Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;911698]I don't mind a guy who isn't going to get a ton of ints, but can shut down his man. I just want Hall to shut his mouth and be consistent.[/quote]Amen. Just prove you can do your assignment.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Skins4L;911676][url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/DeAngelo-Hall-vs-Megatron-Result-Interception?urn=nfl-281337]DeAngelo Hall vs. Megatron. Result? Interception! - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports[/url][/quote]

[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/887439/Screen_Shot_2012-01-19_at_6.12.04_PM.png[/IMG]

I can do this all day long.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

I don't get why Hall gets SO much focus. He's not our top defensive player and not our worst. I remember after that 4 int game there were those on here criticizing him chalking it all up to luck. Ah well.

For me it's Helu. I've called him a change of pace back and said he lacks the vision to find holes and cutback lanes like a top back. I think he's good but short of great. I'd love for him to be great because that would make our offense dynamic.

If I had to pick on defense, I'd probably go with Barnes. I think he'll be lucky to make it out of camp, he showed me nothing at all last year. Another wasted Cerrato pick.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Paintrain;911711]I don't get why Hall gets SO much focus. [B]He's not our top defensive player and not our worst.[/B] I remember after that 4 int game there were those on here criticizing him chalking it all up to luck. Ah well.

For me it's Helu. I've called him a change of pace back and said he lacks the vision to find holes and cutback lanes like a top back. I think he's good but short of great. I'd love for him to be great because that would make our offense dynamic.

If I had to pick on defense, I'd probably go with Barnes. I think he'll be lucky to make it out of camp, he showed me nothing at all last year. Another wasted Cerrato pick.[/quote]

Problem is, he is the #1 CB. If he was the nickle or dime back, I doubt people would be complaining. Or maybe they would be, but I wouldn't. I think Hall would actually be a quite good nickle back.

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;911712]Problem is, he is the #1 CB. If he was the nickle or dime back, I doubt people would be complaining. Or maybe they would be, but I wouldn't. I think Hall would actually be a quite good nickle back.[/QUOTE]

Problem is that people dont like him, on top of his annoying inconsistencies. And the coaching staff refuse to admit that he is not a no. 1 CB.

Our secondary is terrible and I really dont expect much out of them. Our secondary was pretty terrible even when Rogers was here. I just hope that our offense and pass rush is good enough to compensate for this weakness.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 using Taptalk 2

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=NC_Skins;911701][IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/887439/Screen_Shot_2012-01-19_at_6.12.04_PM.png[/IMG]

[B]I can do this all day long[/B].[/quote]

Lets see what you got :D

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=htownskinfan;911665]In no particular order
1.Mike Shanahan
2.Kyle
3.[B]Rex G[/B]
4.G. Gano[/quote]

LMAO work that clipboard son...be perfect!

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[quote=The Goat;911733]LMAO work that clipboard son...be perfect![/quote]

Beck sucked as a clipboard holder. His grip was all wrong. Wrecks, on the other hand, has an excellent grip - solid hold without wrinkling pages. Unleash the clipboard dragon!

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Lotus;911734]Beck sucked as a clipboard holder. His grip was all wrong. Wrecks, on the other hand, has an excellent grip - solid hold without wrinkling pages. Unleash the clipboard dragon![/quote]

My only criticism of Rex is that his hands are so small (spying) cameras can basically see everything on the page...

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

If Hall's not our worst defensive player, who is?

It would have to be someone who has yet to develop like Barnes, or someone we just acquired, like Meriweather. Otherwise, who on the defense is in the same league as Hall in terms of negative defensive value?

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=GTripp0012;911743]If Hall's not our worst defensive player, who is?

It would have to be someone who has yet to develop like Barnes, or someone we just acquired, like Meriweather. Otherwise, who on the defense is in the same league as Hall in terms of negative defensive value?[/quote]

Well at varying points last year it would have been anyone who lined up at safety ( Doughty, Gomes, Atogwe) or McIntosh when he was in the game. Now, the same could be said for any of our projected safeties, any of our nickel corners.. Hall is an average cover corner with playmaking skills. He's not elite nor is he hot garbage.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;911712]Problem is, he is the #1 CB. If he was the nickle or dime back, I doubt people would be complaining. Or maybe they would be, but I wouldn't. I think Hall would actually be a quite good nickle back.[/quote]

They probably would complain. The people who bash D Hall actually believe that he is worst than our 2nd, 3rd and 4th DB's because they only remember the plays where he gets beat. Nobody says anything about the plays that he covers his man - they only speak about when he gets beat. This is the nature of playing CB.

I agree, the problem is that he is our #1 CB. I personally have D Hall being better than a nickel back tho - I have him being a starter - a 2nd corner who is asked to be a #1 CB. If we let our backup DB's cover the #1 receiver each week then the D Hall bashers would see that he is actually our best option right now. They just see D Hall getting beat and then say "he sucks". lol He is not worst than our 3rd and 4th DB's and we have no other options. I could understand bashing him if we had better options but we don't. These people that say get rid of D Hall crack me up.

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[quote=Skins4L;911674]I really dont think DHall should even be mentioned. Theres many teams with a lesser #1 CB and if were crying over DHall or nebody who is for that matter lost all touch with the game to me. Maybe DHall will be a liability in a couple years with ageing but not NOW. Hes not Champ Bailey we know that... hes not perfect either we know that too but DHall is consistent enough TO ME to not be mentioned on a shut me up thread because hes had some nice performances for us and i cant think of one game he was the reason we lost besides the ONE PLAY Dez got free for ONE CATCH after DHall had shut him down all game. And if u ask me it was our offense to blame that game.[/quote]

I agree. But that cover 0 that Haslett called without safety help over the top is just plain stupid. One play play beats you on 3rd and 17 (or whatever it was) and to not have safety help is CRAZY to me.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Paintrain;911749]Well at varying points last year it would have been anyone who lined up at safety ( Doughty, Gomes, Atogwe) or McIntosh when he was in the game. Now, the same could be said for any of our projected safeties, any of our nickel corners.. Hall is an average cover corner with playmaking skills. He's not elite nor is he hot garbage.[/quote]At times, he's in fact not hot garbage, and even makes consecutive plays. But the season is too long, and he gets exposed every year.

I don't think its conclusive that Doughty plays defense worse than Hall does, but it's been a pretty fierce incompetence battle over the last two seasons.

[QUOTE=imaskin4life;911757]I agree. But that cover 0 that Haslett called without safety help over the top is just plain stupid. One play play beats you on 3rd and 17 (or whatever it was) and to not have safety help is CRAZY to me.[/QUOTE]

And this is the reason why our secondary will continue to suck unless our pass rush gets much better or our defensive coaches realize that we dont have the CBs to pull this off.

I do think that an improved offense will help a lot, and hopefully they wont always put the defense in situations where they have to keep a small lead.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 using Taptalk 2

I might get killed for this be Fletcher. I'm worried that when he starts to go downhill it's going to happen like a porn star hooked on meth.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=NC_Skins;911701][IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/887439/Screen_Shot_2012-01-19_at_6.12.04_PM.png[/IMG]

I can do this all day long.[/quote]

who's that fitz? Fitz has ridiculous release of the line of scrimmage. Bet u can find a photo of him smoking who'd ud say was an elite CB too.

c'mon man.. We could get alot worse at CB.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Skins4L;911772]who's that fitz? Fitz has ridiculous release of the line of scrimmage. Bet u can find a photo of him smoking who'd ud say was an elite CB too.

c'mon man.. We could get alot worse at CB.[/quote]


We could do a lot worse for a lot less, we could do a lot more with the same, or what a smart team does is get what you paid for and that's not the case of DHall. It was D Halls salary that made the team have to keep him while 'Los walked out the door and became a pro bowler. That's like ordering caviar on an emPty stomach and the bill shows up and your still hungry and probably in need of a toilet.
Haslett screwed the pooch making DHall on an island. I think Hall can only run in 1 direction, forward. He's like Zoolander who can't turn left, he's not an ambi-runner.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=NC_Skins;911701]I can do this all day long.[/quote]

Our secondary has a history of getting burned...

[IMG]http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/public/sites/624/assets/rgbeagles.jpg[/IMG]
Rogers getting burned by D. Jackson

[IMG]http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/wpvi/cms_exf_2007/news/sports/111510eagles1.jpg[/IMG]
Landry getting toasted by D. Jackson

If people would get off D. Hall for a second, they'd realize that our entire secondary has been subpar since the days of Sean Taylor and Shawn Springs. Hall is not going to become Revis or Nnamdi (in his Oakland days) to carry a subpar secondary, and the previous DBs coach continued to play Hall like he's a #1 shutdown corner.

As I said before, I hope that either R. Morris does something with this group, or that other parts of the team can compensate for this weakness. I don't think many QBs are going to be afraid of Hall, Wilson, T. Jackson and Merriweather.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

Reed Doughty. I appreciate that he's a hard worker and earned his spot, but he has no business starting in the NFL, in my opinion. To me, he's a lot like Lorenzo Alexander: hard worker, the type of guy you want around your team, can fire people up, but I don't really ever want to see either of them get a start. Not because I don't like them, because they're not that good at playing professional football.

To me, they're both special teamers who deserve to be on the team, but shouldn't start a game. Ever.

I hope one or both of them prove to be better than that.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

I'm guessing typing Matty would be a bad idea...he has the power!



As for Skins players, I'll have to think of which current player I criticize the most. I think that would be Reed Doughty. There's no Landry or Atogwe on the roster any more. We aren't guaranteed 16 games from Tanard Jackson and Griffin/Merriweather might be worse at coverage than you. Time to step up, son. You may be on the field more than we like.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

Well, D Hall finally had the horrible Redskin year, last year, everyone was hoping for. Reverted back to his raiders years. The prior couple years his play was just fine and actually excellent at times as a 2nd CB, with Carlos taking the tougher assignments and excelling at the 1 spot. Looks like we finally found out D Hall is not a #1 CB, for all the people who somehow thought he was a 1...

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

I understand the comments about Hall, he is a gambler and takes risk, BUT im really scared about safety still that needs to be our main concern, i think tanard jackson will start at free and strong??? merriweather? gomes? i dont have much confidence in either, i wouldnt mind using our 3rd on a safety that slips to us.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Chico23231;911812] The prior couple years his play was just fine [/quote]

Edit: The below is in no indication of me thinking that D. Hall was our only problem the past few years. Far from it.

You do realize that his "pro-bowl" year, he ranked 2nd worst CB in the league statistically? He had one great game with Chicago, and returned a fumble in the Dallas game, yet everybody forgets he was torched most of that season as well.

People see what they want to see.

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/3/18/2058628/dhall-2nd-worst-corner-in-the-league]Football Outsiders: DeAngelo Hall,Second Worst CB in Success Rate - Hogs Haven[/url]


[url=http://footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2010]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Worst Cornerback Charting Stats 2010[/url]

[url=http://footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2011]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Worst Cornerback Charting Stats 2011[/url]

This guy has been horrible since his last couple years in Atlanta. He started off his career hot with INTs because he jumped routes, padded those numbers and has been fooling fans ever since...lol Mind boggling.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

Yeah when I watched that team a couple years ago...I kept saying to myself D Hall obviously is the problem. Not Haynesworth, not our Running Back play, our entire D Line, and QB play...it was D Hall, the worst CB in the league. Look back to that season, sadly I think our CB was a strongest position in terms of play.

But dont watch the games, just go by the stats. Dont watch the games to see the defense on the field 60-70% of the time...eye test dont mean shit. Like Ive said before, what I see with my own eyes during the game will give you more clues than the stat sheet later.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Chico23231;911839]Yeah when I watched that team a couple years ago...I kept saying to myself D Hall obviously is the problem. Not Haynesworth, not our Running Back play, our entire D Line, and QB play...it was D Hall, the worst CB in the league. Look back to that season, sadly I think our CB was a strongest position in terms of play.

But dont watch the games, just go by the stats. Dont watch the games to see the defense on the field 60-70% of the time...eye test dont mean shit. Like Ive said before, what I see with my own eyes during the game will give you more clues than the stat sheet later.[/quote]

I just don't get Redskins fans obsession with pinning everything that is wrong on one player or just going out their way to show how terrible one player is and acting like everything else is fine and dandy.

I also don't get fans who think Hall is a #1 corner and keep riding his Pro Bowl season. He's not that good period, and the fact that he may be the best corner on the team is proof that our secondary sucks.

I don't agree though that our CB play was that strong last year. Basically what happened in the big secondary gaffes is that we were asking a supbar secondary to hold on to small leads that our terrible offense couldn't hold by not scoring more points or giving the opposing offense a chance to gain the lead.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Chico23231;911839]Yeah when I watched that team a couple years ago...I kept saying to myself D Hall obviously is the problem. Not Haynesworth, not our Running Back play, our entire D Line, and QB play...it was D Hall, the worst CB in the league. Look back to that season, sadly I think our CB was a strongest position in terms of play.

But dont watch the games, just go by the stats. Dont watch the games to see the defense on the field 60-70% of the time...eye test dont mean shit. Like Ive said before, what I see with my own eyes during the game will give you more clues than the stat sheet later.[/quote]

Don't get me wrong. He wasn't the only problem with this team. There aren't enough fingers on both of my hands to point at what was wrong with the team. Yes, I did watch the games and the "eye test" doesn't mean shit really. Why? Because you aren't focusing on one player the whole time. That's why coaches have so much film time so they can break down a players game. No, you can't always use numbers to base a point on, but these numbers (on D Hall) have been consistently bad over most of his career in the NFL.

Don't want to break this down into a D.Hall haterade fest, but I'm just correcting this notion that he's good or our best CB. He's not. Is he better than anything out there right now on the market? Most likely yes. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a June 1st cut though due to his salary.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=GTripp0012;911765]At times, he's in fact not hot garbage, and even makes consecutive plays. But the season is too long, and he gets exposed every year.

I don't think its conclusive that Doughty plays defense worse than Hall does, but it's been a pretty fierce incompetence battle over the last two seasons.[/quote]
There's something to say about a guy who is always near the tackle but never part of it.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Ruhskins;911842]I just don't get Redskins fans obsession with pinning everything that is wrong on one player or just going out their way to show how terrible one player is and acting like everything else is fine and dandy. [/quote]

For the record, I don't bring out the stats and other data unless people start talking about how he's our best CB and our best defensive player. I'm simply correcting those fallacies.

I do not believe(and never will) that D. Hall is the sole reason why we were shitty the past few years. Too many fingers and toes to count. He's just one of the many bad cogs in a broken wheel.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Ruhskins;911842]I just don't get Redskins fans obsession with pinning everything that is wrong on one player or just going out their way to show how terrible one player is and acting like everything else is fine and dandy.

I also don't get fans who think Hall is a #1 corner and keep riding his Pro Bowl season. He's not that good period, and the fact that he may be the best corner on the team is proof that our secondary sucks.

[B]I don't agree though that our CB play was that strong last year[/B]. Basically what happened in the big secondary gaffes is that we were asking a supbar secondary to hold on to small leads that our terrible offense couldn't hold by not scoring more points or giving the opposing offense a chance to gain the lead.[/quote]

I was referencing 2010 season. no last year's CB play was terrible...safety play was much worse though... Part of the reason CB play was bad was D Hall play, he cant cover the other team's best WR period. There is no disputing that. I hate to bring him up again, Carlos absence was significantly felt last year. But we hate him too, so movin on

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

So back to thread topic (what a freaking idea, no?)

I think the o-line has a lot to prove this season, so I would like to see them do a good job. Although with a better QB, that may be possible.

I would also like to see our pass rush to take the next step from being just "good" to great.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Monkeydad;911810]I'm guessing typing Matty would be a bad idea...he has the power!



As for Skins players, I'll have to think of which current player I criticize the most. I think that would be Reed Doughty. There's no Landry or Atogwe on the roster any more. We aren't guaranteed 16 games from Tanard Jackson and Griffin/Merriweather might be worse at coverage than you. Time to step up, son. You may be on the field more than we like.[/quote]

Are you serious? Reed is what he is. He's never going to be a good safety in coverage cause he's just not capable. He plays hard, tackles well but that's about all he can do.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=skinsfan69;911885]Are you serious? Reed is what he is. He's never going to be a good safety in coverage cause he's just not capable. He plays hard, tackles well but that's about all he can do.[/quote]

Yeah, I always wondered why people get so mad at a backup for not performing like a all-pro. He's a backup for a reason...lol

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Ruhskins;911856]So back to thread topic (what a freaking idea, no?)

I think the o-line has a lot to prove this season, so I would like to see them do a good job. Although with a better QB, that may be possible.

I would also like to see our pass rush to take the next step from being just "good" to great.[/quote]

Good point on the pass rush.. This is a key year for Rak IMO. I'd love to see him develop some counter moves, something other than either just speed or power. He gets held a lot but he also puts himself in position to be pushed away from the QB a lot as well. Kerrigan seemed to do a great job of shedding blockers and making the it, Rak hasn't shown that consistently. I hope Jenkins brings some pass rushing as well.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Paintrain;911894]Good point on the pass rush.. This is a key year for Rak IMO. I'd love to see him develop some counter moves, something other than either just speed or power. He gets held a lot but he also puts himself in position to be pushed away from the QB a lot as well. Kerrigan seemed to do a great job of shedding blockers and making the it, Rak hasn't shown that consistently. I hope Jenkins brings some pass rushing as well.[/quote]

I wanna say that I'd like to see Cofield do a better job at collapsing the pocket, but I really have not sense of how he did in this aspect last season. A rotation of Bowen, Carriker, and Jenkins should be fun to watch. Bowen and Carriker had 11.5 sacks combine, and I think Jenkins should add to this.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=NC_Skins;911888]Yeah, I always wondered why people get so mad at a backup for not performing like a all-pro. He's a backup for a reason...lol[/quote]

Problem is...he hasn't been playing the backup role, he's been starting and may again this year.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

Fans at the stadium....tired of tuning into a games and half the seats filled with opposition team fans

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Chico23231;911839]Yeah when I watched that team a couple years ago...I kept saying to myself D Hall obviously is the problem. Not Haynesworth, not our Running Back play, our entire D Line, and QB play...it was D Hall, the worst CB in the league. Look back to that season, sadly I think our CB was a strongest position in terms of play.

But dont watch the games, just go by the stats. Dont watch the games to see the defense on the field 60-70% of the time...eye test dont mean shit. Like Ive said before, what I see with my own eyes during the game will give you more clues than the stat sheet later.[/quote]What about when the length of time that the Redskins have been a horrific defense against the pass just happens to coincide with the time that DeAngelo Hall has been in the starting lineup.

Reed Doughty, LaRon Landry, Carlos Rogers were all here back in 2007 and the first stretch of games in 2008 when the Redskins were pretty shutdown against the pass. And the new guys like Gomes, Wilson, even Philip Buchanon to an extent contributed positively and weren't there for the darkest days.

So when you talk about players who were here for the worst sequence of pass defense in the recent history of the franchise, it overlaps primarily the careers of two players in our secondary: DeAngelo Hall, and Byron Westbrook.

Luckily, we fixed the problem this offseason. We got rid of Westbrook and brought back Leigh Torrence, whose career here mostly overlapped the good defensive years. Super Bowl, here we come!

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

It's gotta be D. Hall. If you get burned 3 plays in a row, and then you bat a ball down.....shut the F@ck up. Good job, but maybe you should have done that the first 3 times.

Re: I Want ----- To Shut Me Up In 2012
 

[quote=Chico23231;911905]Fans at the stadium....tired of tuning into a games and half the seats filled with opposition team fans[/quote]

Interesting. That's a pretty good one