re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;893022]What is this about Manning having great skill players around him all his life? Were Garcon, Collie, Gonzalez, Clark really that skilled or did Manning make them so?[/quote]

Well, Wayne was certainly legit, and so was Harrison, and I think Dallas Clark was too.

Garcon played pretty well without him.

But other than that, I think he mostly made his receivers what they were.

[QUOTE=Chico23231;893021]booooooooooooonell...man yall were lucky i wasnt on this board when he was QBing.[/QUOTE]

Lol Oh now

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;893022]What is this about Manning having great skill players around him all his life? Were Garcon, Collie, Gonzalez, Clark really that skilled or did Manning make them so?[/QUOTE]

Manning made Wayne and Harrison too

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;893027]Manning made Wayne and Harrison too[/quote]

I really don't agree. Both of those guys were legit, they would have been top WRs on any other team.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

Why don't we copy what the Packers do, what the Patriots do, what the Giants do, what the Ravens do, what the Colts did.

All these teams build their teams through the draft. Saints were the only team that got lucky that a good quarterback become a free agent when he was still young and a lot of years left. The Packers had the best offense last year and their entire offense was drafted. The best part of the Giants was their defensive line and their receivers... drafted.

We need to rebuild similar to how the Lions rebuilt their team. Best three lions players? Suh, Johnson, and most would say Stafford and all three drafted.

You want to sign manning then fine, be prepared to be the Vikings in 2 or 3 years, just like when they signed Favre. The best teams build through the draft and smart FA moves, not big ones that the media goes crazy for.

Manning could and might get us to the playoffs, nothing more. I would rather wait a couple of years and have a team that is always in contention for a playoff spot like all the teams listed. Also a big reason why Manning was successful was the management at the time knew how to build a team through the draft, they gave him great weapons, and you didn't hear the colts going after big name free agents.

But we will be back to old usual redskins if we sign him, champions of the offseason last, and last place in the division

Wonder if Houston makes a play?

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;893027]Manning made Wayne and Harrison too[/quote]

Harrison was good without manning his first two years. Wayne was a beast at Miami and he still had a good year this year with awful quarterbacks throwing him the ball. Manning didn't play with scrubs.

Manning had more help overall than Brady I've always said that, but without manning, Wayne and Harrison would have just been good not great IMO

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

Big name FAs are on the market every year, but very rarely is there ever one as big as Manning. We don't have RG3 locked up, contrary to belief. Right now our QBs are Beck and Grossman and really it's only Beck because Grossman is a FA...so I don't see how you can't at least consider Manning

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;893035]Big name FAs are on the market every year, but very rarely is there ever one as big as Manning. We don't have RG3 locked up, contrary to belief. Right now our QBs are Beck and Grossman and really it's only Beck because Grossman is a FA...[B]so I don't see how you can't at least consider Manning[/B][/quote]

Fair enough. However from what I'm seeing right now, the ideal scenario of Miami getting Manning and Cleveland getting Flynn has a decent chance of playing out. At that point the price of that 2nd pick drops significantly.


[quote=skinsfaninok;893032]Wonder if Houston makes a play?[/quote]

[url=http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/02/heres-why-theres-no-chance-peyton-manning-will-play-for-the-texans/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter]Ultimate Texans » Here’s why there’s no chance Peyton Manning will play for the Texans[/url]

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=CrackBack;892912]I'm shocked at the responses about Shanny and Peyton have a problem with the offense. Signing Peyton Manning is as much for his genius offensive mind as it is for his ability. He would teach Kyle a thing or two and Mike is smart enough to let him do it. If the move is made for Manning, I am not worried at all that Mike, Kyle and Peyton wont have a monster offense put together. Add a big WR in FA along with a good, emerging running game and two strong TEs and the offense is automatically one of the best in the east.

Now, I love RGIII and think that for a long term solution, I would rather have him. He could be amazing for years to come -- legitimizing the Skins for more than just 2-3 years.


Having to talk about who you would rather have, Peyton Manning or RGIII, is pretty much the best problem we have ever had in an off-season. I will cry if we don't end up with one of them.[/quote]

I agree that singing Manning would be partly because of he is basically a offensive coordinator on the field. I dont like Kyle at all, so the idea of Peyton taking over the offense, for both the physical and mental aspect, sounds good to me.

I think Manning picks the team he goes based off of the following order:

1) He retains as much or even more control of the offense as he did in recent years in Indy, perhaps additional say in personal as well.
2) Playoff caliber team in terms of talent
3) Team with a existing WCO and/or who predominantly uses zone blocking. His time is short, he doesnt want to waste it by waiting for an entire offense to learn a completely different scheme.
4) Willingness to sign his friends. Wayne, Garson, Saturday. Maybe a coach too?
5) Money. I think the amount he gets will be pretty close regardless of team so im not sure this really matters. Maybe he wants a lot of guarantee bucks.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;893012]You mean his LT of course, but what if we sign Manning, Garcon, Royal, Grubbs, draft Blackmon in the 1st, Cousins in the 2nd...

I mean I wouldn't look at it just sign Manning and call it a day[/quote]

We're not getting Blackmon cause he'll be gone by #6. Royal and Garcon are just ho hum NFL wr's. I guess Manning will make them better. I'd take Grubbs. I just don't buy into this gas up Redskins One, off season show anymore. I'm just not investing in a 36 year Qb with a bad neck. All the fans will get excited and then the chemistry won't be there and it will be a let down all over again. This isn't fantasy football.

Why can't we just draft Cousins and start him day one?

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=donofriose;893031]Why don't we copy what the Packers do, what the Patriots do, what the Giants do, what the Ravens do, what the Colts did.

All these teams build their teams through the draft. Saints were the only team that got lucky that a good quarterback become a free agent when he was still young and a lot of years left. The Packers had the best offense last year and their entire offense was drafted. The best part of the Giants was their defensive line and their receivers... drafted.

We need to rebuild similar to how the Lions rebuilt their team. Best three lions players? Suh, Johnson, and most would say Stafford and all three drafted.

You want to sign manning then fine, be prepared to be the Vikings in 2 or 3 years, just like when they signed Favre. The best teams build through the draft and smart FA moves, not big ones that the media goes crazy for.

Manning could and might get us to the playoffs, nothing more. I would rather wait a couple of years and have a team that is always in contention for a playoff spot like all the teams listed. Also a big reason why Manning was successful was the management at the time knew how to build a team through the draft, they gave him great weapons, and you didn't hear the colts going after big name free agents.

But we will be back to old usual redskins if we sign him, champions of the offseason last, and last place in the division[/quote]

Great post! I could not agree more.

Just look at my beloved Celtics they went a ll in for 3 years of competitiveness (1 champ) now they are a complete mess. Same will happen to the Skins expect I don't think bringing Manning will get us a championship just make us competitive.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=Skinsfanatic;892991]No one wants Orton, Kolb, or Sanchez. It seems to me that our answer at QB HAS TO BE Manning, RGIII, Luck (if Colts were to take RGIII), or Tannehill. And actually, as I write this, I don't think Tannehill is an acceptable result.[/quote]

Dang it. I seem to be like 5 pages behind since last night. You guys are moving. Any chance you all can take an hours break and let me catch up? lol.

Orton is not a whole lot better then Grossman. When mentioned I think Grossman2. Kolb just sucks which is why the Eagles let him get away. Sanchez I really don't want but of the 3 I'd take Sanchez in hopes he works out better in a WCO vs. Schottenheimers offense.

Skinsfan... you only give us Manning, RGIII, Luck, or Tannehill? Man you guys really must hate Flynn to not mention him and must really hate Weeden whom KS liked at the Senior bowl. There are other options, perhaps not the favorite, but there are other options.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=Skinsfanatic;893019]This is what I am saying except why can't we sign all of those people (plus maybe Wayne or V-Jax) and still trade picks to pick RGIII to learn behind Manning (Rodgers style).[/quote]

My understanding of PM is that he is a rep hog in practices. I believe that's part of why Indy had no viable backup. If that is the case, and again it's not like I know it personally, then any qb that comes in isn't going to learn as much as he would behind an Orton for example. PM is an elite qb, maybe you learn something, but I think his presence tended to make the backup, and maybe even QB coach less focused, since they both knew PM was going to be directing everything.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;893003]I'm saying

Miami, Wsh, ARZ

Thats it[/quote]

You left out Seattle.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/07/report-seahawks-willing-to-spend-big-for-peyton-manning/]Report: Seahawks willing to spend big for Peyton Manning | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[quote]
The Seattle Seahawks are planning to “come out checkbook blazing” for Manning, a source tells [URL="https://twitter.com/#!/RichCimini"][COLOR=#d81718]Rich Cimini of ESPNNewYork.com[/COLOR][/URL], who is also reporting that [URL="http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/10880/sources-jets-will-check-out-peyton"][COLOR=#d81718]the Jets will check Manning out[/COLOR][/URL].
Seahawks owner Paul Allen has a [URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/10/at-13-5-billion-paul-allen-is-nfls-richest-owner/"][COLOR=#d81718]net worth estimated at $13.5 billion[/COLOR][/URL], making him about $10 billion richer than the second-wealthiest NFL owner, Stephen Ross of the Dolphins. So from Allen’s perspective, money will not be an issue.
[/quote]

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

I think the craziest thing that could happen is Manning signs with Miami. Matt Flynn's value would take a huge hit. And only 2 teams with a top 10 pick would remain as likely participants to trade up with St Louis.

If youre not RGIII or St Louis, Manning coming to market right now is a very good thing.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;893012]You mean his LT of course, but what if we sign [B]Manning, Garcon, Royal, Grubbs[/B], draft Blackmon in the 1st, Cousins in the 2nd...

I mean I wouldn't look at it just sign Manning and call it a day[/quote]

Lol, thats most of our $47 million in cap room right there. Put in at lest $15 for Manning (could be as high as $20). At least $8 or $9 for Garcon. $2 or $3 for Royal. And then make it around $9 or $10 for Grubbs.

*All numbers shown in millions.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=donofriose;893031]Why don't we copy what the Packers do, what the Patriots do, what the Giants do, what the Ravens do, what the Colts did.

All these teams build their teams through the draft. Saints were the only team that got lucky that a good quarterback become a free agent when he was still young and a lot of years left. The Packers had the best offense last year and their entire offense was drafted. The best part of the Giants was their defensive line and their receivers... drafted.

We need to rebuild similar to how the Lions rebuilt their team. Best three lions players? Suh, Johnson, and most would say Stafford and all three drafted.

You want to sign manning then fine, be prepared to be the Vikings in 2 or 3 years, just like when they signed Favre. The best teams build through the draft and smart FA moves, not big ones that the media goes crazy for.

Manning could and might get us to the playoffs, nothing more. I would rather wait a couple of years and have a team that is always in contention for a playoff spot like all the teams listed. Also a big reason why Manning was successful was the management at the time knew how to build a team through the draft, they gave him great weapons, and you didn't hear the colts going after big name free agents.

But we will be back to old usual redskins if we sign him, champions of the offseason last, and last place in the division[/quote]

If only there were more smart skin fans like you

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=donofriose;893031]Why don't we copy what the Packers do, what the Patriots do, [B]what the Giants do[/B], what the Ravens do, what the Colts did.

[/quote]

I agree. Draft pass rushers (Check) then trade up for a franchise QB on draft day.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;893037]Fair enough. However from what I'm seeing right now, the ideal scenario of Miami getting Manning and Cleveland getting Flynn has a decent chance of playing out. [B]At that point the price of that 2nd pick drops significantly.[/B]




[URL="http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/02/heres-why-theres-no-chance-peyton-manning-will-play-for-the-texans/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter"]Ultimate Texans » Here’s why there’s no chance Peyton Manning will play for the Texans[/URL][/quote]

No. People are assuming the price will drop because demand will be low. The price is set according to the "Chart". I have been saying all along that the Rams will want to pit us against the Browns in order to drive that price up higher. Which is what they are trying to do and the Browns and Skins Balked. If it comes down I don't see it coming down much in regards to high draft picks. I imagine they will still want..
2012: 1st, 2nd
2013: 1st, 3rd or 4th.

The Skins didn't want to give up the 2nd round pick this year.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

The chart is just a guideline, what teams are actually willing to pay determines the price.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;893022]What is this about Manning having great skill players around him all his life? Were Garcon, Collie, Gonzalez, Clark really that skilled or did Manning make them so?[/quote]

No...he made everyone on that list what they are. Even Wayne and Harrison drop a couple notches with almost any other QB.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;893038]I agree that singing Manning would be partly because of he is basically a offensive coordinator on the field. I dont like Kyle at all, so the idea of Peyton taking over the offense, for both the physical and mental aspect, sounds good to me.

I think Manning picks the team he goes based off of the following order:

1) He retains as much or even more control of the offense as he did in recent years in Indy, perhaps additional say in personal as well.
2) Playoff caliber team in terms of talent
3) Team with a existing WCO and/or who predominantly uses zone blocking. His time is short, he doesnt want to waste it by waiting for an entire offense to learn a completely different scheme.
4) Willingness to sign his friends. Wayne, Garson, Saturday. Maybe a coach too?
5) Money. I think the amount he gets will be pretty close regardless of team so im not sure this really matters. Maybe he wants a lot of guarantee bucks.[/quote]

1-check. reported MS would love for a QB like that again. (Elway)
2-check. MS reported the Skins were one last year.
3-check. we are a WCO with zone blocking.
4-check. we got the CAP space and need those positions. All.
4A- coach? whom? I thought all his immediate coaches have signed elswhere?
5-your probably correct but he did say he'd take a contract that was incentive based. But with demand from several teams will prbably bring about a nice paycheck with guarentee's.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;893039]We're not getting Blackmon cause he'll be gone by #6. Royal and Garcon are just ho hum NFL wr's. I guess Manning will make them better. I'd take Grubbs. I just don't buy into this gas up Redskins One, off season show anymore. I'm just not investing in a 36 year Qb with a bad neck. All the fans will get excited and then the chemistry won't be there and it will be a let down all over again. This isn't fantasy football.

Why can't we just draft Cousins and start him day one?[/quote]

??? I'm confused, who has a bad neck?

3 specialists have said PM is 100% healed and can take a hit. There is no bad neck. You could argue a QB with nerve damage but it appears he is recovering well from that too as seen on the video. So what QB are you refering to with a bad neck that the Skins are supposedly interested in?

Manning to any team and they are 10 wins guaranteed

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=Mattyk;893057]The chart is just a guideline, what teams are actually willing to pay determines the price.[/quote]

Plus it's already been reported that they're looking for similar comp as the Chargers in the Eli Manning trade. Two 1st a 3rd, a 5th, and a veteran (probably part of the reason the Skins are saying no to giving up a 2nd round pick). They are shooting for three 1st but without multiple high pick bidders like the Browns and Dolphins that goes out the window. Besides Allen and Shanahan have been great negotiators for quite a while now. They'll get a fair trade for that pick.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;893064]Manning to any team and they are [B]10 wins guaranteed[/B][/quote]

How can you guarantee me this? Exactly

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;893042]My understanding of PM is that he is a rep hog in practices. I believe that's part of why Indy had no viable backup. If that is the case, and again it's not like I know it personally, then any qb that comes in isn't going to learn as much as he would behind an Orton for example. PM is an elite qb, maybe you learn something, but I think his presence tended to make the backup, and maybe even QB coach less focused, since they both knew PM was going to be directing everything.[/quote]

Although the Colts didn't get that one would hope the back up QB is watching and trying to replicate even if it's after practice with the WR's or back up WR's. replicating PM in the film room and trying to be the best they can be in case they have to step in. Plus with PM's age you don't want to wear him out prior to Sun. so I'd imagine the back up would get some playing time.

edit: meaning practice time so PM can rest his arm and whatever else.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=mredskins;893040]Great post! I could not agree more.

Just look at my beloved Celtics they went a ll in for 3 years of competitiveness (1 champ) now they are a complete mess. Same will happen to the Skins expect I don't think bringing Manning will get us a championship just make us competitive.[/quote]

I'll gladly take a championship in the next 3 years

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/with-release-on-the-way-peyton-manning-will-have-plenty-of-options/2012/03/06/gIQATJj8vR_blog.html#pagebreak]With release on the way, Peyton Manning will have plenty of options - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=Mattyk;893057]The chart is just a guideline, what teams are actually willing to pay determines the price.[/quote]

Which is my point. Could it come down maybe, maybe not. Most teams in the past have stuck to the chart. The Browns are trying to get more then the chart and we balked. The big question is will they lower their standards and be willing to take below the chart? or simply draft the player they wanted and move on.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;893068]I'll gladly take a championship in the next 3 years[/quote]

This town needs a jump start bad. With the Capitals falling below their expected play, the Wizards having a horrid year, the Redskins season ending bad, and who knows what the Nats will do....

I'd take 1 SB again any day.

[QUOTE=CultBrennan59;893066]How can you guarantee me this? Exactly[/QUOTE

If he's 90% ? Give him a couple WRs and he's ready to go

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;893068]I'll gladly take a championship in the next 3 years[/quote]

I sometimes wonder if some fans are more interested in team composition ("build thru the draft!", "we need linemen"!) than actually winning. If we bring in Manning with, as you said a rookie QB prospect early, sign a couple valuable free agents, draft Blackmon and keep all future picks, how is that a bad thing?

The only doomsday scenario I see with Manning is if we sign him, then don't draft a QB until like the 5th or 6th round or overdraft say an Osweiler in the third and he doesn't develop at all and we are starting over at QB in 2014 or so.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/peyton-manning-redskins-poised-for-a-hard-sell-to-superstar-qb/2012/03/07/gIQAtnzxwR_blog.html]Peyton Manning: Redskins poised for a hard sell to superstar QB - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=mredskins;893040]Great post! I could not agree more.

Just look at my beloved Celtics they went a ll in for 3 years of competitiveness (1 champ) now they are a complete mess. Same will happen to the Skins expect I don't think bringing Manning will get us a championship just make us competitive.[/quote]

I agree with you...and I like your analogy since I am also a Celtics fan. When the Celts made that trade I said they need to win a title or this was a bad move. They did so it's all good. I feel the same way about signing Manning...they will need to win a SB in the next few years or it was a bad decision. I would rather make the trade for RG3 and hopefully open up a much longer title window...

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/peyton-manning-redskins-poised-for-a-hard-sell-to-superstar-qb/2012/03/07/gIQAtnzxwR_blog.html]Peyton Manning: Redskins poised for a hard sell to superstar QB - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

It's all speculation, but I think the Redskins should pass on Manning. I understand he's the best free agent in NFL history, but this team has to draft their own. Unless they intend to draft a rookie quarterback like Tannehill, Foles, or Weeden to back up Manning, then signing Manning wouldn't make much sense. Grossman and Beck are not good enough to even be back ups. Jonathan Crompton might be another option at QB but we don't know much about him yet. So, maybe they can draft a QB and develop him.

re: Colts Officially Release Peyton Manning (QB Thread #11)
 

[quote=Paintrain;893075]I sometimes wonder if some fans are more interested in team composition ("build thru the draft!", "we need linemen"!) than actually winning. If we bring in Manning with, as you said a rookie QB prospect early, sign a couple valuable free agents, draft Blackmon and keep all future picks, how is that a bad thing?

The only doomsday scenario I see with Manning is if we sign him, then don't draft a QB until like the 5th or 6th round or overdraft say an Osweiler in the third and he doesn't develop at all and we are starting over at QB in 2014 or so.[/quote]

I want RG3 but I don't think most people are saying signing Manning is a bad thing. Manning and RG3 is like selecting between a Filet and a NY Strip...I only take issue with those who suggest we have a hamburger instead...

So from that read SS, I get the sense that we are Manning 1st then RG3?