Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

I think of Vince Young and go... "meh". Overrated? Underrated? More like, "well, I'm glad my team's fate isn't tied to the guy".

He's obviously so popular because of the Cinderella aspect of the Rose Bowl game, but I don't think he'll ever be a franchise QB. I always think of Young as a Mike Vick-style QB who's more dialed down on the run-first side and more dialed-up on the passing game.

And without the dog-killing and pot busts.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[quote=jsarno;367823][B]Nothing like overreacting eh matty?[/B]

Even if you sucked at your job, if you were making millions, would you retire?[/quote]

Kinda seems like what you're doing here. You jumped on here like this last game proved that the Titans are better off without VY or something.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;367826]If I were Tenn I'd trade him while people like you still thinks he can thrown and "win games" with his whopping 11-9 record. Then I'd go get a REAL Qb.[/QUOTE]

JSARNO, I think they should do a reality show where you become the GM of an NFL franchise. Seriously, I would pay anything to see that.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[quote=djnemo65;367980]JSARNO, I think they should do a reality show where you become the GM of an NFL franchise. Seriously, I would pay anything to see that.[/quote]

I'd pay to see a lot of people here try to run a franchise, or coach a team.

Hey, that might actually be a cool idea for a show, SmootSmack you need to bubble this up to some of your peeps at ESPN. ;)

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;367986]I'd pay to see a lot of people here try to run a franchise, or coach a team.

Hey, that might actually be a cool idea for a show, SmootSmack you need to bubble this up to some of your peeps at ESPN. ;)[/quote]


Hey, Millen won that contest FAIR AND SQUARE!

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=TheBigD;367894]As I was watching CBS and saw that the Titans were about to kick the winning FG, I was laughing and thinking to myself, Jsarno is going to have a field day if Collins wins this game for them. Who knows, maybe you are right after all.[/QUOTE]

LOL...I was practically salivating hoping Collins would win that game for them. HAHA.

Oh well, a lot of people can be told the sky is blue and they won't agree, it's just human nature to hate to change their own perceptions.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;367955]Kinda seems like what you're doing here. You jumped on here like this last game proved that the Titans are better off without VY or something.[/QUOTE]

You're right...I haven't been talking about this exact subject since last year or anything. :rolleyes:

This last game is just more proof you choose to ignore.

If it walks like a duck...oh what's the point, you aren't capable of looking at this argument objectively.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;367980]JSARNO, I think they should do a reality show where you become the GM of an NFL franchise. Seriously, I would pay anything to see that.[/QUOTE]

#1- Never said I'd make a better GM.
#2- if they did make a show I would sign up for it in a freakin minute.
#3- if it does happen and I do make it, I will charge you 1 million dollars because, and I quote you, "I would pay anything to see that".
#4- there are VERY FEW people in the world that knows football more than I do. I live it...all of it.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;369028]You're right...I haven't been talking about this exact subject since last year or anything. :rolleyes:

This last game is just more proof you choose to ignore.

If it walks like a duck...oh what's the point, you aren't capable of looking at this argument objectively.[/QUOTE]

You think they should start Collins the rest of the way?

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;369030]You think they should start Collins the rest of the way?[/QUOTE]

Honestly I think Collins is nothing special (said so in a previous post). I think if either of them are their permanent solutions they won't acheive much. I do think Collins earned the next start though regardless of Young's health. You can't argue with how the offense was the best ever in the Young era.
SO in short, I would say, he should start the next game no matter what, then I will reevaluate.

One thing that I have noticed no one has given credit to is Fisher and his staff. They are amazing, and should be given a world of credit. The most underrated coaching staff in the league IMO.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;369033]Honestly I think Collins is nothing special (said so in a previous post). I think if either of them are their permanent solutions they won't acheive much. I do think Collins earned the next start though regardless of Young's health. You can't argue with how the offense was the best ever in the Young era.
SO in short, I would say, he should start the next game no matter what, then I will reevaluate.

One thing that I have noticed no one has given credit to is Fisher and his staff. They are amazing, and should be given a world of credit. The most underrated coaching staff in the league IMO.[/QUOTE]

Fisher is a great coach, no question about it.

As to Collins, should we ignore the fact that he was pretty dreadful at the beginning of last year? How much credit should we give the defense, and special teams for last week's win? Granted the defense folded like a tent in the 4th quarter but they did have some key takeaways. And do you factor in VY's abilities as a rusher, or just ignore those?

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;369035]Fisher is a great coach, no question about it.

As to Collins, should we ignore the fact that he was pretty dreadful at the beginning of last year? How much credit should we give the defense, and special teams for last week's win? Granted the defense folded like a tent in the 4th quarter but they did have some key takeaways. And do you factor in VY's abilities as a rusher, or just ignore those?[/QUOTE]

The fact that Young can run means he gets consideration over Collins...if he couldn't run, then Young should never start another NFL game for anyone.

Just an interesting tid bit about his "dreadful" (which I do agree with FYI)season last year, he played in 3 games, and had 269 yards passing in week 3 which would have been a career high for Young. Also, do we ignore the fact that Collins has led a team to a super bowl? Or ignore the fact that he's thrown for 4000+ yards, and threw for 3000+ yards 6 consecutive seasons?

About credit to the defense...really? Last week was the only week they DIDN'T show up.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;369039]The fact that Young can run means he gets consideration over Collins...if he couldn't run, then Young should never start another NFL game for anyone.

Just an interesting tid bit about his "dreadful" (which I do agree with FYI)season last year, he played in 3 games, and had 269 yards passing in week 3 which would have been a career high for Young. Also, do we ignore the fact that Collins has led a team to a super bowl? Or ignore the fact that he's thrown for 4000+ yards, and threw for 3000+ yards 6 consecutive seasons?

About credit to the defense...really? Last week was the only week they DIDN'T show up.[/QUOTE]

You seem to take a lot of stock in yards passing as a benchmark for success don't you?

Regardless, the defense as I pointed out did not play great (particularly the 4th) but didn't they have 6 takeaways? And at least 3 put them deep in Houston territory?

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;369026]Oh well, a lot of people can be told the sky is blue and they won't agree, it's just human nature to hate to change their own perceptions.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, you simply don't know when to admit that you are wrong. :)

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;369216]Agreed, you simply don't know when to admit that you are wrong. :)[/QUOTE]

LOL. At least I make one hell of an argument.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;369044]You seem to take a lot of stock in yards passing as a benchmark for success don't you?[/quote]

I put a lot of stock into A LOT of stats. Such as what I have already mentioned, like his worst passer rating, his low yardage, his horrible td% etc. Also his average 11-9 record.

It seems some people including yourself put way too much stock on his scrambling ability.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

Here is a [URL="http://www.10vinceyoung.com/2007_site/index.html"]site[/URL] that shows how awesome Vince Young is ;) (couldn't resist)

Truthfully, Young is stinking it up today. They're still ahead though

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;369383]Here is a [URL="http://www.10vinceyoung.com/2007_site/index.html"]site[/URL] that shows how awesome Vince Young is ;) (couldn't resist)

Truthfully, Young is stinking it up today. They're still ahead though[/QUOTE]

LOL.
Yeah, I wonder how some will spin this game.
The Titans beat the Raiders 13-9 but got no help from Young with his 42 yards passing on 6 of 14 attempts. Only 11 yards on 7 carries too.

Culpepper had 4 turnovers...bout time to throw Russell in there and let him learn.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

I saw a lot of the game and I can say VY got no help from his WRs. Drops all over the place.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;369400]I saw a lot of the game and I can say VY got no help from his WRs. Drops all over the place.[/QUOTE]

Is there a way to see how many official drops they had? I can't seem to find a place where they keep that stat.

How many drops do you think they had? (keep in mind, just because the ball hits a hand doesn't mean it's a drop, a drop is something that is easily catchable, but not caught.)

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[quote=jsarno;369509]Is there a way to see how many official drops they had? I can't seem to find a place where they keep that stat.

How many drops do you think they had? (keep in mind, just because the ball hits a hand doesn't mean it's a drop, a drop is something that is easily catchable, but not caught.)[/quote]

I saw two on one drive, one coming in the end zone.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

Jsarno, I've got to wonder why you get so emotional about Vince Young and where your hatred of him comes from.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;369702]Jsarno, I've got to wonder why you get so emotional about Vince Young and where your hatred of him comes from.[/QUOTE]

Well, I do live in Texas Longhorn country.

Again, I don't hate him...just his game. He's the most overrated player since Vick came out of college, and a top 5 ever.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;369400]I saw a lot of the game and I can say VY got no help from his WRs. Drops all over the place.[/quote]Then you also saw just how pathetic a majority of his throws were?

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;369723]Well, I do live in Texas Longhorn country.

Again, I don't hate him...just his game. He's the most overrated player since Vick came out of college, and a top 5 ever.[/QUOTE]

In college he was an absolute beast. But, if you don't like the Longhorns I can understand why you don't like him as a player.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;369779]In college he was an absolute beast. But, if you don't like the Longhorns I can understand why you don't like him as a player.[/QUOTE]

I think it really has more to do with how everyone put him on a pedastal last year.
I am not a big fan of Texas that's for sure, but I didn't really hate his game in college...it grew from the day he made the Titans teams to now. He's really just not very good.
So maybe the seed was planted in college, and after everyone loved him last year that made it grow to what it is today.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;369749]Then you also saw just how pathetic a majority of his throws were?[/QUOTE]

I didn't watch the game...but I would wager your comments hold true since he usually has poor throws.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

IMO Vince Young is the most underrated player in the NFL. All he does is win, yet he's bashed nonstop.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

When it comes to grading young QBs, I don't look at stats . . . I look at Ws and how they guy plays in the 4th quarter under pressure. I think Vince Young is the best QB from last year's crop . . . so far.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=SuperFan99;371190]When it comes to grading young QBs, I don't look at stats . . . I look at Ws and how they guy plays in the 4th quarter under pressure. I think Vince Young is the best QB from last year's crop . . . so far.[/QUOTE]

Good to know...he's now 12 out of 21 in terms of wins. (not bad, but not great). He has a 78.4 passer rating in the 4th quarter this year, and a 70.5 passer rating in the 4th in 06. Not a very good couple of gauges to judge him by.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[quote=HughHog;370723]IMO Vince Young is the most underrated player in the NFL. All he does is win, yet he's bashed nonstop.[/quote]It is because there are people like Jsarno (not intended as insult) who care a good deal about stats. Marino did not win an SB but was voted to the HOF because he had good stats and records that are being broken one after another.

I am with you, he is an underrated player. But shhhh...be quiet, don't let Jsarno know you think he is UNDERRATED, that might give him a heart attack. :D

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[quote=jsarno;369509]Is there a way to see how many official drops they had? I can't seem to find a place where they keep that stat.

How many drops do you think they had? (keep in mind, just because the ball hits a hand doesn't mean it's a drop, a drop is something that is easily catchable, but not caught.)[/quote]

[url=http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/index.asp]washingtonpost.com[/url]

You can't break down individual games with this, but you can look at totals in targets and "passes not caught" which is not actually the same as a "drop" since it includes both incomplete passes the receiver couldn't catch and drops the receiver should have caught but didn't.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

Just because I know you guys have been waiting for this:
Vince Young threw for a meezly 110, 0 tds, 2 ints. 25 yards rushing and 1 td.

His qb rating is down to 61.5.
In 7 games, he has thrown for only 855 yards, 3 tds and 8 ints.

FYI, he has a 54.8% comp % in the 4th quarter this year, the worst of all 4 quarters. Also and unimpressive 71.0 rating in the 4th.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

Both have the same weak supporting cast, though vince has a better group of OL right now

campbell maybe is a better passer at this stage, but vince has more intangibles,leadership , a better athlete and improviser which translates into win in the field.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

The Titans win because they have the #2 defense in the league, with the #1 rush defense. They have only allowed 12.6 points per game in the games where Vince Young started. Remember Kyle Orton in 2005? He won tons of games, but nobody said it was because of him.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

not a big fan of Vince but they do keep on winning. Think he a ok QB

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

[QUOTE=steveo395;375268]The Titans win because they have the #2 defense in the league, with the #1 rush defense. They have only allowed 12.6 points per game in the games where Vince Young started. Remember Kyle Orton in 2005? He won tons of games, but nobody said it was because of him.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

In his second year, he is as good as any QB in the NFL after Brady/Manning, he is in the mix with Romo, Big Ben, Favre, Eli, Brees, etc. I think he is the next big QB on the rise, and will be looked at as # 1 in 5 or so years.

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

vince young is the most over rated qb in the league

Re: Vince Young overrated?
 

nope, it's Eli