Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1276130]Washington made the Lions a significant offer for QB
Matthew Stafford, per sources. One person familiar with the situation said the WFT offer included more immediate help than what Lions landed. Detroit went another way. The search for a QB rolls on.

Ben Standig[/quote]

This is what I was referring to earlier:

Glad it wasn't us, they probably would have included Payne or Allen or Sweat, plus 2 1st's and a second. I would have been pissed.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

This would be my order for trade targets if that is the way they choose to go. I'm not interested in anyone else. I'm barely interested in anyone after Carr, but I think Darnold and Hurts at least have potential.

Deshaun Watson $10.5m cap hit in 2021
Derek Carr $19.6m cap hit in 2021
Sam Darnold $4.7m cap hit in 2021
Jalen Hurts $883K cap hit in 2021

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1276091]Rams havent had a 1st rd pick since 2016, but are in the playoffs every year. But some refuse to believe that Proven players > picks. Id trade my 1st rd pick for the next 5 years if it meant Deshaun Watson was coming to my team

Posy off Twitter. Makes sense[/quote]

And you would never have enough talent around him to win anything. He is a good not great QB, especially as pocket passer.

Rams have a solid core with talent EVERYWHERE except QB, such a trade much more defensible for them, especially getting to dump the AWFUL Goff contract, he NEVER should have been extended.
Ramsey is a HOF-caliber shutdown corner, sound trade. Not opposed to ALL trades for picks, Ramsey HOF player in prime for two late 1st rounders.
They traded a total of 2 1sts (2016-2017), 2 2nds, 2 3rds for Geoff, who they just traded, and a 1st for Brandin Cook, neither player still on roster. They are mortgaging the future to win a SB next 1-2 years. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't, but they again have a truly stacked roster and are honestly just a QB away from contending. We don't and aren't.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1276133]This would be my order for trade targets if that is the way they choose to go. I'm not interested in anyone else. I'm barely interested in anyone after Carr, but I think Darnold and Hurts at least have potential.

Deshaun Watson $10.5m cap hit in 2021
Derek Carr $19.6m cap hit in 2021
Sam Darnold $4.7m cap hit in 2021
Jalen Hurts $883K cap hit in 2021[/quote]

Drafted QB: 2.3M cap hit maximum for 4 years.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

The clear sign I think is, Rivera isn't waiting for the draft to figure out the QB situation, if at all possible.

I expect us to be in the discussion for a lot of QBs until we land one.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Scalper;1276134]And you would never have enough talent around him to win anything. He is a good not great QB, especially as pocket passer.

Rams have a solid core with talent EVERYWHERE except QB, such a trade much more defensible for them, especially getting to dump the AWFUL Goff contract, he NEVER should have been extended.
Ramsey is a HOF-caliber shutdown corner, sound trade. Not opposed to ALL trades for picks, Ramsey HOF player in prime for two late 1st rounders.
They traded a total of 2 1sts (2016-2017), 2 2nds, 2 3rds for Geoff, who they just traded, and a 1st for Brandin Cook, neither player still on roster. They are mortgaging the future to win a SB next 1-2 years. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't, but they again have a truly stacked roster and are honestly just a QB away from contending. We don't and aren't.[/quote]

They may be stacked but they have a bit of a salary cap issue. With not a lot of room for relief. They are the definition of a boom/bust play. If they don't hit the SB next year they will blow the whole thing up.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Scalper;1276135]Drafted QB: 2.3M cap hit maximum for 4 years.[/quote]

Did you see the stat posted earlier. Of the 22 qb's drafted in the 1st round from 2009 to 2016 ZERO are on their original team.

From 2017 on you have:
Tribulsky(2017, #2) - DUD
Watson (2017,#12)- Star with attitude
Mahones (2017#10) - possibly the next GOAT

Mayfield (2018,#1) - Mixed
Darnold (2018, #3) - DUD
Allen (2018, #7) - Mixed but rising
Rosen (2018, #10) - BUST
Jackson(2018, #32) - Star

Murray (2019, #1) - Rising with ?
Jones (2019,#6) - Mixed
Haskins(2019, #15) - BUST

So depending on how you rank them, out of 11 1st round qb's since 2017
you have
2 to 3 elite (Mahones, Jackson, Watson)
2 to 4 mixed but definitely need time to grow (Mayfield, Allen, Jones, Murray)
3 to 4 busts or duds (Darnold, Tribulsky, Haskins, Rosen)

Drafting a qb, even in the first round is no guarantee - even with good scouting, evaluation and sound FO choices.

Drafting is the solution to ALOT of team issues, but QB talent is best examined on the NFL field of play and if you can get a proven QB it is worth trading for.

That said, the level of proven talent available now dropped significantly with Stafford gone

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1276138]Did you see the stat posted earlier. Of the 22 qb's drafted in the 1st round from 2009 to 2016 ZERO are on their original team.

From 2017 on you have:
Tribulsky(2017, #2) - DUD
Watson (2017,#12)- Star with attitude
Mahones (2017#10) - possibly the next GOAT

Mayfield (2018,#1) - Mixed
Darnold (2018, #3) - DUD
Allen (2018, #7) - Mixed but rising
Rosen (2018, #10) - BUST
Jackson(2018, #32) - Star

Murray (2019, #1) - Rising with ?
Jones (2019,#6) - Mixed
Haskins(2019, #15) - BUST

So depending on how you rank them, out of 11 1st round qb's since 2017
you have
2 to 3 elite (Mahones, Jackson, Watson)
2 to 4 mixed but definitely need time to grow (Mayfield, Allen, Jones, Murray)
3 to 4 busts or duds (Darnold, Tribulsky, Haskins, Rosen)

Drafting a qb, even in the first round is no guarantee - even with good scouting, evaluation and sound FO choices.

Drafting is the solution to ALOT of team issues, but QB talent is best examined on the NFL field of play and if you can get a proven QB it is worth trading for.

That said, the level of proven talent available now dropped significantly with Stafford gone[/quote]

Tell that to Brady, Russell Wilson, Prescott, Cousins. You can find a diamond in the draft.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1276139]Tell that to Brady, Russell Wilson, Prescott, Cousins. You can find a diamond in the draft.[/QUOTE]I didnt say you couldn't. BUT picking a qb in the 1st is no guarantee of success. And those diamonds minus Wilson still need time and stability to develop.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

Stafford is out.

Who do y'all have for your next option (assume the draft is out)?

I'll take Fitzgerald on a 1 year deal, with the assumption we keep Heinicke/Allen.

2nd place - A 2nd for Carr (maybe even a 1st, I'll flip flop on this frequently)

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1276138]Did you see the stat posted earlier. Of the 22 qb's drafted in the 1st round from 2009 to 2016 ZERO are on their original team.

From 2017 on you have:
Tribulsky(2017, #2) - DUD
Watson (2017,#12)- Star with attitude
Mahones (2017#10) - possibly the next GOAT

Mayfield (2018,#1) - Mixed
Darnold (2018, #3) - DUD
Allen (2018, #7) - Mixed but rising
Rosen (2018, #10) - BUST
Jackson(2018, #32) - Star

Murray (2019, #1) - Rising with ?
Jones (2019,#6) - Mixed
Haskins(2019, #15) - BUST

So depending on how you rank them, out of 11 1st round qb's since 2017
you have
2 to 3 elite (Mahones, Jackson, Watson)
2 to 4 mixed but definitely need time to grow (Mayfield, Allen, Jones, Murray)
3 to 4 busts or duds (Darnold, Tribulsky, Haskins, Rosen)

Drafting a qb, even in the first round is no guarantee - even with good scouting, evaluation and sound FO choices.

Drafting is the solution to ALOT of team issues, but QB talent is best examined on the NFL field of play and if you can get a proven QB it is worth trading for.

That said, the level of proven talent available now dropped significantly with Stafford gone[/quote]

That is why you must commit to spending multiple picks over multiple years to find a true franchise QB. This means trading up is generally unwise, though that is how Chiefs got Mahomes, but even then they didn't trade a King's Ransom to move up to #1. They were at #27, they traded that pick, plus a 3rd, plus #1 next year which ended up being #22. Less than many people wanted to give up for Stafford. There is a difference between THE DAN deciding to trade up for a player (RGIII), and pro scouts or competent FOs.

Finally, your analysis is skewed. because it does not consider where all the successful NFL QBs came from. One might draw many conclusions from your analysis, but one is that you don't have to draft in the 1st round, top-15 especially, to find a franchise QB. What separates the booms and busts? How you support and develop a QB is also critical. Does it really matter who the Skins drafted at QB, or the Jags, or Browns, given what dysfunctional messes they have been? Virtually no QB had chance of success, how do you factor that into stats? Teams consistently reach on QBs out of desperation also.

It would be one thing if we were loaded with talent all over our roster and only a QB was missing to contend for SB, but that is NOT this team, not by a LONG shot. We should continue to draft and develop talent, including at QB, and continue targeting QBs in draft we think have franchise-QB potential. This is less glamorous, less immediate gratification than the trading the farm modality all the homers seem to love, but it is the sound approach. So the real question, now that the Rams saved us from ourselves, is what QBs outside the top-4 in the draft would make sense at #19 or in the 2nd round? What QB makes sense later in draft in 5th or 6th round? What 2 QBs should we draft this year early round and late round?

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=Scalper;1276144]That is why you must commit to spending multiple picks over multiple years to find a true franchise QB. [B]This means trading up is generally unwise, though that is how Chiefs got Mahomes, but even then they didn't trade a King's Ransom to move up to #1. They were at #27, they traded that pick, plus a 3rd, plus #1 next year which ended up being #22. Less than many people wanted to give up for Stafford[/B]. There is a difference between THE DAN deciding to trade up for a player (RGIII), and pro scouts or competent FOs.

Finally, your analysis is skewed. because it does not consider where all the successful NFL QBs came from. One might draw many conclusions from your analysis, but one is that you don't have to draft in the 1st round, top-15 especially, to find a franchise QB. What separates the booms and busts? How you support and develop a QB is also critical. Does it really matter who the Skins drafted at QB, or the Jags, or Browns, given what dysfunctional messes they have been? Virtually no QB had chance of success, how do you factor that into stats? Teams consistently reach on QBs out of desperation also.

It would be one thing if we were loaded with talent all over our roster and only a QB was missing to contend for SB, but that is NOT this team, not by a LONG shot. We should continue to draft and develop talent, including at QB, and continue targeting QBs in draft we think have franchise-QB potential. This is less glamorous, less immediate gratification than the trading the farm modality all the homers seem to love, but it is the sound approach. So the real question, now that the Rams saved us from ourselves, is what QBs outside the top-4 in the draft would make sense at #19 or in the 2nd round? What QB makes sense later in draft in 5th or 6th round? What 2 QBs should we draft this year early round and late round?[/quote]

They traded two 1st round picks, and a 3rd round pick for Mahomes, and he was the 10th pick in the draft not number one. I don't remember anyone on this forum suggesting that we should trade that much for Stafford.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1276138]Did you see the stat posted earlier. Of the 22 qb's drafted in the 1st round from 2009 to 2016 ZERO are on their original team.

From 2017 on you have:
Tribulsky(2017, #2) - DUD
Watson (2017,#12)- Star with attitude
Mahones (2017#10) - possibly the next GOAT

Mayfield (2018,#1) - Mixed
Darnold (2018, #3) - DUD
Allen (2018, #7) - Mixed but rising
Rosen (2018, #10) - BUST
Jackson(2018, #32) - Star

Murray (2019, #1) - Rising with ?
Jones (2019,#6) - Mixed
Haskins(2019, #15) - BUST

So depending on how you rank them, out of 11 1st round qb's since 2017
you have
2 to 3 elite (Mahones, Jackson, Watson)
2 to 4 mixed but definitely need time to grow (Mayfield, Allen, Jones, Murray)
3 to 4 busts or duds (Darnold, Tribulsky, Haskins, Rosen)

Drafting a qb, even in the first round is no guarantee - even with good scouting, evaluation and sound FO choices.

Drafting is the solution to ALOT of team issues, but QB talent is best examined on the NFL field of play and if you can get a proven QB it is worth trading for.

That said, the level of proven talent available now dropped significantly with Stafford gone[/quote]

In the long run I rather josh Allen then Lamar. Lamars star is already dulling, he gets one serious injury to his legs he is fucked.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

JMO I'd sign Tyrod Taylor and have TH and KA battle it out in camp for the starting job. I would still sign a QB in the later rounds. I would bring back Steven Montez.

Re: WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1276143]Stafford is out.

Who do y'all have for your next option (assume the draft is out)?

I'll take Fitzgerald on a 1 year deal, with the assumption we keep Heinicke/Allen.

2nd place - A 2nd for Carr (maybe even a 1st, I'll flip flop on this frequently)[/quote]


My list is of next possible QBs in rank order:

Want:
Watson (not going to happen)
Dak (doubtful)
Carr (probably not available)

Don’t want but could live with:
Darnold
Hurts
Bridgewater
Ryan
Taylor

Don’t want under any circumstance:
Garopolo
Trubisky
Winston
Mariota
Newton
Wentz