Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=skinsfan69;803587]Why is everyone so obsessed with Rogers dropping the ball? He's a freakin' corner, not a wr. Jeez....I know it's pathetic but his job is to cover first.[/quote]

Which is why I said it all depends on what Rogers roll was in each of the defenses; GW, Blache, and Haslett. It's easy to say his job is to cover first, thats what all CB are supposed to do. They are supposed to cover the WR. But I think it all depends on whether they are playing zone or man-to-man, or if his job is to rush the QB. I don't need to explain it but man-to-man is easy... he's to cover the WR. In zone he's supposed to watch and area and at some point from the LOS he has to release the WR to the safety. Sometimes I think Rogers released too soon and the safety was not in a position to take over the responsibility which led to a TD or 1st down. In man-to-man he bites hard on the first move sometimes. Which is why teams quickly figured out that if their WR did a stop and go they had a better chance of making the play.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=jdlea;803590]Yeah, you're right, Hall did give up what could have been the game winner. However, I believe that play came after a Carlos Rogers dropped pick. An EASY pick that would have ended the game. Instead, him not catching it gave the Cowboys more shots at the end zone...but you're right, scoring the Skins' only touchdown totally didn't do anything for them in that one...Hall SUCKS!

I'm not going to sit here and act like Hall is a great player, but your blind hatred of him is really turning you into a broken record. Let me get this straight: you want to ditch the guy who won the team two games last year by scoring touchdowns/getting picks, says "this is my defense" and at least talks like he likes it in Washington and keep the guy who takes every chance he can to take shots at the team he plays for...that makes sense.

At the end of the day, they both have their deficiencies and neither one are all that good. Carlos can cover and Hall can change games when he's actually close enough to a receiver, or the football, to get a pick. Really, if they somehow melded into one player with Rogers' coverage skills and Hall's ability to catch and score once he has the ball they'd make a great corner. Instead, we have one who gambles too much and another who does a good job of coverage and breaking on the ball, he just can't catch it...unfortunately the latter never keeps his mouth shut and likes to lambaste his employer; I say let him walk.[/quote]

Game. Set. Match

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803553]What stats are you using? D. Hall has never been a top ranked CB, in fact, he's been one of the worst ranked CBs in the NFL for many years now. I've shown those numbers repeatedly. The numbers I showed actually had Carlos (in one of the years) ranked really high in terms of his position. We aren't talking about "Hype" rankings here, we are talking about actual productivity. Or in the case of CBs, the lack of production (against you) is the key.[/quote]


As I said NFL.com but remember they are using all DB's to include safeties.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_BACK&conference=0015&season=2010&seasonType=REG]NFL Stats: by Player Position[/url]

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=skinsfan69;803571]Rogers has EVERY RIGHT to be bitter. Hall is GARBAGE as a cover corner and he tackles like a soft lil' bitch. I don't think either of them are going to Canton, but game in, game out, I want the guy that can cover and tackle. Think about it, Rogers has seen numerous free agents get paid here and a lot of them end up playing like crap. Yet the front office never seems to reward their own that have proven themselves. I hope those days are over. But Bruce Allen had a chance to give Rogers a raise and low balled him. Not right IMO.[/quote]

Wow cowboy, Hall might be, as you put it, GARBAGE for not being a great tackler (which I don't know where you get that from), but then you'd have to say Roger's is GARBAGE also because he can't catch the ball. See both are CB's responsibilities and if you can't do one of them then your half good. Now I'll give Rogers credit that if he can't intercept the ball he atleast tries to make sure the WR does not get it. I honestly think your severely down playing Hall's tackling ability.

[B]Halls 2010 highlights[/B]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkiJw0BW5j0]YouTube - ‪DeAngelo Hall 2010 Highlights‬‏[/ame]

I think he puts a pretty nice hit on someone at around 1:18. But it does seem to be special teams.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOS_CT7nJto]YouTube - ‪Washington Redskins Pro Bowl 2010‬‏[/ame]

[B]Carlos Roger 2010 highlights[/B]
None.

I guess when your really that good you don't need highlight reels.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=jdlea;803591]Really? Lucky bounce? He FORCED THE DAMN FUMBLE and then he picked it up and scored.[/quote]

Recovering a fumble is pure luck. The act of stripping it is skill. Don't confuse the two. Like I said, he picked up a lucky bounce. What if he stripped the ball, the ball bounced out of bounds, no score for the Skins. We lose that game. The fact the ball stayed in bounds and bounced/rolled in a fashion he could easily scoop up is luck.


[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/FO-basics]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Football Outsiders Basics (a.k.a. "Pregame Show")[/url]
[quote]Recovery of a fumble, despite being the product of hard work, is almost entirely random.

Stripping the ball is a skill. Holding onto the ball is a skill. Pouncing on the ball as it is bouncing all over the place is not a skill. There is no correlation whatsoever between the percentage of fumbles recovered by a team in one year and the percentage they recover in the next year. The odds of recovery are based solely on the type of play involved, not the teams or any of their players.

Fans like to insist that specific coaches can teach their teams to recover more fumbles by swarming to the ball. Chicago's Lovie Smith, in particular, is supposed to have this ability. However, since Smith took over the Bears, their rate of fumble recovery on defense went from a league-best 76 percent to a league-worst 33 percent in 2005, then back to 67 percent in 2006. Last year, they recovered 57 percent of fumbles, close to the league average.

Fumble recovery is equally erratic on offense. In 2008, the Bears fumbled 12 times on offense and recovered only three of them. In 2009, the Bears fumbled 18 times on offense, but recovered 13 of them.

Fumble recovery is a major reason why the general public overestimates or underestimates certain teams. Fumbles are huge, turning-point plays that dramatically impact wins and losses in the past, while fumble recovery percentage says absolutely nothing about a team's chances of winning games in the future. With this in mind, Football Outsiders stats treat all fumbles as equal, penalizing them based on the likelihood of each type of fumble (run, pass, sack, etc.) being recovered by the defense.

Other plays that qualify as "non-predictive events" include blocked kicks and touchdowns during turnover returns. These plays are not "lucky," per se, but they have no value whatsoever for predicting future performance.[/quote]

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=SBXVII;803601] I honestly think your severely down playing Hall's tackling ability.
[/quote]



[YT]uE7ZBTvrtIA[/YT]

..lol

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

Wait.... I found a highlight reel.....

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aGNwiCEvRA]YouTube - ‪Eastern Motors Redskins Carlos Rogers Crushes Salesman‬‏[/url]

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803602]Recovering a fumble is pure luck. The act of stripping it is skill. Don't confuse the two. Like I said, he picked up a lucky bounce. What if he stripped the ball, the ball bounced out of bounds, no score for the Skins. We lose that game. The fact the ball stayed in bounds and bounced/rolled in a fashion he could easily scoop up is luck.


[URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/FO-basics"]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Football Outsiders Basics (a.k.a. "Pregame Show")[/URL][/quote]

Sooo your taking an opinionated article and using their definition of "fumble recovery" as "luck"?

Nice.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803603][YT]uE7ZBTvrtIA[/YT]

..lol[/quote]


and? Carlos never got owned? Ok.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803602]Recovering a fumble is pure luck. The act of stripping it is skill. Don't confuse the two. Like I said, he picked up a lucky bounce. What if he stripped the ball, the ball bounced out of bounds, no score for the Skins. We lose that game. The fact the ball stayed in bounds and bounced/rolled in a fashion he could easily scoop up is luck.


[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/FO-basics]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Football Outsiders Basics (a.k.a. "Pregame Show")[/url][/quote]

First off, the quoted article doesn't really apply to the play where he scored. The crux of it is right here:

[quote]Stripping the ball is a skill. Holding onto the ball is a skill. Pouncing on the ball as it is bouncing all over the place is not a skill. There is no correlation whatsoever between the percentage of fumbles recovered by a team in one year and the percentage they recover in the next year. The odds of recovery are based solely on the type of play involved, not the teams or any of their players.[/quote]

This article is really talking about the ability to predict who is more likely to recover a fumble based on the players involved more than saying, "when a football hits the ground, the following events are totally random and based on luck." You are correct that it was lucky the ball didn't bounce out of bounds and that it continued to roll/bounce backwards, however, picking up a bouncing football while running full speed is not easy and he did it while on his way to scoring the touchdown that ended up being the difference in that game. So, his strip and scoop were skillful, the luck came in the football going in the direction he pulled it and not taking an odd hop after hitting the ground.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=SBXVII;803607]Sooo your taking an opinionated article and using their definition of "fumble recovery" as "luck"?

Nice.[/quote]

Apparently you didn't read what I said, nor the article for that matter.


Act of stripping = skill

Way ball bounces = luck


The actual recovery of a fumble is pure luck. Hence, the first part of that play against the cowboys was skill, the second part resulted from luck. It's not that hard to understand.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803612]Apparently you didn't read what I said, nor the article for that matter.


Act of stripping = skill

Way ball bounces = luck


The actual recovery of a fumble is pure luck. Hence, the first part of that play against the cowboys was skill, the second part resulted from luck. It's not that hard to understand.[/quote]

Your right I must have missed something.....

the article was written by Aaron Schatz. Could you explain who he is and what makes his statement in his article fact? I'm betting you could ask a ton of other people and get a different answer each time.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=jdlea;803609]First off, the quoted article doesn't really apply to the play where he scored. The crux of it is right here:



This article is really talking about the ability to predict who is more likely to recover a fumble based on the players involved more than saying, "when a football hits the ground, the following events are totally random and based on luck." You are correct that it was lucky the ball didn't bounce out of bounds and that it continued to roll/bounce backwards, however, picking up a bouncing football while running full speed is not easy and he did it while on his way to scoring the touchdown that ended up being the difference in that game. So, his strip and scoop were skillful, the luck came in the football going in the direction he pulled it and not taking an odd hop after hitting the ground.[/quote]

You are trying hard my man, but it still comes down to how that ball bounced. It's really all luck or chance if you will. Sure, the holding onto the ball and stripping are skills, but that bounce is a huge factor in all of this. I've seen guys do the same thing, but right when they are about to snatch it up, the ball bounces in a completely different way and they miss it completely. You want to talk about skill, those two TDs (1 called back) he gave up was skill (or lack thereof). :P


[quote=SBXVII;803608]and? Carlos never got owned? Ok.[/quote]

...not like that. By a bum of a QB to seal the game? ...lol

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

The ball bounce WAS luck. It could have gone anywhere and it just happened to land in front of him.

The stripping of the ball and picking it up more then likely skill. Otherwise OL would be playing skill positions.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[IMG]http://yanksfansoxfan.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/13/502pxflushing_toilet.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=SBXVII;803613]Your right I must have missed something.....

the article was written by Aaron Schatz. Could you explain who he is and what makes his statement in his article fact? I'm betting you could ask a ton of other people and get a different answer each time.[/quote]


Can you prove his article is wrong? So if a author is unknown, that makes his writings invalid? Is that your whole argument?

I'm betting if I ask a ton of people that if a recovering a bouncing ball is luck and any of them said "no", than chances are I've found a bunch of idiots.


What isn't luck is this. Stripping the ball. Fighting for the ball in a pile. Those are things that can help you out in the recovery of a ball, but it still all boils down to how that brown ball bounces.


So let's move on. Carlos sucks and so does D. Hall.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803615]You are trying hard my man, but it still comes down to how that ball bounced. It's really all luck or chance if you will. Sure, the holding onto the ball and stripping are skills, but that bounce is a huge factor in all of this. I've seen guys do the same thing, but right when they are about to snatch it up, the ball bounces in a completely different way and they miss it completely. You want to talk about skill, those two TDs (1 called back) he gave up was skill (or lack thereof). :P[/quote]

I'm not really trying hard, some of what I said is pretty much straight from the article you brought into the thread. I'm not going to continue to argue this point, I already said that I believed the ball not bouncing out of bounds had to do with luck, but you're completely ignoring plenty of other things that were involved.

Honestly, I just don't care enough to belabor a point about a guy who made one hell of an INDIVIDUAL play. I mean, really, if we're arguing that a bouncing ball is luck, technically pretty much everything is luck. Football's aren't random and that's pretty how you're presenting it.

If Carlos ever hangs onto another pick in his career I'll make sure to point how lucky he was that the ball wasn't struck by a falling blimp for about 10 pages of a thread just to piss you off. ;) :food-smil

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

I'm not sure why we as fans always feel the need to put down another player when talking about one player.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803622]Can you prove his article is wrong? So if a author is unknown, that makes his writings invalid? Is that your whole argument?

I'm betting if I ask a ton of people that if a recovering a bouncing ball is luck and any of them said "no", than chances are I've found a bunch of idiots.


What isn't luck is this. Stripping the ball. Fighting for the ball in a pile. Those are things that can help you out in the recovery of a ball, but it still all boils down to how that brown ball bounces.


So let's move on. Carlos sucks and so does D. Hall.[/quote]

Picking up a bouncing ball isn't luck...having the ball bounce so that it can be picked up is luck.

[B]I N C E P T I O N[/B]

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=jdlea;803624]Honestly, I just don't care enough to belabor a point about a guy who made one hell of an INDIVIDUAL play. I mean, really, if we're arguing that a bouncing ball is luck, technically pretty much everything is luck. Football's aren't random and that's pretty how you're presenting it.
[/quote]

No, I think we both agreed. You are just putting too much priority emphasizes on the play itself when in fact the play may have never occurred had it not been for a lucky bounce. So that sole "spectacular individual play" relied on pure luck.


Here is another example of some incredible luck.

[YT]sVqwhxMq4a0[/YT]


To say that "technically pretty much everything is luck" is beyond false. It does take a lot of luck (with injuries/ball bouncing/etc) to win the Super Bowl, and I've heard countless coaches even say so. Better to be lucky than not.


This goes back to what SS says about people dissing Rogers because he drops INTs. Fans only care about the ESPN highlights, and many judge a players abilities by those highlights to. I think we are done here.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803626]I'm not sure why we as fans always feel the need to put down another player when talking about one player.[/quote]

If this is in reference to anything I've said, I'm sick and tired of people bashing Rogers, yet hail D. Hall as if he's some hero. Rogers is more consistent at the CB spot than Hall will ever be, yet he gets all the glamour because he has ONE good game, and picks up a random bouncing ball for a TD. (yet gives up the most TDs, yards, 1st downs, etc..)

I've said why I think Rogers needs to go, and it's based off of his attitude.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803626]I'm not sure why we as fans always feel the need to put down another player when talking about one player.[/quote]

Inability to form a valid argument in their own favor.

Seriously, who can defend Carlos? :D

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803630][B]No, I think we both agreed. You are just putting too much priority emphasizes on the play itself when in fact the play may have never occurred had it not been for a lucky bounce. So that sole "spectacular individual play" relied on pure luck.[/B]

To say that "technically pretty much everything is luck" is beyond false. It does take a lot of luck (with injuries/ball bouncing/etc) to win the Super Bowl, and I've heard countless coaches even say so. Better to be lucky than not.


This goes back to what SS says about people dissing Rogers because he drops INTs. Fans only care about the ESPN highlights, and many judge a players abilities by those highlights to. I think we are done here.[/quote]

One thing I will say: that ball probably wasn't staying in bounds forever so, he made his own luck by running it down: hustle isn't luck.

Also, I really could make the case that everything is luck, it's not beyond false. The Redskins are lucky DeAngelo Hall wasn't hurt before that game (luck, by your definition) or he would have never been there to make that play. There; now the entire play is based on the fact that Hall wasn't unlucky enough to be injured...lol

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=Monkeydad;803588]Creating turnovers is just as vital of a role for a CB as coverage. Think of it this way, how many lost opportunities and probably games have Rogers' drops caused? In this league, you can't give opponents second chances. That's what Carlos does. The real problem is not that he drops interceptions, it's how he drops EASY interceptions that hit him in the hands, chest, facemask...a professional football player should not be doing this, that often.

It has become a liability that really detracts from his decent coverage skills.

[YT]k0Cc-QDjCFY[/YT]

If not for Orakpo actually getting a rare holding call, that blunder would have cost of the game.[/quote]

I still remember what Cris Collinsworth said during the game, that "Carlos Rogers would be in the pro bowl every year if he could catch."

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=SBXVII;803550]I guess Rogers is yet another player who really doesn't get it. No one is trying to replace him. He can stay all he wants. But I'm betting he's going to ask for a mint and he's not worth it. Now if he's willing to sign another contract about the range of what he's making now then fine, but as other have said he's thinking payday and I'm guessing he might get a little humbled in the end. But that depends on the need at CB by other teams.[/quote]

It's not my intention to bad-mouth the guy because he may/or may not be leaving for greener pastures. If at this point in his career he's playing the game for the money and feels he may be able to make more someplace else...go for it, just don't become a Fred Smoot clone. Rogers does think he's better than Hall.

[url=http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/carlos_rogers_thinks_hes_better_than_deangelo_hall/4755982]Carlos Rogers Thinks He’s Better Than DeAngelo Hall | Yardbarker.com[/url]

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803626]I'm not sure why we as fans always feel the need to put down another player when talking about one player.[/quote]

I second that. Prove your points logically with vetted facts. Or, just give your opinion and present it as such. Trashing another player, who has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.....and who LIKES being in the B&G.....is low class at best.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803631]If this is in reference to anything I've said, I'm sick and tired of people bashing Rogers, yet hail D. Hall as if he's some hero. Rogers is more consistent at the CB spot than Hall will ever be, yet he gets all the glamour because he has ONE good game, and picks up a random bouncing ball for a TD. (yet gives up the most TDs, yards, 1st downs, etc..)

I've said why I think Rogers needs to go, and it's based off of his attitude.[/quote]

Not in reference to anything you said. Though Hall has had more than one good game...and even if it were just one, it's probably one more than Rogers :)

But I digress, I think the opinion of Hall is pretty mixed. However, if we must compare the fact is the one thing that Rogers simply doesn't do, the one thing that (in my opinion at least) keeps him from being the elite CB he wants to be paid as is that he doesn't catch the damn ball. And that is something Hall does do.

But I'd prefer to look at it regardless of Hall. Is Carlos Rogers' good enough and will he continue to be good enough to warrant a huge paycheck. In my opinion...no

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803645]Not in reference to anything you said. Though Hall has had more than one good game...and even if it were just one, it's probably one more than Rogers :)

But I digress, I think the opinion of Hall is pretty mixed. However, if we must compare the fact is the one thing that Rogers simply doesn't do, the one thing that (in my opinion at least) keeps him from being the elite CB he wants to be paid as is that he doesn't catch the damn ball. And that is something Hall does do.

But I'd prefer to look at it regardless of Hall. [B]Is Carlos Rogers' good enough and will he continue to be good enough to warrant a huge paycheck. In my opinion...no[/B][/quote]

I concur, but he's good enough to get an above avg. paycheck & I'd like to see him stay here w/one. Doesn't look like that will happen though.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/deangelo-hall-and-friend-respond-to-carlos-rogers/2011/05/19/AFtR8B7G_blog.html]DeAngelo Hall and friend respond to Carlos Rogers - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=freddyg12;803651]I concur, but he's good enough to get an above avg. paycheck & I'd like to see him stay here w/one. Doesn't look like that will happen though.[/quote]

He doesn't want above average, and that's his prerogative.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

Hall's coment to this was perfect. He might not be the best CB in the world but he has been a very stand up guy snse becoming a Skin.

Hall's Response

I was never focused on who was the #1 corner on our team. Just focused on tryna WIn Games! Hope all of my teammates feel the same way!....Definitely would trade all the personal rewards to bring a Championship back to DC and the Best Fans in the NFL!!...No player on our team or in the NFL for that matter can be successful w/ out the coaches and their teammates!

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=firstdown;803656]Hall's coment to this was perfect. He might not be the best CB in the world but he has been a very stand up guy snse becoming a Skin.

Hall's Response

I was never focused on who was the #1 corner on our team. Just focused on tryna WIn Games! Hope all of my teammates feel the same way!....Definitely would trade all the personal rewards to bring a Championship back to DC and the Best Fans in the NFL!!...No player on our team or in the NFL for that matter can be successful w/ out the coaches and their teammates![/quote]

I thought it was a good response as well. I know from what SS has told us that Rogers has been in some money troubles, but he really didn't need to say all of what he said. I'm sure there will be a market for him after Nnamdi. A team like the Lions could use help at corner.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=firstdown;803656]Hall's coment to this was perfect. He might not be the best CB in the world but he has been a very stand up guy snse becoming a Skin.

Hall's Response

I was never focused on who was the #1 corner on our team. Just focused on tryna WIn Games! Hope all of my teammates feel the same way!....Definitely would trade all the personal rewards to bring a Championship back to DC and the Best Fans in the NFL!!...No player on our team or in the NFL for that matter can be successful w/ out the coaches and their teammates![/quote]

Great response...but maybe he has a bit of a short-term memory

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/deangelo-hall/deangelo-hall.html]Redskins Insider - DeAngelo Hall says he'll track opponent's top wideout[/url]

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803666]Great response...but maybe he has a bit of a short-term memory

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/deangelo-hall/deangelo-hall.html]Redskins Insider - DeAngelo Hall says he'll track opponent's top wideout[/url][/quote]

...and that following week, he got smoked by a rookie QB and some scrub receivers from St. Louis. /facepalm

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803668]...and that following week, he got smoked by a rookie QB and some scrub receivers from St. Louis. /facepalm[/quote]

Just like the whole team.

I don't get this obsession with b*tching about just one player.


[quote=SmootSmack;803666]Great response...but maybe he has a bit of a short-term memory

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/deangelo-hall/deangelo-hall.html]Redskins Insider - DeAngelo Hall says he'll track opponent's top wideout[/url][/quote]

Yup, he needs to follow his own (recent) advice next season.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803666]Great response...but maybe he has a bit of a short-term memory

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/deangelo-hall/deangelo-hall.html]Redskins Insider - DeAngelo Hall says he'll track opponent's top wideout[/url][/quote]

You'll always hear me say I pay little to no attention to what some guys say, I do however pay strict attention to what they do.

I vividly recall the incident your link references and it doesn't stop there.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=Ruhskins;803669]Just like the whole team.

I don't get this obsession with b*tching about just one player.
[/quote]

Well, it basically was ONE player, who the week prior, is basically telling the coaches that you ****ed up by not putting me on the top WR, and pretty much throwing his teammates (reed/buchanon) under the bus. I expect that guy to come out and back up the talk that he's top notch, not get his ass roasted by sub-par Ram receivers and a rookie QB. For the record, I don't blame him solely for that loss because everybody was pretty much shitty in that game.

Hall is just another guy we need to move on from. He's part of the old Vinny regime that needs to go. Flashy FA guys that can't back up what they are being paid or what they are saying. I understand we can't at this time, but his time is coming.

I hope SirClintonPortis is right about our additions to the DL helping out D. Hall's game. I'm just glad Rogers is heading out the door. I think him quitting on the team to save himself (after he was cleared) for a contract totally turned me off on this guy. I just get a bit annoyed with so many people roasting the guy for dropping INTs and patting D. Hall. At least be consistent.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803680]Well, it basically was ONE player, who the week prior, is basically telling the coaches that you ****ed up by not putting me on the top WR, and pretty much throwing his teammates (reed/buchanon) under the bus. I expect that guy to come out and back up the talk that he's top notch, not get his ass roasted by sub-par Ram receivers and a rookie QB. For the record, I don't blame him solely for that loss because everybody was pretty much shitty in that game.

Hall is just another guy we need to move on from. He's part of the old Vinny regime that needs to go. Flashy FA guys that can't back up what they are being paid or what they are saying. I understand we can't at this time, but his time is coming.

I hope SirClintonPortis is right about our additions to the DL helping out D. Hall's game. I'm just glad Rogers is heading out the door. I think him quitting on the team to save himself (after he was cleared) for a contract totally turned me off on this guy. I just get a bit annoyed with so many people roasting the guy for dropping INTs and patting D. Hall. At least be consistent.[/quote]I would rather, at this point, move on from both Hall and Rogers than try to pick which one is more "deserving" of top money. Hall is starting to get towards the expensive years in his contract, the ones that he'll never be able to back up in his play.

On the other hand, you could give Rogers top ten money and get a bargain for a couple of years, but you'd either have a lot of deadcap in 2013 or 2014 (right when any rebuilding project would be starting to pay dividends), or you'd have a corner making top money who no longer has the ability to run with no. 1 wideouts like Hakeem Nicks, Jeremy Maclin, and Dez Bryant. I think Rogers is going to be one of the best free agent signings of the offseason for some contender, but I don't think it makes a lot of sense to pay him now. Vinny should have extended him at age 27 and not paid Hall so much money. We wouldn't have had a bottom third defense last year if he did that.

I'd like to see Barnes at one corner next year and Buchanon back on a one/two year deal as the second corner.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

[quote=jdlea;803590]Yeah, you're right, Hall did give up what could have been the game winner. However, I believe that play came after a Carlos Rogers dropped pick. An EASY pick that would have ended the game. Instead, him not catching it gave the Cowboys more shots at the end zone...but you're right, scoring the Skins' only touchdown totally didn't do anything for them in that one...Hall SUCKS!

I'm not going to sit here and act like Hall is a great player, but your blind hatred of him is really turning you into a broken record. Let me get this straight: you want to ditch the guy who won the team two games last year by scoring touchdowns/getting picks, says "this is my defense" and at least talks like he likes it in Washington and keep the guy who takes every chance he can to take shots at the team he plays for...that makes sense.

At the end of the day, they both have their deficiencies and neither one are all that good. Carlos can cover and Hall can change games when he's actually close enough to a receiver, or the football, to get a pick. Really, if they somehow melded into one player with Rogers' coverage skills and Hall's ability to catch and score once he has the ball they'd make a great corner. Instead, we have one who gambles too much and another who does a good job of coverage and breaking on the ball, he just can't catch it...unfortunately the latter never keeps his mouth shut and likes to lambaste his employer; I say let him walk.[/quote]I would point out that as we've trended away from good play to play pass defense and towards more big play based defense, the overall results have not improved any. It was Blache at first that wanted to build the defense around Hall. Hall wasn't any good in 2009, and in a lot of ways, he was worse in 2010, and we've never managed to sustain as a high turnover defense in part because none of the defensive backs, Hall, Landry, Rogers, or even linebackers (Fletcher/McIntosh) are consistent big play performers.

Rogers, I think, often gets lambasted for something that the Redskins as a group simply don't execute well enough at. DeAngelo Hall isn't a consistent big play performer. LaRon Landry hasn't been, although I hold out hope. Rocky McIntosh has just as many epic fails per opportunity as anyone in the league. People love Fletcher for his consistency, but he is as bad as anyone at screwing up the easy big play. Reed Doughty has the same issue.

I think it's unfortunate that Rogers gets a rap for not making enough easy plays. I don't think it's completely misguided to say that. He has a nice, long fail reel. And even at his peak, quarterbacks still threw fairly often at Rogers.

Problem is, letting Rogers walk isn't going to make this a big-play defense. You have to start tearing down the infrastructure: McIntosh, Hall, Doughty, Kareem Moore, and the like, and then I would hope that Landry develops into more than just a devastating hitter, and that Kevin Barnes can become more of a turnover guy than Hall ever was, and then that we can draft some guys to put around them. Because right now, we have a lot of defensive backs that just can't make a play when the team needs it.

Re: Rogers Ready to Move On
 

Rogers is probably not this loud if Hall isn't getting paid like a top 5 corner. If we can all agree that both corners have serious flaws and are comparable (in terms of impact from the CB position), then it's logical as to why Rogers feels disrespected.

The problem for Rogers is that contracts are now offered by a different entity, but yet his perception will always be "Skins vs. me."