Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Well if we can't get Kuper than lets get Chester Pitts from Houston, he's 31 and knows Shannys offense (Kyles) as well as Kubiaks which is pretty much shanny's offense.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;664752]Well if we can't get Kuper than lets get Chester Pitts from Houston, he's 31 and knows Shannys offense (Kyles) as well as Kubiaks which is pretty much shanny's offense.[/quote]

Ok, then, what do you do at LT and RT? Someone capable is going to need to protect your boy Bradford's blindside, otherwise he'll be seeing Dr. Andrews again.

I must say, I like Pitts. Haven't heard anything about the Texans trying to keep him.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Ruhskins;664754]Ok, then, what do you do at LT and RT? Someone capable is going to need to protect your boy Bradford's blindside, otherwise he'll be seeing Dr. Andrews again.

I must say, I like Pitts. Haven't heard anything about the Texans trying to keep him.[/quote]

It's possible that the Texans will franchise him.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Given Shanny's past, maybe we'll trade for Cleveland's entire OL. Problem solved. :)

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

I think the very best lineman who will be available to sign in free agency will be Ben Hamilton, and while he will probably end up here in some capacity, he's a below average player, not dissimilar from Dockery.

Really the two best players on our OL are STILL Samuels and Thomas. That's the part I think we have to change this offseason. Thomas, I think, will be the RG next year, but I don't think we can count on him to not get hurt, and I think Samuels will ultimately decide to retire.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=GMScud;664349]Pack mentality? Nah. Maybe it's be the fact that he gets used like a rag doll against better competition, specifically 3-4 nose guards? Or the fact that he can't call out protections to save his life? Yeah, that's why I think he's a bum. Nothing to do with the internet.[/quote]



name the nose guards...

let somebody tee off on you unabated 40-50 times in three hours in stupidly contrived offenses that feature dinks and dunks ..

He was a part of the line that made the playoffs twice before the Zorn disater.. The Center has more responsibilities than covering for third string guards..and guys that the Rams passed over..

I've seen him struggle at times..and you certainly have your right to your opinion..all I hear about Casey is his professionalism..and work ethic .. he is no bum...

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

The Skins WILL draft a LT with thier first pick, for the simple reason that they have to.
Yes, have to.
They NEED an all-pro caliber LT to be successful,
they don't have one,
and there are no realistic FA's who fit that definition.
No other options.
It sucks to spend a #4 overall pick on a lineman, but you just have to bite the bullet, and you'll be glad you did, every sunday for 10 years.

Best LT with 1st pick, and either Pouncey or Iupati in the 2nd.

Next year, take QB (Locker/Mallett)in the 1st, OL in the 2nd.

Just get young tough athletic lineman and let them gel over time.

BTW, next season is gonna be a mess, we'll be drafting top 5 again.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

2nd Round-Charles Brown-USC-OT
3rd Round-Jared Velheer-Hillsdale-OT/OG(Trade to get a pick)
4th Round-Matt Tennant-BC-C/OG

Resign Levi Jones

Our 2010 offensive line
LT Charles Brown/Jared Velheer
LG Dockery
C Tennant
RG Rinehart/Montgomery
RT Velheer/Levi Jones

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

I have a Velheer analysis that I am going to be putting together when I can rent game tape of both Grand Valley-Hillsdale games from this year for "coursework", but I'll just say that I'm not all that impressed with watching him live. He's a dominant lineman in division 2, but he looked very slow against some of the better D-II pass rushers (GVSU's line).

Considering that the best pass rushers at this level make up the bottom of the barrel at the professional level, I think his best chance to make it might be on the inside. Not all that dissimilar from Chad Rinehart. I don't really have a good concept of his build or projection as an interior lineman though. So maybe that's not realistic.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;664664]Sorry, I cannot let this one go by...
Heyer is not "servicable to good". Heyer is like your emergency 3rd string QB. When he has to go into the game in the second quarter, the s*hit has already hit the fan and you are downwind.[/quote]

Without the hyperbole, why isn't Heyer serviceable?
He played hurt last year but played better then the un-injured Levi Jones who some would consider serviceable.
Also, if you recall the 2009 after Samuels was hurt Heyer stepped in at LT and played well.


[quote]Edwin Williams did not "play good" at guard. He did not soil himself; he did not embarrass his family. Other than that, you would have to look really hard to come up with positive statements about his play on the line.[/quote]

Again i ask you why? How would you describe Edwin Williams play at RG?
OL play is hard to evaluate.
Not hearing a players name is a good thing and when Edwin played RG his named wasn't mentioned for negatives.
And you have to remember Edwin was an UDFA playing out of postion

What was negative about Edwin Williams play?

[quote]Rinehart has never - - as in not ever - - done anything on a Sunday in Washington that would distinguish him from an off-duty piano mover in a Redskins' uniform. MAYBE he will blossom into an offensive guard someday; maybe he will go back to his home and take up needlepoint for a living. So far, the performance on the field in real NFL games on Sundays tends to make me think about the "needlepoint option".[/quote]

These are cool sounding phrases and such but what specifically did he do on the field to support your opinion? The stats support that both Edwin Williams and Rinehart were 2 bright spot on our OL.


[quote]If the Redskins OL for 2010 has E. Williams, Rinehart and Heyer as starters, maybe we need to sign Barry Sanders to play QB - - because the QB will be running for his life for much of the season...[/quote]

Its like you weren't even reading my post.
We can't in one offseason realistically upgrade every position on the OL.
And the interior OL began playing well once the rotating door stopped.
There are players from last year that are going to play on the OL this year.
We don't know what Edwin and Rinehart are going to become but they are the youth on this team that show some promise.
Personally i don't think you were paying close attention to which players were playing well on the OL, you just know that as unit they were bad and you're ready to damn them all.
While i would love to have an all-pro OL it takes time to build one especially when our OL has be neglected for a decade.




Instead of simply sharpshooting why don't you tell us how you would realistically approach improving the OL with and without using thr 4th pick on an OL?

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=GTripp0012;664998]I have a Velheer analysis that I am going to be putting together when I can rent game tape of both Grand Valley-Hillsdale games from this year for "coursework", but I'll just say that I'm not all that impressed with watching him live. [B]He's a dominant lineman in division 2, but he looked very slow against some of the better D-II pass rushers[/B] (GVSU's line).

Considering that the best pass rushers at this level make up the bottom of the barrel at the professional level, I think his best chance to make it might be on the inside. Not all that dissimilar from Chad Rinehart. I don't really have a good concept of his build or projection as an interior lineman though. So maybe that's not realistic.[/quote]

I read that he is working his way up draft boards with his athleticism and he should rise even higher after a strong combine.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=WaldSkins;665000]I read that he is working his way up draft boards with his athleticism and he should rise even higher after a strong combine.[/quote]Without the benefit of replay, I'd say you should take the word of the scouting report off of film over whatever I saw, in general. He was one of 11 guys, the only one I cared to scout for sure, but I was still watching a game with a rooting interest. But looking slow (unquantifiable) is probably a lot different than being athletic (quantifiable).

Don't know how they are projecting players to have a strong combine at this point. Seems to defeat the purpose of a combine.

I was only at one of the two match-ups between the schools. The other was a GVSU road game (and first regular season loss in five years). The game I was at wasn't really close, so perhaps I caught Velheer (and the rest of his team) on a bad day.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=WaldSkins;664994]2nd Round-Charles Brown-USC-OT
3rd Round-Jared Velheer-Hillsdale-OT/OG(Trade to get a pick)
4th Round-Matt Tennant-BC-C/OG

Resign Levi Jones

Our 2010 offensive line
LT Charles Brown/Jared Velheer
LG Dockery
C Tennant
RG Rinehart/Montgomery
RT Velheer/Levi Jones[/quote]

you and I pretty much have the same idea for OL and the draft, except I have another rookie starting at RG instead of Rinehart.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;665038]you and I pretty much have the same idea for OL and the draft, except I have another rookie starting at RG instead of Rinehart.[/quote]

I also have that guy from the broncos that we signed in the mix but i was too lazy to look up his name.
Kory Lightstringer??

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=WaldSkins;665040]I also have that guy from the broncos that we signed in the mix but i was too lazy to look up his name.
Kory Lightstringer??[/quote]

Just call him Kory L. Though for the record his name is Kory Lichtensteiger.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=SmootSmack;664713]I think Rodger Saffold from Indiana might be a good 4th-5th round choice

Been hearing some talk of Selvish Capers in the 2nd round for the Skins this week. Not sure what to make of that.[/quote]
Yeah not sure about that one either. A guy that would be more suited towards starting soon would be better, even if it's at RT. I hear he's more of a LT but not quite ready to start.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Ruhskins;664538]Just as I suspected (by reading these posts), just about every FA offensive lineman that we could get (UFAs) are over the age of 30. While a number of them could play very well and would be huge upgrades over our current players, I think by filling all of the holes in the line with 30+ year old lineman, you're at risk of having injured starters.

I just feel that we've been gambling on patching up the line with older players for a while now. And the downside of this year is that we aren't able to pick up a marquee lineman in his mid to late 20s (i.e. Marcus McNeill) because RFA rules due to the uncapped season, without giving up draft picks.

It seems like everyone wants to get young at every position except the line (see the Jamal Lewis and Chester Taylor threads).[/quote]

In the QB vs OT at #4 argument, I think this is a strong point of yours. Drafting Bradford/Clausen would make it more difficult to get young on the OL. We can draft a QB at #4 and still put together a decent line but it would not be as young as it would if we took Okung.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

30gut:

Heyer and Williams were part of an offensive line that was overmatched in just about every game. Heyer is marginal against a pass rush and is less than satisfactory as a run blocker. Did you notice how often the Skins "ran left" on short yardage situations? I'm sure opposing defensive coordinators did. The reason they "ran left" is that Heyer as the RT is not any good at run blocking. He is an emergency player not a starter.

Williams' participation in games at right guard did not show any measured improvement in pass blocking by the OL and if he ever led a big run play downfield, I must have been distracted because I did not see it. I also never saw him "pancake" any DL in front of him. Sorry, this guy has a LOT of improving to do before he qualifies as a starter on a contending team. How would I describe his play at RG? Marginal - - and I would wager that if the Redskins cut him today, his agent's telephone would not be ringing off the hook with offers from 20 other teams in the NFL. If he were really a "bright spot" on the OL, and he were released, he would be contacted by a dozen other teams within the hour...

Rinehart has been here for two seasons. He has made it to the field on a Sunday how many times? Three? Four? Five at the most. Remember, he did not play at all in his rookie season... He was hurt this year and missed 6 games due to injury but that leaves 26 games in his career and he only found the field 3-5 times. Evidently, the coaches figured that he was lacking in skills most of the time that they put together their game plans.

If Williams and Rinehart are "2 bright spots" on the Skins' OL, how come they were not in games very often? And when they were in games, how come the Skins didn't dominate people?

The fact that Williams was an UDFA playing out of position does not mean he is a "bright spot" on the OL. The fact that he was not mentioned for any negatives does not mean he is a "bright spot" on the OL. When you out of the lineup because the coaches think there are better players than you are, you will never be mentioned for any "negatives"; that is not a "positive".

I read your original post carefully. I too have been saying that it will be next to impossible to reconstruct the entire OL in a single season. However, I simply cannot subscribe to the notion that the "OL began playing well once the rotating door stopped." The OL did not play well for most of the season; once Samuels and Thomas were hurt, it played poorly to marginally for the rest of the season. That poor-to-marginal play is a major reason the record was 4-12.

Just when did the OL start to play well in 2009?

Game 16 the Skins lost to the Chargers' JV squad.

Game 15 the Skins lost to the Cowboys in a shutout. Guess the OL didn't have a lot of "bright spots" that day.

Game 14 the Skins lost to a mediocre Giants' team by almost 5 TDs.

Game 13 the Skins beat the Oakland Raiders by 3 TDs. If this is when the OL line play began to be a positive, it sure seems to have evaporated quickly...

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=tryfuhl;665068]Yeah not sure about that one either. A guy that would be more suited towards starting soon would be better, even if it's at RT. I hear he's more of a LT but not quite ready to start.[/quote]

In that case we would probably be going for the tackle overkill scenario (not that it's a bad thing). Capers would actually be a very good fit at RT in a ZBS considering he played a blindside RT at WVU, thats a rare type of RT. However if you find a way to get Okung and Charles Brown then you have the best tackle pair since Jansen/Samuels in their prime.

The scenario though that I keep on hearing these days is Okung/Jhavid Best (RB Cal). Which sounds logical. Personally I don't know what I want at this point. People around here have provided compelling arguments for keeping JC around past 2010 and personally it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I mean he seems at this point to be just as good as Matt Schuab when he came to the Texans but sometimes I wonder if I'm just overreaching.

Part of me would love to see Campbell succeed while the other voice in my head tells me that JC will only take us so far. Some other popular scenarios seem to be as follows.

1. Bradford or Clausen/ Best Available Tackle, hopefully Brown
2. Okung/ Brandon Spikes
3. Okung/ Jhavid Best
4. Okung/Brown or best available tackle
5. Okung/ Maurkice Pouncey (C/G Florida)
6. Okung/ Colt McCoy

There are a lot of options out there. Hopefully in the end we come away with two players that will help our franchise out for a long time.

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;665083]
If Williams and Rinehart are "2 bright spots" on the Skins' OL, how come they were not in games very often? And when they were in games, how come the Skins didn't dominate people?
[/quote]

Williams was a rookie thats still developing and for all intents and purposes it was said that he was one of the more promising guys we had based on his performance in practice. One or two of our current lineman from last year are probably going to step up and play better then last year thanks to the new system.

The Falcons had that with their entire line when Mularky came in though I wouldn't bank on such a promising turnaround for our own line. And personally I don't know about Rineharts ability to function in a ZBS but we'll either find out in camp or hopefully find a way to bring in Chris Kuper. It's very likely though that Ben Hamilton will be here on the start of free agency.

I'd also like to encourage people not to sleep on Rabach. Rabach was pretty good earlier in his career in power blocking schemes and now he's about to be part of an offense tailored to his strengths.
[quote]Comment: Rabach has been a mainstay in the middle of the Redskins' offensive line since coming over from Baltimore in 2005.[B] He has excellent quickness and balance.[/B] He gains leverage early in the play and utilizes active hands, [B]technique [/B]and effort to defeat larger defenders.[B] He is an intelligent player who makes all the line calls[/B] and[B] understands angles[/B] as well as reacting quickly to changing fronts and pressure packages. [B]He is effective on combination blocks to scoop up to the second level. [/B]He is solid in space to lock on and wall off moving targets. He can [B]slide and recover in the box when pass protecting[/B] but lacks great size and power verse larger bull rushers. Rabach is a tough, hardnosed football player who has been one of the most consistent performers for the Redskins' offensive line. [/quote]

[quote=SmootSmack;664713]I think Rodger Saffold from Indiana might be a good 4th-5th round choice

[/quote]

I think we would be very lucky to have him fall that far. It feels like to be that he could easily be one of those guys that slips into the second round but last no later then the early third. So far he's been impressive this offseason with a strong performance at the East-West All Star Game.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Actually forget what I said about Rinehart. I mean lets remember this guy did play LT in college so he has some agility. And from what I've hear he wasn't really to bad when he played last year. His scouting report from his rookie year also suggest he could be successful in a ZBS. Rinehart could easily become our next Dockery. A third round pick that we thought to be a lost cause that turns around to be one of our better players.

[quote][B]Has above-average initial quickness for a guard and can get into position when technique is sound[/B]. Plays with a mean streak, delivers a violent punch and can jar defenders at the point of contact. Works from the snap until the whistle and can sustain blocks once locked on. Has adequate lower body strength and flashes the ability to drive defenders.[B] Takes sound angles to downfield blocks and can get into position at the second level.[/B] [I](this is important in a ZBS)[/I] Keeps head up and generally does a good job of [B]sliding off combo blocks to pick up linebackers[/B] [I](You want to pick up linebackers if you want to break off big runs)[/I]. Shows good awareness in pass protection and can adjust to line stunts and blitzes. Though bends at the waist rather than the knees, has good size and can hold ground against bull rushers. Lined up at tackle in college and is somewhat versatile. While missed three games after undergoing an appendectomy in 2004 started the last 39 games of his collegiate career and is durable.[/quote]

Right now I see the line shaping up next year as something like this.

LT - Rookie/Free Agent
LG - Dockery - Ben Hamilton
C - Rabach - Edwin Williams
RG - Rinehart - Kory L. (Chris Kuper or Maurice Pouncey would automatically become the starter if acquired)
RT - Rookie or Free Agent/Levi Jones

At this point though theres just to many variables and scenarios to make an accurate prediction. For the most part though I like the way our interior line is shaping up, even without a guy like Pouncey or Kuper. It's the two tackle spots that need a lot of work. One things for sure though. We won't have guys like Big Mike or Will Robinson starting for us.

By the way when do we get Armstrong back?

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;665085]The scenario though that I keep on hearing these days is Okung/Jhavid Best (RB Cal).[/quote]

Where have you heard that? Best would be an awesome pick. Though I could see the Skins taking a chance of Coker in the 4th-5th round.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Love Best.. wouldn't mind trying Coker or Blount depending what we're aiming for in that dept

I'd also venture to say that Rine and crew didn't necessarily perform poorly, but there seemed to be gross mismanagement making decisions on things.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=SmootSmack;665091]Where have you heard that? Best would be an awesome pick. Though I could see the Skins taking a chance of Coker in the 4th-5th round.[/quote]

Crap I thought I replied to this. In fact now that I think about it, this was the last thread I remember reading before the meltdown.

Anyway to sum up I've seen both WalterDraft and Mel Kiper refer to Best as a possible 2nd round pick for the Redskins. On top of that I've seen what feels like numerous people suggesting the Okung/Best scenario a few times on RI and ES.

So it's by no means official, even by mock draft standards, but it sounds plausible, at least to me, and apparently a few others.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Why use a 2nd round pick on Jahvid Best? We already have a player with his skill set in Anthony Aldridge. RB coach just needs to coach him up more in holding the ball higher and tighter which i know he can do. Shanahan loves pounding the rock as much as he can but Best isnt an every down back. Why waste a pick as high as 2nd on a committee runner? No Thanx, grab more Olineman help Brown, Ducassee, Campbell, etc

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=PHazard;665399]Why use a 2nd round pick on Jahvid Best? We already have a player with his skill set in [B]Anthony Aldridge. RB coach just needs to coach him up more in holding the ball higher and tighter which i know he can do.[/B] Shanahan loves pounding the rock as much as he can but Best isnt an every down back. [B]Why waste a pick as high as 2nd on a committee runner? No Thanx, grab more Olineman help Brown, Ducassee, Campbell, etc[/quote][/B]

Agree 110%

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=PHazard;665399][B]Why use a 2nd round pick on Jahvid Best[/B]? We already have a player with his skill set in Anthony Aldridge. RB coach just needs to coach him up more in holding the ball higher and tighter which i know he can do. Shanahan loves pounding the rock as much as he can but Best isnt an every down back. Why waste a pick as high as 2nd on a committee runner? No Thanx, grab more Olineman help Brown, Ducassee, Campbell, etc[/quote]

Just to play devils advocate as I want to see either a QB/T or T/OL draft but you draft Best because you have visions of a young Clinton Portis. At the same time though he could easily end up being a flash in the pan like Julius Jones, Kevin Jones, and gasp Tatum Bell.

Personally the idea of drafting a RB this high at this point in time makes me nervous. Maybe if we were more established and were truly one or two pieces away from a Super Bowl, especially since RB's learn quickly in spite of their short shelf life.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;665441]Just to play devils advocate as I want to see either a QB/T or T/OL draft but you draft Best because you have visions of a young Clinton Portis. At the same time though he could easily end up being a flash in the pan like Julius Jones, Kevin Jones, and gasp Tatum Bell.

Personally the idea of drafting a RB this high at this point in time makes me nervous. Maybe if we were more established and were truly one or two pieces away from a Super Bowl, especially since RB's learn quickly in spite of their short shelf life.[/quote]

Just to play Keanu Reeves, Best isnt the same mold as a Clinton Portis, a Julius Jones, or a Kevin Jones. They are bigger stronger backs who can carry more of the workload. All have been the Main guy at some point in their respected careers. But Best is in the mold of a darren sproles, a leon washington, and an anthony alridge. A change of pace back. Speed that will catch you off guard. So again. No need to use a 2nd round pick on a change of pace back. If Portis goes down to injury, you trust best to take the bulk of the carries? With his past injury history, id say he wouldnt hold up long. If we're keeping portis, you take a 5-7th round pick or Undrafted rookie on a bigger back and use alridge in change of pace situations. Shanahan is the one who suggested him to the redskins. Said Alridge was the fastest player he'd ever seen on the field with a football in his hand. And Shanahan used him well for the 1 season wit Broncos. Hail.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=PHazard;665450]Just to play Keanu Reeves, Best isnt the same mold as a Clinton Portis, a Julius Jones, or a Kevin Jones. They are bigger stronger backs who can carry more of the workload. All have been the Main guy at some point in their respected careers. But Best is in the mold of a darren sproles, a leon washington, and an anthony alridge. A change of pace back. Speed that will catch you off guard. So again. No need to use a 2nd round pick on a change of pace back. If Portis goes down to injury, you trust best to take the bulk of the carries? With his past injury history, id say he wouldnt hold up long. If we're keeping portis, you take a 5-7th round pick or Undrafted rookie on a bigger back and use alridge in change of pace situations. Shanahan is the one who suggested him to the redskins. Said Alridge was the fastest player he'd ever seen on the field with a football in his hand. And Shanahan used him well for the 1 season wit Broncos. Hail.[/quote]

Keanu,

The comparison to CP was based on the scouting reports of him saying that upon entering the league that he could not be counted on to be an every down back.

[quote]Patient runner with great vision and a sense of awareness. Sees the field, waits for blocks to develop then follows them. Displays top footwork in a small area; sidesteps opponents, has some swivel to his runs, showing elusiveness in a small area. Leaves opponents grasping for air and weaves his way through the traffic, finding the small spaces in the defense and getting through them. Looks to set up his blocks either at the line of scrimmage or down the field. Adjusts off the initial hit, breaks arm tackles and quick regaining his balance and getting back to running form. Solid receiver out of the backfield that catches the ball cleanly and runs well after the reception. Does not translate his stop watch speed onto the football field; can not bounce it to the outside, run to daylight nor does he show a burst. [B]Best between the tackles but may not have the size to take an every down pounding. Very productive and a runner who will produce if put in a rotational system that shuffles its backs in and out of the lineup. Late Second Round.[/B][/quote]

Though yes you're right Best is an outside runner while CP was obviously seen as a between the tackles guy. I wasn't even necessarily coming him skill wise to Kevin, Julius, and CP. Though out of that group Kevin might have been the only "everydown" back.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

I'm really interested in seeing how Dwyer does at the combine. If he shows he can keep the weight off I think he's potentially a better choice than Best or Spiller

Anyone interested in signing Casey Wiegmann?

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=[B]SmootSmack;665505]I'm really interested in seeing how Dwyer does at the combine. If he shows he can keep the weight off I think he's potentially a better choice than Best or Spiller
[/B]
Anyone interested in signing Casey Wiegmann?[/quote]

I would rather take LeGarette Blount or Dexter McCluster with a later pick

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=SmootSmack;665505]I'm really interested in seeing how Dwyer does at the combine. If he shows he can keep the weight off I think he's potentially a better choice than Best or Spiller

[B]Anyone interested in signing Casey Wiegmann?[/B][/quote]

Other than his age, the fit here is too obvious to mention. I would not mind if we brought him in. In the worst case, he teaches the Shanahan method to the young bucks who presumably will be on the roster post-April.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;665083]30gut:
Heyer and Williams were part of an offensive line that was overmatched in just about every game. Heyer is marginal against a pass rush and is less than satisfactory as a run blocker. Did you notice how often the Skins "ran left" on short yardage situations? I'm sure opposing defensive coordinators did. The reason they "ran left" is that Heyer as the RT is not any good at run blocking. He is an emergency player not a starter.[/quote]

I agree and i said that Heyer was [I][B]serviceable[/B][/I] with the potential to become good. Heyer like i mentioned was playing with a bad knee, a knee injured to the point where he couldn't practice some weeks but he still went out there and battled. Logic tells me that a healthy Heyer will play better then he did last year and although he played hurt Heyer was better then Levi Jones who is considered to be a serviceable player by some (not by me).
I look back at the Heyer I saw at the end on 2008 when Heyer took over the LT spot for an injured Samuels. That is the potential i see for healthy Stephon Heyer not the injured plagued player with a different partner playing next to him almost every week. I think an underrated cause of the Redskins problems on OL was lack of cohesion itself if the same guy would have played RG the enitre season they would have been better then a different gut almost every week.

[quote]Williams' participation in games at right guard did not show any measured improvement in pass blocking by the OL and if he ever led a big run play downfield, I must have been distracted because I did not see it.[/quote]

Well how are we gonna measure improvement? Because if look at the stats from football prospectus he performed better then most of the other OL on our team.
Just as you didn't see him make any pancakes i didn't see him getting pushed back like Rabach or missing many blocks. And don't forget we're talking about a UDFA rookie Center he's going to have a learning curve. Especially when he's playing a new position next to an injured RT and a less then stout Center.

[quote] I also never saw him "pancake" any DL in front of him. Sorry, this guy has a LOT of improving to do before he qualifies as a starter on a contending team. How would I describe his play at RG? Marginal [/quote]

I don't think having 'pancake' blocks was a requirement for being serviceable.
And i agree that he does have a lot of improving to do before he become a starter on a contending team. But guess what? We're not a contending team.
And how different is marginal from serviceable?
How about this: Edwin was marginal talent with upside based on youth?
And i was projecting him at his natural position of Center where he would instantly be more stout then Rabach.

[quote]Rinehart has been here for two seasons. He has made it to the field on a Sunday how many times? Three? Four? Five at the most. Remember, he did not play at all in his rookie season... He was hurt this year and missed 6 games due to injury but that leaves 26 games in his career and he only found the field 3-5 times. Evidently, the coaches figured that he was lacking in skills most of the time that they put together their game plans.[/quote]


How about his actual play? You mention a lot of points about his past but don't comment on how he[I] played[/I]. And to my eye when he was in the game he played well. (And again the pro football prospectus support what my eye showed me) he was one of our better OL.

[quote]If Williams and Rinehart are "2 bright spots" on the Skins' OL, how come they were not in games very often? And when they were in games, how come the Skins didn't dominate people?[/quote]

Well if you're paying attention our OL play wasn't very good Levi Jones was on of the worst LT in football and an injured Heyer was slighty better. Therein was the crux of our OL problems imo.
Imo, Rinehart and Williams were bright spots because they're our young OL and possible future and they held their own when they were pressed into duty for the 1st time.

[quote] The fact that he was not mentioned for any negatives does not mean he is a "bright spot" on the OL. When you out of the lineup because the coaches think there are better players than you are, you will never be mentioned for any "negatives"; that is not a "positive".[/quote]

One of the common ways to know if an OL had at least a good game is if his name wasn't mentioned for a) getting beat b) holding or some other penalty.
So i'm gonna have to disagree when your an OL and your name isn't mentioned for something negative that in and of itself is a positive.

[quote]I read your original post carefully. I too have been saying that it will be next to impossible to reconstruct the entire OL in a single season. However, I simply cannot subscribe to the notion that the "OL began playing well once the rotating door stopped." The OL did not play well for most of the season; once Samuels and Thomas were hurt, it played poorly to marginally for the rest of the season. That poor-to-marginal play is a major reason the record was 4-12.[/quote]

I agree for the most part except you're misquoting me i was refering to the interior OL not the enitre OL.

You cut out the beginning of my statement:
[quote=30gut;664999]And the interior OL began playing well once the rotating door stopped.[/quote]

And i want to mention imo a major reason for the seemingly improved play from the interior OL could certainly be given to Sherman Lewis playcalling.

I didn't think the interior OL was a big problem to begin with.
And i think we can agree that Doc wasn't a problem?
And although Rabach wasn't as stout as i would like he was much better then the OTs.
That leaves RG and once Montgomery stopped playing i thought the RG play improved.

I don't have a game-by-game breakdown of the interior OL.

But if you want which specific games i would say:
Falcons game where the backs rushed for 96 yards
Broncos backs rushed for 159 yard
Basically i thought the interior OL weeks 9-16 with the exception of the Giants game where the whole team looked disinterested other then Campbell and the Dallas game.

Look you have to build somewhere we can't have a completely new OL and you're not going to have big name players all across the OL but you have to start from somewhere and imo the place to start is the weakest spot. If these players make you feel umcomfortable its all the more reason to take an OT with the 1st so we have an honest chance at improving our OL next year. If it makes you feel better you can view our youth as the least horrible players on the OL who didn't crap themselves when their number was called.

[IMG]http://thm-a02.yimg.com/nimage/c9d55a8cc4ade3fc[/IMG]

But, believe good OL's are built over time with good coaching and playing time togother as a unit developing chemistry. Every player along the OL isn't going to be a big name player but the have to be able to play and these guys have shown signs and they're young.

HTTR!

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=SmootSmack;665505]Anyone interested in signing Casey Wiegmann?[/quote]Yes. But I'd prefer if he had to battle for the job before he got a roster spot guaranteed to him.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Love Monterrio Hardesty in the fourth if Matt Tennant is gone (and if quarterback has been addressed).

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Heyer went from one of our worst run blockers in 2008 to one of our best last season. Unfortunately his pass blocking was unimproved from his previous season, and at age 25, he's only a fringe starter in this league.

We'd be better off with Stephon Heyer at RT than with Levi Jones at LT, but only marginally. The larger point that if we ever have to see Stephon Heyer at LT with Mike Williams at RT again, it's time to give up hope.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

wiegmann would be fine but if we're robbing the nursing home might as well look at mawae too

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=SmootSmack;665505]I'm really interested in seeing how Dwyer does at the combine. If he shows he can keep the weight off I think he's potentially a better choice than Best or Spiller

Anyone interested in signing Casey Wiegmann?[/quote]

Yes.
Rabach is a UFA and Wiegmann imo represents an upgrade because of both ability and knowledge of scheme.

He could man the spot until our current centers (Edwin Williams and Lichtensteiger) are ready to take over.

[quote=GTripp0012;665604]Heyer went from one of our worst run blockers in 2008 to one of our best last season. Unfortunately his pass blocking was unimproved from his previous season, and at age 25, he's only a fringe starter in this league.[/quote]

I could agree with fringe starter.
I guess i'm alone in thinking that because he played injured for the beter part of last year and that at 25 years old he [B][I]could[/I][/B] improve from a fringe starter to a decent starter.

I wonder who would be a better RT/LT [B][I]next year[/I][/B] the 6th/7th/8th ranked OT like Ducasse, Brown or Veldeer(sp?) or a healthy Heyer?

[quote]We'd be better off with Stephon Heyer at RT than with Levi Jones at LT, but only marginally. [/quote]

I agree that an [I]injured[/I] Heyer is marginally better the Levi Jones.

[quote] [B][I]The larger point that if we ever have to see Stephon Heyer at LT with Mike Williams at RT again, it's time to give up hope[/I][/B].[/quote]

^^That scares the beejesus out of me and its why i think we should take an OT or trade down and get an OT in in the 1st round.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=GTripp0012;665603]Love Monterrio Hardesty in the fourth if Matt Tennant is gone (and if quarterback has been addressed).[/quote]

Same, but I think between the two, shanny would go with Tennant, since he is being compared to Tom Nalen, the former bronco's all pro center. McShay says Hardesty reminds him of portis though.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[url=http://twitter.com/JReidPost/status/9632636935]Twitter / Jason Reid: The Redskins this week rea ...[/url]

via: [url=http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2219]Casey Rabach[/url]



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Argh.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

In related news: [url=http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=1342]Casey Wiegmann[/url]