Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Ruhskins;666426]And I think Landry wouldn't mind leaving, whereas Cooley would. Not that this should be a deal-breaker, but typically teams have traded players that they were not too happy with (but are still talented).[/quote]

Landry would, I believe, be on the first train outta here if he could go work for GW again.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

agreed there.

Oh, and CRedskins, I wasn't trying to be an ass, I was just projecting thats what I hope will happen, like I know what is right for this tea better than allen and shanny. lol, and yes, I did want your response!!!

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;666428]Landry would, I believe, be on the first train outta here if he could go work for GW again.[/quote]
[url=http://www.neworleanssaints.com/Articles/2009/12/LaRon%20Landry.aspx]New Orleans Saints - LaRon Landry[/url]

[quote]
[B][I]Q: You played your first year under [URL="http://www.neworleanssaints.com/Team/Coaches/People/Gregg%20Williams.aspx"]Gregg Williams[/URL]. What can you tell us you learned from him?[/I][/B]


[B]LaRon Landry:[/B] “He’s going to get everybody to play together and play to the best of their ability. He’s like a perfectionist and one thing he’s going to do is he’s going to blitz you. You don’t know where it’s coming from. That’s one thing I like about his defense.”


[B][I]Q: How much fun did you have playing for him?[/I][/B]

[B]LaRon Landry:[/B] “Most definitely. I loved it. He’s one of my favorite coaches.”
[I][B]
....

[/B][/I][B][I]Q: Being a local guy, do you feel good for the Saints?[/I][/B]

[B]LaRon Landry:[/B] “Yes, growing up in New Orleans, I’ve always been a Saints fan. Watching those guys win and dealing with what we’re going through right now and not having such a great season, combined with the hometown team winning. I’m happy to play those guys this week to play an 11-0 team and look for this week being their first loss.”[/quote]

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Man screw Landry in his ear. He isn't squat and everyone knows it. Come on really?! Landry is no different than the rest of the bag nasties on the D.

"Yeah, so and so is this. So and so is that." My logic says they're a 4-12 D. These guys are a bunch of bums, and they're going to be a bunch of effing bums until they start winning again! Because a winner is the opposite of a bum. That's my yard stick and these boys don't measure up.

Tell me Shanny wouldn't trade any of these guys, even Orakpo!? CP is some how a crown jewel to some fans, yet Shanny traded his ass.

One transaction epitomizes the difference between the incoming regime and the one that's still unemployed. Or has cousin Vinny found work yet? Some how I forgot to care.

Let me ask you guys a question. Does Landry, Hanesworth, or Orakpo play OT?

I can name other members of other team's O-line. Can other team's fans say the same for ours? No! Why? Any half-wit schmuck sucking his thumb knows that one.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;666375]Sounds great, Vinny! I think that improving the current Super Bowl Champion and a conference opponent is a great idea. Let's throw in a 2nd and 6th too so they don't shop around...

This Laron Landry bashing is officially in the retarded stage.

Someone give me one team that he wouldn't start immediately on. In fact he would probably be the starting FS or SS on almost every team in the league.[/quote]

Really? Ok let's begin. First the list of teams Landry definitely wouldn't start at either safety spot:

Saints
Colts
Steelers
Ravens
Cards
Packers
Jets

Next there's a bunch of teams Laron would have to fight for a spot:

Pats
Chargers
Niners
Dolphins
Raiders

But I think the larger point is most franchises wouldn't allow a player to embarrass himself and the franchise the way Landry has. Hey, if you want a player who's notorious for cheap shots (especially on players going out of bounce), getting trucked by opposing RBs (like Jacobs) and avoiding contact like the plague (especially against hard hitting RBs like Michael Turner) then Landry makes a great starter. And that's only during live play! Just wait till the absurd antics start :)

Realistically I can't see many teams in the league having much interest in Landry. I doubt we'd get more than a 4th round pick for him.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Question: Is Dockery fit for the Zone blocking scheme? And if he isn't and since Chris Kuper is and Denver wants bigger OLineman, do you think they would consider a trade of some sorts of us trading Dock for Kuper? I think it would be a pretty fair trade.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;666491]Question: Is Dockery fit for the Zone blocking scheme? And if he isn't and since Chris Kuper is and Denver wants bigger OLineman, do you think they would consider a trade of some sorts of us trading Dock for Kuper? I think it would be a pretty fair trade.[/quote]

Not really. He's actually pretty good on the first level but he struggles to get to the second level and in a ZBS you want that as it helps break off those big runs that you want to see (10 yard +)

Here see for yourself:
[quote]Grade: 72 | Key


Comment: Dockery is one of the most consistent and durable players in the league. He has excellent size, strength and limited-area athleticism. [COLOR="RoyalBlue"]He has great power and punch at the point of attack as a zone run-blocker,[/COLOR] while having the strength and size to anchor versus interior bull rushers.

He is at his best in a limited area. He does a good job of locking on and staying connected with proper hand use and leg drive.[COLOR="red"] He isn't great on the second level or in space to hit his target. [/COLOR]He will overextend at times and tends to lose his technique toward the end of the contest.

Dockery is a competitive player, but may have some conditioning concerns that affect his play late in the game. [COLOR="Red"]His lateral agility is limited [/COLOR]and quick defenders are tough for him to contend with. He isn't great versus counter moves inside and needs to engage defenders early in the play to be successful. Dockery has continued to improve his overall play as an offensive guard and with more consistency he could become a premiere lineman.
[/quote]

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;666488]Really? Ok let's begin. First the list of teams Landry definitely wouldn't start at either safety spot:

Saints
Colts
Steelers
Ravens
Cards
Packers
Jets

Next there's a bunch of teams Laron would have to fight for a spot:

Pats
Chargers
Niners
Dolphins
Raiders

But I think the larger point is most franchises wouldn't allow a player to embarrass himself and the franchise the way Landry has. Hey, if you want a player who's notorious for cheap shots (especially on players going out of bounce), getting trucked by opposing RBs (like Jacobs) and avoiding contact like the plague (especially against hard hitting RBs like Michael Turner) then Landry makes a great starter. And that's only during live play! Just wait till the absurd antics start :)

Realistically I can't see many teams in the league having much interest in Landry. I doubt we'd get more than a 4th round pick for him.[/quote]


Your list of teams is pretty funny at first glance. I will have fun ripping that apart when I get off work...

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;666565]Your list of teams is pretty funny at first glance. I will have fun ripping that apart when I get off work...[/quote]

Be my guest...

The first group is pretty obvious. The second list sorta follows this idea that you never replace a hungry, bruising safety w/ a guy who misses a lot and avoids contact. Honestly I can't tell you the name of the safeties for Oakland, Miami or San Diego. What I can say is I watched games over the last season where safeties from these teams put the hurt on like Laron never has or will. Particularly the kid from Oakland...that dude is fierce.

But let's stop w/ the nonsense about "Laron's talent puts him in another category" bullsh*t. It's just become code for making excuses about a player who has some obvious issues that go way beyond technique or coaching. A kid who starts diving to the turf to avoid contact or taking a bizarre angle so contact doesn't happen till the play is out of bounce...there's no place in the NFL for it.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Let's also understand that we unfortunately are in a position in large part due to poor return on previous trades (TJ Duckett!!!) that we are a last place team and should use our best assets to help us build a long-term winner. That means either that player is part of the future or you use that player to help get other players to be part of your future. You're going to get a lot more in a Laron Landry trade than a Reed Doughty deal

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

What can we get for Landry? I say just keep him and hope he plays better!

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=LandrySlice;666827]What can we get for Landry? I say just keep him and hope he plays better![/quote]

A ham sandwich.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;666828]A ham sandwich.[/quote]

Please Trample, don't undersell Landry. We could at least get one with onions......and garlic.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;666829]Please Trample, don't undersell Landry. We could at least get one with onions......and garlic.[/quote]

Perhaps, but not with mustard.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;666812]Be my guest...

The first group is pretty obvious. The second list sorta follows this idea that you never replace a hungry, bruising safety w/ a guy who misses a lot and avoids contact. Honestly I can't tell you the name of the safeties for Oakland, Miami or San Diego. What I can say is I watched games over the last season where safeties from these teams put the hurt on like Laron never has or will. Particularly the kid from Oakland...that dude is fierce.

But let's stop w/ the nonsense about "Laron's talent puts him in another category" bullsh*t. It's just become code for making excuses about a player who has some obvious issues that go way beyond technique or coaching. A kid who starts diving to the turf to avoid contact or taking a bizarre angle so contact doesn't happen till the play is out of bounce...there's no place in the NFL for it.[/quote]

Let me know where I can go to get back the 30 minutes that it took for me to figure out that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I looked at every teams safety tandem and Arizona is the only one where you are even close. And that is assuming that Rolle stays which doesn't seem likely.

So is hitting people "out of bounce" avoiding contact? It taking on 280 pounds Brandon Jacobs avoiding contact? Was he avoiding contact when he destroyed everything that moved in Dallas?

Which flavor of haterade is your favorite?

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;666845]Let me know where I can go to get back the 30 minutes that it took for me to figure out that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I looked at every teams safety tandem and Arizona is the only one where you are even close. And that is assuming that Rolle stays which doesn't seem likely.

So is hitting people "out of bounce" avoiding contact? It taking on 280 pounds Brandon Jacobs avoiding contact? Was he avoiding contact when he destroyed everything that moved in Dallas?

Which flavor of haterade is your favorite?[/quote]

Thanks for the late night laugh :)

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

I'm more of a morning laugh person, it really sets the mood of the day

oh and morning sex too

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

heard len pasquerelli (sp?) talking on 105.7 the fan in baltimore. he said that he has heard that the skins want to bring in a veteran LT for the next year or two to allow them to take time developing and grooming a young LT.

for what its worth since.

seems we really only have 2 options at LT:

1 - draft a LT in the 1st or 2nd and have him start right away

or

2 - sign a veteran LT, draft a LT in the 2nd round or later to develop

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=LandrySlice;666827]What can we get for Landry? I say just keep him and hope he plays better![/quote]

Free dinner at a five-star restaurant for six-months.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Wow, cant believe this. I thought that Williams is as bad as any lineman we have had.

On Williams: "Mike showed a tremendous work ethic and willingness to do whatever the team asked of him, and those are two of the traits we're looking for in Redskins players. We believe that he's only scratched the surface of his abilities so far, and look forward to seeing what he can do after a full offseason in our program."

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;670146]Wow, cant believe this. I thought that Williams is as bad as any lineman we have had.

On Williams: "Mike showed a tremendous work ethic and willingness to do whatever the team asked of him, and those are two of the traits we're looking for in Redskins players. We believe that he's only scratched the surface of his abilities so far, and look forward to seeing what he can do after a full offseason in our program."[/quote]

Inside space eater?

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

On MWilliams, I liked it when they gave him a shot, he showed grit and determination, and for someone out so long, didn't embarrass himself (to my eyes) so give him the shot. Like Lotus said, don't guarantee money, and let him prove himself if not cut'em. Works for me.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;666812]Be my guest...

The first group is pretty obvious. The second list sorta follows this idea that you never replace a hungry, bruising safety w/ a guy who misses a lot and avoids contact. Honestly I can't tell you the name of the safeties for Oakland, Miami or San Diego. What I can say is I watched games over the last season where safeties from these teams put the hurt on like Laron never has or will. Particularly the kid from Oakland...that dude is fierce.

But let's stop w/ the nonsense about "Laron's talent puts him in another category" bullsh*t. It's just become code for making excuses about a player who has some obvious issues that go way beyond technique or coaching. A kid who starts diving to the turf to avoid contact or taking a bizarre angle so contact doesn't happen till the play is out of bounce...there's no place in the NFL for it.[/quote]


DAMN, that's all I go to say about that!! That's real talk. Cut Landry.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Williams had a lot to overcome in a short period of time, I thought he was up and down last year. The coaches obviously see some potential there so I'll defer to their opinion. At least this year he can work on technique instead of auditioning for the biggest loser.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Mattyk;670170]Williams had a lot to overcome in a short period of time, I thought he was up and down last year. The coaches obviously see some potential there so [B][/B][B]I'll defer to their opinion[[/B]. At least this year he can work on technique instead of auditioning for the biggest loser.[/quote]

Exactly!

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Any word on how Chad Clifton and Tony Pasho's are doing with their skins visit? I heard Clifton is just coming here to get the packers price up.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;670244]Any word on how Chad Clifton and Tony Pasho's are doing with their skins visit? I heard Clifton is just coming here to get the packers price up.[/quote]

I wouldn't want him. Would you?

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

I've been hearing more and more about Bruce Campbell. Anyone have the schimmy? This draft couldn't have come at a better time. We need a whole new o-line and the draft is DEEP.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Mattyk;670170]Williams had a lot to overcome in a short period of time, [B]I thought he was up and down last year[/B]. The coaches obviously see some potential there so I'll defer to their opinion. At least this year he can work on technique instead of auditioning for the biggest loser.[/quote]

We def saw Mike Williams struggle off and on but personally I'm willing to cut him slack because the musical chairs gig probably made it even harder to adjust after all the time outside the football. I think w/ continued commitment and the Shanny brand of oline he's a strong candidate to start at RG or be a consistent backup at RG/RT.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;670256]We def saw Mike Williams struggle off and on but personally I'm willing to cut him slack because the musical chairs gig probably made it even harder to adjust after all the time outside the football. I think w/ continued commitment and the Shanny brand of oline he's a strong candidate to start at RG or be a consistent backup at RG/RT.[/quote]


Agree he's still some what young and he was an Ex-1st round pick.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;670244]Any word on how Chad Clifton and Tony Pasho's are doing with their skins visit? I heard Clifton is just coming here to get the packers price up.[/quote]

Clifton Stays with the Pack [url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35733365/ns/sports-player_news/]Packers T Clifton stays in GB for $20 million - NFL- nbcsports.msnbc.com[/url]

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Man, I just had a nightmare. Mike Williams at RT and Stephan Heyer at LT.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;670300]Man, I just had a nightmare. Mike Williams at RT and Stephan Heyer at LT.[/quote]

I don't believe that Washington signed Williams to be a tackle today but the fact that he can play tackle makes him more valuable (typically it is ideal if a reserve lineman can play more than one position in a pinch).

Here is my take on Mike Williams. First, Allen and Shanahan have ZERO ties to Big Mike. I think they proved yesterday that if you can't help the team, you won't be on the team. So, they must think that Mike deserves a spot on the team.

Now, I thought Doc Walker (someone who is an expert on line play) broke down Mike Williams very well today. Big Mike as a tackle is a liability. I think everyone will admit that. However, as a guard he performed much better. He showed signs of being a mauler in the run game and the fact that you have a guard with tackle skills helps in pass pro.

Now, what will be different this year? His body will be accustomed to being 340 - 360 as opposed to being 450. There is a transition period for people who gain a lot of weight or lose a lot of weight in a short period of time.

MOST IMPORTANTLY for him to be a contributor, he has to stay healthy. He wasn't healthy last year but still played almost the whole year.

Another key, they have to get a quality right tackle. Williams struggled but he had no help with Heyer next to him. Heyer can help in a pinch, but if he is a starting lineman for us, we have no chance long term.

Why am I hopeful that Mike Williams can help us? First, he has pedigree. He was an all-american at a premier program. Next, he actually has potential to improve. He has another full year to train and get in football shape.

I am hopeful for big things this year from him, ideally as a reserve. Unfortunately, we may need him to start some games though...

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;670311]I don't believe that Washington signed Williams to be a tackle today but the fact that he can play tackle makes him more valuable (typically it is ideal if a reserve lineman can play more than one position in a pinch).

Here is my take on Mike Williams. First, Allen and Shanahan have ZERO ties to Big Mike. I think they proved yesterday that if you can't help the team, you won't be on the team. So, they must think that Mike deserves a spot on the team.

Now, I thought Doc Walker (someone who is an expert on line play) broke down Mike Williams very well today. Big Mike as a tackle is a liability. I think everyone will admit that. However, as a guard he performed much better. He showed signs of being a mauler in the run game and the fact that you have a guard with tackle skills helps in pass pro.

Now, what will be different this year? His body will be accustomed to being 340 - 360 as opposed to being 450. There is a transition period for people who gain a lot of weight or lose a lot of weight in a short period of time.

MOST IMPORTANTLY for him to be a contributor, he has to stay healthy. He wasn't healthy last year but still played almost the whole year.

Another key, they have to get a quality right tackle. Williams struggled but he had no help with Heyer next to him. Heyer can help in a pinch, but if he is a starting lineman for us, we have no chance long term.

Why am I hopeful that Mike Williams can help us? First, he has pedigree. He was an all-american at a premier program. Next, he actually has potential to improve. He has another full year to train and get in football shape.

I am hopeful for big things this year from him, ideally as a reserve. Unfortunately, we may need him to start some games though...[/quote]
I think you are riight. I am a little suprised that we have heard nothing about Levi Jones. I think he was ok, as a LT. Maybe, he would be better after a full year of preperation.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;670311]I don't believe that Washington signed Williams to be a tackle today but the fact that he can play tackle makes him more valuable (typically it is ideal if a reserve lineman can play more than one position in a pinch).

Here is my take on Mike Williams. First, Allen and Shanahan have ZERO ties to Big Mike. I think they proved yesterday that if you can't help the team, you won't be on the team. So, they must think that Mike deserves a spot on the team.

Now, I thought Doc Walker (someone who is an expert on line play) broke down Mike Williams very well today. Big Mike as a tackle is a liability. I think everyone will admit that. [B]However, as a guard he performed much better. He showed signs of being a mauler in the run game and the fact that you have a guard with tackle skills helps in pass pro.[/B]

Now, what will be different this year? His body will be accustomed to being 340 - 360 as opposed to being 450. There is a transition period for people who gain a lot of weight or lose a lot of weight in a short period of time.

MOST IMPORTANTLY for him to be a contributor, he has to stay healthy. He wasn't healthy last year but still played almost the whole year.

Another key, they have to get a quality right tackle. Williams struggled but he had no help with Heyer next to him. Heyer can help in a pinch, but if he is a starting lineman for us, we have no chance long term.

Why am I hopeful that Mike Williams can help us? First, he has pedigree. He was an all-american at a premier program. Next, he actually has potential to improve. He has another full year to train and get in football shape.

I am hopeful for big things this year from him, ideally as a reserve. Unfortunately, we may need him to start some games though...[/quote]

Nice post. I think the part in bold is key. Even at 340 I remember folks saying Mike had surprising agility, and that's after how many years outside the game? As a huge, agile guard he could be very important in the zone-blocking scheme, though I don't enough acumen to know how he'll make the transition otherwise.

The part about Mike playing next to a RT superior to Heyer is also important. Personally I'm surprised we even kept Heyer. In space is just awful and watching him target, close and then block someone (which is key in zone-blocking) is just painful.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;670313]I think you are riight. I am a little suprised that we have heard nothing about Levi Jones. I think he was ok, as a LT. Maybe, he would be better after a full year of preperation.[/quote]

Levi isn't taking us to the bowl but I don't see how him being on the roster hurts us. We need two experienced tackles going into the season whether we draft a tackle or two or not.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;670313]I think you are riight. I am a little suprised that we have heard nothing about Levi Jones. I think he was ok, as a LT. Maybe, he would be better after a full year of preperation.[/quote]

Some games he was a freaking revolving door though. I'd expect them to give him a lil more help if that starts happening though.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;670317]Nice post. I think the part in bold is key. Even at 340 I remember folks saying Mike had surprising agility, and that's after how many years outside the game? As a huge, agile guard he could be very important in the zone-blocking scheme, though I don't enough acumen to know how he'll make the transition otherwise.

The part about Mike playing next to a RT superior to Heyer is also important. Personally I'm surprised we even kept Heyer. In space is just awful and watching him target, close and then block someone (which is key in zone-blocking) is just painful.[/quote]

I forget which game it was, hell it was probably more than one game, but Heyer couldn't even get the snap count right. I thought it was the Ballcoach era all over again.

My hope for Heyer is that he ends up our 4th tackle. If Big Mike and Stephon are both on our bench to start the year, I think we are in decent shape.

Btw...I am all for renting Mawae. We need at least one premium lineman playing for us week one. I think he has intangibles too.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;670313]I think you are riight. I am a little suprised that we have heard nothing about Levi Jones. I think he was ok, as a LT. Maybe, he would be better after a full year of preperation.[/quote]

I never thought Levi Jones was playing well last year.
And the stats from pro football prospectus list him as the second worst OT in the league last year.

Imo, OT and specifically Levi Jones were the biggests weak spot on the team.

I don't know why Jones gets a pass from some people yet Heyer gets bashed although he played most of the season injured and still finished the season with better stats then Jones.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;670332]I forget which game it was, hell it was probably more than one game, but Heyer couldn't even get the snap count right. I thought it was the Ballcoach era all over again.

My hope for Heyer is that he ends up our 4th tackle. If Big Mike and Stephon are both on our bench to start the year, I think we are in decent shape.

Btw...I am all for renting Mawae. We need at least one premium lineman playing for us week one. I think he has intangibles too.[/quote]

Rabach's smallish size is already a bit of a liability facing the nasty d-lines in the NFC East...putting him at guard is downright scary so I can't imagine we paid him to do anything but play center. That said Mawae would have been an enormous upgrade so I'm kind of surprised we "rushed" to lock up Rabach.

I think Shanny has to be very focused on the oline (obviously) beyond just acquiring younger, legitimate players. In Denver he didn't face conference rivals w/ d-lines like we see so he could get away w/ smallish, quicker linemen for the zone-blocking. Smallish guys, no matter how talented, will probably get destroyed facing our rivals 6 games each year. I think he needs the best of the best type of trench troops, extremely agile large guys to make his scheme work now. That cries out youth like I don't know what. This is why I was worried about Clifton coming here. We need serious talent in this group. Btw I think Shanny/Allen know this and probably don't expect to sign our LT/RT starters in FA. Just my hunch...