFL big men are going to have to get rid of a lot of their playing weight and try to avoid the trap that our very own BMW fell into a few years ago. I think Schlereth did a good job of slimming down post-NFL but getting to the size of a guy like Mark May post-NFL might be ideal. Boselli just seems way to skinny now if you ask me.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=hooskins;689846]Dont we also have 5 QBs on our current roster.[/quote]
Yeah how could you possibly replace Bartel and Brennan with a measly 1st QB taken in the draft? :silly:

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=SBXVII;689874]Whats perplexing is Kyle Shanahan stated in one of his interviews that he is satisfied with the OL product we have now. Said he has no problem with the OL as it is right now and believes we would be competative... as is. When asked who he would use at LT he stated Heyer was the LT today (meaning Sun.). He basically said most people think with the zone blocking scheme teams need smaller faster OL and he stated thats a fabrication. He stated they prefer big guys who are fast or can move in space relatively well.

So my question is.... is there any possible way between Buges and Zorns scheme is the reason the OL did not do so well and the new coach's have seen this and are happy with our talent?[/quote]

Yeah, most coaches just say "wow our o-line sucks we'll prob cut all of these guys!"

Of course that's what he said.. they also said Campbell was our QB and so on.. or whatever the actual quote was

Anyone who's followed football more than a year knows this, no offense meant by that.. I think that we'll get more out of some of our guys.. Rabach, etc.. and for some reason I think that Heyer will look better this year.. maybe not very good, but I'm expecting significant change in his game.. hopefully for the better and not worse

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

If there was a QB I pick on the 5th round it would be Kafka from Northwestern (great athlete with potential)

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;690037]I don't know he seems fine to me in this pic (in terms of general health), and for a guy as tall as Boselli 300+ isn't that much.
[IMG]http://www.bolles.org/files/murphyboselli1.jpg[/IMG]
However I definitely agree that the majority of NFL big men are going to have to get rid of a lot of their playing weight and try to avoid the trap that our very own BMW fell into a few years ago. I think Schlereth did a good job of slimming down post-NFL but getting to the size of a guy like Mark May post-NFL might be ideal. Boselli just seems way to skinny now if you ask me.[/quote]


At 6'7 and 322, that [I]is[/I] too much weight for your average person. Someone that height should be around 230-250 to be considered in their ideal range, which he appears to be now. That's based on the BMI index and is just a general range of course.

Re: Report: skins say they will pick a qb with the 4th pick..
 

[quote=Mattyk;690246]At 6'7 and 322, that [I]is[/I] too much weight for your average person. Someone that height should be around 230-250 to be considered in their ideal range, which he appears to be now. That's based on the BMI index and is just a general range of course.[/quote]
and a total lack of muscle