Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=mooby;766671]Whoa. Are you guys talking about Eddie Royal? When I think of diva's, I def. don't think of him, and I followed him throughout his collegiate career when he was at VT. I don't even think he's made so much as a negative comment in his time in the league so far.[/quote]

DaSean Jackson

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=SmootSmack;766673]DaSean Jackson[/quote]

Ah, go figure. I don't even think he's the headcase people make him out to be, he's just like a lot of receivers with that "I want the ball" mentality.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;766672]These people were dense then, [B]as being a head case has little bearing on success and productivity. See T.O.[/B] At the VERY WORST, he could be considered a simple special teamer who may have turned into trade bait.

And Philly sure didn't mind even though they had T.O before.[/quote]

See Devin Thomas.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=Lotus;766682]See Devin Thomas.[/quote]

A headcase is considered insane or eccentric. Devin was just stupid or more precisely, "slow to learn".

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

The draft is a crap shoot but often times a 1st / 2nd round draft picks can and should have immediate impact.
The 3rd round pick and 4th round picks are less likely to have an immediate impact although this would be a place where you can still find decent interior OL

With the 1st 3 rounds i would try to land at least 1 OL and 1 DL:
maybe take a 3-4 DE in the 1st round then take a RT and Center in the 2nd/3rd

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

Should load up with linemen period and maybe a RB or WR. Put RB over WR. I think we could sign some nice undrafted Wrs in 2011. Trade AH for more picks.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

This year's free agent class isn't all that deep when it comes to the OL, but remember the name I brought up the other day. Davin Joseph

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=30gut;766706]The draft is a crap shoot but often times a 1st / 2nd round draft picks can and should have immediate impact.
The 3rd round pick and 4th round picks are less likely to have an immediate impact although this would be a place where you can still find decent interior OL

[B]With the 1st 3 rounds i would try to land at least 1 OL and 1 DL:[/B]
[B]maybe take a 3-4 DE in the 1st round then take a RT and Center in the 2nd/3rd[/quote][/B]

Umm, I thought our draft looked like this...
1,2,5,6,7

#3 and #4 have been given away... to Philli for McNabb and N.O. for Brown. When did we pick up another 3rd?

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

I like the idea of drafting Lineman, but I am kinda liking the blend we have right now. I know they'eve given up alot of pressure and sacks the past few games, but alot of it I think has to do with Rabach, and the way he gives up so much pressure up the middle.

I would really like to see us Build the defense in the draft. Get a MONSTER at NT, and another ILB/OLB... Even a FS.

I think the defense has ALOT more holes then the offense at the moment. If we are going to a 3/4 then we really need to focus on the defense first. You can't win close games without a good defense. Redskins play alot of close games.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;766582]Jay Ratliff was a 7th rounder.[/quote]

Yeah, but he is a penetrator. Garay was a journeyman before San Diego salvaged him. Aubrayo Franklin seemed to have panned out from the start. While it's great if we do land a stud NT in the late rounds, other measures need to be taken to make sure the position is filled because for every stud, there's a lot more scurbs floating around. Late round picks in general are a crapshoot, and even moreso for a hard-to-find position in growing demand.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=SmootSmack;766723]This year's free agent class isn't all that deep when it comes to the OL, but remember the name I brought up the other day. Davin Joseph[/quote]

I like Joseph from what Ive read, some sites have him as one of the best guards available in the offseason. I think it would be a good move...I guess but getting another guy with injury issues (Brown) on the oline makes me hesitant. I guess a broken foot is better than a knee injury or hip injury in Brown case.

SmootSmack, 2 questions for you....Have you heard anything about Brown being here next year and being Right Tackle of the future? And have you heard anything about upgrading the Center position?

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

Hasn't Brown been hurt most of the year, rather than simply a disappointment? For that matter, hasn't that been the case with McNabb too?

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=hooskins;766781]Hasn't Brown been hurt most of the year, rather than simply a disappointment? For that matter, hasn't that been the case with McNabb too?[/quote]

Fair or not hurt and disappointing kinda go hand in hand.

I have been surprised at how much DM has struggled in picking up things. He's looked better in recent weeks but still, I didn't expect him to struggle this much.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=Chico23231;766779]I like Joseph from what Ive read, some sites have him as one of the best guards available in the offseason. I think it would be a good move...I guess but getting another guy with injury issues (Brown) on the oline makes me hesitant. I guess a broken foot is better than a knee injury or hip injury in Brown case.

SmootSmack, 2 questions for you....Have you heard anything about Brown being here next year and being Right Tackle of the future? And have you heard anything about upgrading the Center position?[/quote]

Sometimes I'll mention names just based on pure speculation or based on what I'd like to see. Other times it's because I've heard rumors floated about...Davin Joseph is one of the latter times. Not to say he's coming here, but it looks like a very strong possibility

We are working on a long term deal with Brown

Haven't heard about Center

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=skinsfan69;766456]This team needs 3 full years of solid drafting.[/quote]

Yes, too many holes to fill in one or two years. It's going to take 3 full seasons + of good wise drafts and FA.

Yes, I would say if things match up well, if there's a offensive lineman available in the 1st we should take him. Or, if the best center - don't know who that is- is available at 2 we should take him.

MS knows, hell everyone knows our oline is horrible.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=SBXVII;766732][/B]

Umm, I thought our draft looked like this...
1,2,5,6,7

#3 and #4 have been given away... to Philli for McNabb and N.O. for Brown. When did we pick up another 3rd?[/quote]

Correct me if I'm wrong but currently I think we have:
1 - 2 - 5 - 2/6th - 2/7th

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=SmootSmack;766793]Sometimes I'll mention names just based on pure speculation or based on what I'd like to see. Other times it's because I've heard rumors floated about...Davin Joseph is one of the latter times. Not to say he's coming here, but it looks like a very strong possibility

We are working on a long term deal with Brown

Haven't heard about Center[/quote]

Cool thanks...yeah I seen you mention him a couple times, figured it was that latter, which is cool he seems like a solid player and its nice to see the FO get a plan together for the Oline. Hopefully center can be changed as well. I dont see Rabauch as a Shanny type, and overall he played poor again this year. I thought maybe scheme change could improve his play, havent seen it.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

Doubt Rabach will be back. With the way they structured his deal it's obvious they weren't committing to him beyond this year. Just a band-aid move to get us to 2011.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=Mattyk;766801]Doubt Rabach will be back. With the way they structured his deal it's obvious they weren't committing to him beyond this year. Just a band-aid move to get us to 2011.[/quote]

I hope so...anyone know of any good centers gonna be available as FO or in the draft?

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=SmootSmack;766793]Sometimes I'll mention names just based on pure speculation or based on what I'd like to see. Other times it's because I've heard rumors floated about...Davin Joseph is one of the latter times. Not to say he's coming here, but it looks like a very strong possibility

We are working on a long term deal with Brown

Haven't heard about Center[/quote]

Thanks. Yes, a FA + an early draft pick would do alot for the oline.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

Top rated olineman, didn't see a center in there.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81928d97/article/costanzo-leads-crop-of-athletic-olinemen-entering-2011-draft]NFL.com news: Costanzo leads crop of athletic O-linemen entering 2011 draft[/url]

3. Stefan Wisniewski, G

College: Penn State
Height/Weight: 6-3, 295

Wisniewski was the first true freshman to start at right guard since 1999 for the Nittany Lions. He started 12 games at guard in 2008 and played center in 2009, earning first team all Big-Ten honors. Wisniewski comes from a long line of professionall football players. His father, Leo, was a second-round draft choice of the Baltimore Colts and his uncle, Steve, was drafted by the Cowboys and traded to the Raiders, where he played for 13 years. Wisniewski's strength and quickness should help him to play well for many years in the NFL.

Strength/quickness? Sounds like a MS type of guy.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=SmootSmack;766673]DaSean Jackson[/quote]

When I think of DeSean Jackson, I think of:

[IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/20igt2c.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/2myrvko.gif[/IMG]


He's turning into the modern-day Leon Lett. Has skill, but is missing a lot upstairs.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

We only have 2 picks of players that we can expect to start for us in the future considering we traded our 3rd and 4th.

I think It would be a mistake to not draft a QB in the 1st, but if that is not available then OL would be a good place to go next. IMO our DL is actually looking worse than our OL next year, but I would by no means complain if we address the o-line. The reason being that we will need to draft a QB of the future very soon considering McNabb's age. I want that QB to have a solid group of guys he can be protected by in his first couple of years he takes the field. I think that a young qb protected by a poor o-line could potentially ruin him. I don't know this for a fact because who is to say that the young qbs that had poor o-lines weren't just terrible from the start, but I think it is a possibility I would feel alot better if our future young qb was well protected.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

Also wanted to say that there are no o-linemen worth taking where we are picking in the 1st of this upcoming draft. It would be good if we were able to pull a bellicheck and keep trading down to the low 1st, high second to pick a guard or center. We could accumulate enough picks to combine and trade to move up to the high 3rd and pick another guard/center. We could get 3 interior linemen in the first 70 picks.

Lastly wanted to say that there is zero percent chance this will happen. Shanny doesn't draft interior linemen high ever (he's not drafting a tackle because of williams and he traded for brown....who has sucked but Shanny keeps saying will be better next year when he is more healthy and adapts to the right side better). This year I wouldn't be shocked if he chose one in the first 2 rounds, but for him to pick multiple interior linemen high in the same draft is an impossibility in my mind. But a guy can dream, can't he?

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;766712]Should load up with linemen period and maybe a RB or WR. Put RB over WR. I think we could sign some nice undrafted Wrs in 2011. Trade AH for more picks.[/quote]

With Fat Al getting the bench for the last 4 games are the Skins planning on just cutting him or still trying to salvage a trade in the off season? I can't imagine anyone would give anything for him. Anyone hear anything about it?:benched:

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=SkinzWin;766860]With Fat Al getting the bench for the last 4 games are the Skins planning on just cutting him or still trying to salvage a trade in the off season? I can't imagine anyone would give anything for him. Anyone hear anything about it?:benched:[/quote]
If we were going to cut him, we would have done it already. I'm sure someone will give up at least 6th for him. He is too talented for nobody to take a chance on him. Plus, they wouldn't have to pay him any guaranteed money.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=SBXVII;766732][/B]Umm, I thought our draft looked like this...
1,2,5,6,7
#3 and #4 have been given away... to Philli for McNabb and N.O. for Brown. When did we pick up another 3rd?[/quote]

No, you're right i forgot about those.

Then in that case i would look to trade down but if we can't

1st round BPA DL or OL or LOLB

2nd round BPA opposite position side of the ball as 1st round pick

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=skinster;766862]If we were going to cut him, we would have done it already. I'm sure someone will give up at least 6th for him. He is too talented for nobody to take a chance on him. Plus, they wouldn't have to pay him any guaranteed money.[/quote]

Actually, nobody will probably trade for him because they know we are going to cut him. There's no chance Haynesworth is on the roster next season. Why would you give up a draft pick for somebody who you know will be a free agent? That's why we will probably see Haynesworth cut.

And I wouldn't be too suprised if the Redskins upgraded their line through the 2nd round of the draft/free agency, and spent our first rounder on our qb of the future. This draft is going to have plenty of good quarterbacks available in it and I wouldn't be suprised to see the Redskins nab one if he's available.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

Turning this offensive line into a good one shouldn't be too difficult, as we've already done most of the painful part of rebuilding the line. A decision must be made on Jammal Brown. I think he's a good scheme fit, but not a particularly great player. There was a play on Sunday where the Redskins had the pass protection perfectly set up for McNabb to convert a third and long, and Brown had Tuck engaged and practically neutralized, only for Tuck to rip and overpower him and wind up on McNabb. That cannot happen.

If we don't re-sign Brown, we're going to need to use one of the top two picks (probably the second) on an OT. If we do re-sign Brown and admit that we're not looking to build a great line but rather a competent one, then we're already really close to rebuilt: cut Dockery, cut Rabach, cut Hicks. Then you have a starting line of [Trent Williams-Kory Lichtensteiger-Will Montgomery-Not on Roster-Jammal Brown]. That RG can either be a free agent (such as Davin Joseph), or a high draft choice, but it's the big hole on the line next season. If we DON'T resign Brown, we're two holes away.

For whatever reason, we kept a lot of dead weight on our roster this year. Hopefully guys like Capers and Cook are ready to be the depth we need to take over the roster spots of Rabach and Dockery and Hicks.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

Maybe I will ask both Sndyer to sell his team and Goodell to count the team as an expansion team moving to DC and we get to pick players off other teams and start to build like the Texans did.

*Yes, build the trenches and undo Cerrato Industries Sand developments.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=mooby;766885]Actually, nobody will probably trade for him because they know we are going to cut him. There's no chance Haynesworth is on the roster next season. Why would you give up a draft pick for somebody who you know will be a free agent? That's why we will probably see Haynesworth cut.

And I wouldn't be too suprised if the Redskins upgraded their line through the 2nd round of the draft/free agency, and spent our first rounder on our qb of the future. This draft is going to have plenty of good quarterbacks available in it and I wouldn't be suprised to see the Redskins nab one if he's available.[/quote]

People will trade for him because they want to obtain his rights. In FA he gets to go wherever he wants. When we own his rights and two teams want him, one will be willing to give out a late round pick to make sure they get his rights.
Also we can hold onto him for as long as we want. He wont show up to the team facilities. If a team wants him for training camp, they will trade for him.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=skinster;766909]People will trade for him because they want to obtain his rights. In FA he gets to go wherever he wants. When we own his rights and two teams want him, one will be willing to give out a late round pick to make sure they get his rights.
Also we can hold onto him for as long as we want. He wont show up to the team facilities. If a team wants him for training camp, they will trade for him.[/quote]

Or people will wait until he's a free agent so all they have to do is give him a contract, not absorb his huge ass contract while giving up draft picks in the process. In order to trade a player he has to have value. Haynesworth has destroyed his own value this season. Wherever he goes, he's going to have to prove himself again, and I don't think a team will want him bad enough to give up a good draft pick for him.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=mooby;766942]Or people will wait until he's a free agent so all they have to do is give him a contract, not absorb his huge ass contract while giving up draft picks in the process. In order to trade a player he has to have value. Haynesworth has destroyed his own value this season. Wherever he goes, he's going to have to prove himself again, and I don't think a team will want him bad enough to give up a good draft pick for him.[/quote]

The moment he is traded, the team that gets him owes him zero dollars in guaranteed money. His contract will not be that big anymore. And you completely ignored what I said about the reason why a team would trade for him. They would do it so that they could guarantee that they have his rights. If he hits free agency lets say 4 teams show any interest; each team only has a .25 chance at landing him as opposed to the 100% they would have at landing him if they trade a late round pick for him. His potential to take over games is something teams salivate over (look to the bears game), and there has to be multiple teams out there that are willing to roll the dice on him. My point cant be invalid considering that he is not cut yet, so at least Shanny agrees with me.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

IMO it's better to draft the best player on the board at the time you pick. I liked the approach that Dennis Green took when he was rebuilding the Cardinals. He took the best players available, eventhough he wasn't around to see the fruits of his labor, the team he built eventually made it to the Superbowl.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

As long as we get a CENTER I WILL BE ECSTATIC!...rabach is probably a knowledgeable player, BUT he just gets shown up every game! we need someone with talent and knowledge at the position

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=IRISHSKIN24;766988]As long as we get a CENTER I WILL BE ECSTATIC!...rabach is probably a knowledgeable player, BUT he just gets shown up every game! we need someone with talent and knowledge at the position[/quote]

Both Montgomery and Lichtensteiger are natural centers playing guard. From that, I think it's clear that [B]guard[/B] is our [B]biggest o-line[/B] problem.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=SmootSmack;766603]I don't believe we should just draft OL? For what? To say we drafted offensive linemen? That seems pretty counterproductive to me.[/quote]

we have never done this...so why not?? We have ALWAYS drafted the BPA....look at where THAT has gotten us......new coach...new draftng philosophy. Every good team wins in the trenches late in the season. As fans, we have to stop thinking skill players are the foundation.....do yall remember the HOGS????

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=Texanskin;766994]we have never done this...so why not?? We have ALWAYS drafted the BPA....look at where THAT has gotten us......new coach...new draftng philosophy. Every good team wins in the trenches late in the season. As fans, we have to stop thinking skill players are the foundation.....do yall remember the HOGS????[/quote]
No, we drafted with a strange emphasis on skill positions and late-round LBs and safeties. We also drafted for "need" because "big #1 WR" was a need then. Remember that James ****ing Thrash was our #3 behind the terribly overpaid ARE.

Also, we didn't spend 4 1st and 2nd rounders on the hogs. Some of them came through UDFA, but I suppose it was an era where scouting the really late rounds was considered "not worth it", so talent was more likely to fall then.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

No, drafting all OL would not be practical. I want to turn this subject around. I think should only draft defense. Here is why.

The tackle position is set with Williams and Brown. Lets say Davin Joseph is signed.
Mike Williams returns to try and win back his spot at guard vs Hicks and Heyer. Lichtensteiger and Montgomery battle it out for Center.

At WR, Jacoby Jones is a FA in Houston and he should know the offense system. He would be an upgrade in size, also adding an extra return man for kickoffs. He is not having a great year in Houston, (but a better year than Joey Galloway + Roydell Williams is having) so he could come cheap. Also Kelly is a wild card. If there is no big name WR signed, it is safe to say the coaches have faith in him.

RB has been an issue this year mainly due to injuries. I think it is Torain's job to lose, Portis takes a pay cut and returns, along with the addition a Shanahan diamond in the rough.

TE and QB are set. Maybe a project QB is drafted, but that is currently Jon Beck's role.

So this brings us back to the draft. BPA at any position of DE, CB, LB, DT, & FS. Trading down should be utilized if grades are similar.

Then again, it will most likely be a mix of free agents and draft to fix the both sides of the ball. Some notable 3-4 FAs on D are:
DT: Haloti Ngata in Baltimore, Cullen Jenkins and Johnny Jolly in Green Bay.
LB: Tamba Hali - KC, Lamarr Woodley - Pittsburgh, Desmond Bishop - GB, David Harris- NYJ.

Re: Would it be practical to just (mostly) draft o-line this upcoming year
 

[quote=drew54;767367]No, drafting all OL would not be practical. I want to turn this subject around. I think should only draft defense. Here is why.

The tackle position is set with Williams and Brown. Lets say Davin Joseph is signed.
Mike Williams returns to try and win back his spot at guard vs Hicks and Heyer. Lichtensteiger and Montgomery battle it out for Center.

At WR, Jacoby Jones is a FA in Houston and he should know the offense system. He would be an upgrade in size, also adding an extra return man for kickoffs. He is not having a great year in Houston, (but a better year than Joey Galloway + Roydell Williams is having) so he could come cheap. Also Kelly is a wild card. If there is no big name WR signed, it is safe to say the coaches have faith in him.

RB has been an issue this year mainly due to injuries. I think Portis takes a pay cut and returns, along with the addition a Shanahan diamond in the rough.

TE and QB are set. Maybe a project QB is drafted, but that is currently Jon Beck's role.

So this brings us back to the draft. BPA at any position of DE, CB, LB, DT, & FS. Trading down should be utilized if grades are similar.

Then again, it will most likely be a mix of free agents and draft to fix the both sides of the ball. Some notable 3-4 FAs on D are:
DT: Haloti Ngata in Baltimore, Cullen Jenkins and Johnny Jolly in Green Bay.
LB: Tamba Hali - KC, Lamarr Woodley - Pittsburgh, Desmond Bishop - GB, David Harris- NYJ.[/quote]

Good points. I would add that by season's end RB may not be determined by the staff as a high priority. I'm sure they would like to add a feature back, but this could turn out to be a decent 4 rb rotation; Torain & Davis as primary runners, CP & KW as 3rd down.