Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

Holy shit. Josina Anderson out there on Twitter spitting fire y’all!

League source gives opinion on #Lions decision to take the #Rams deal for Matthew Stafford: "The Rams were screwed with a bad contract on (Jared) Goff and the #Lions helped them and don't even get a good pick this year. [B]The Washington offer was better[/B]."

What the hell was it?!?!?!

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1276107]Holy shit. Josina Anderson out there on Twitter spitting fire y’all!

League source gives opinion on #Lions decision to take the #Rams deal for Matthew Stafford: "The Rams were screwed with a bad contract on (Jared) Goff and the #Lions helped them and don't even get a good pick this year. [B]The Washington offer was better[/B]."

What the hell was it?!?!?![/quote]

Probably something like two 1sts and a third (including 2021 1st). But I hope we don't find out.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

Rams havent had a 1st rd pick since 2016, but are in the playoffs every year. But some refuse to believe that Proven players > picks. Id trade my 1st rd pick for the next 5 years if it meant Deshaun Watson was coming to my team

Post off Twitter. Makes sense

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

Rams may be in win now mode, but they are gonna jump through hoops with their salary cap.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1276109]Rams havent had a 1st rd pick since 2016, but are in the playoffs every year. But some refuse to believe that Proven players > picks. Id trade my 1st rd pick for the next 5 years if it meant Deshaun Watson was coming to my team

Post off Twitter. Makes sense[/quote]

If you send 4 or 5 Ones for Watson, you expect to be good for a while so I tend to agree

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

Yet another crazy stat courtesy of Albert Breer:
[QUOTE]
[B][I][U]22[/U][/I][/B] quarterbacks were drafted in the first round between 2009 and 2016. None of the them remain on the team that drafted them. Zee. Row.[/QUOTE]

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1276114]Yet another crazy stat courtesy of Albert Breer:[/quote]

That is C R A Z Y ! ! !

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1276114]Yet another crazy stat courtesy of Albert Breer:[/quote]

Which is why you take the proven stud QB over a rookie all day every day

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1276117]Which is why you take the proven stud QB over a rookie all day every day[/quote]

Amen.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

The 49ers had offered 2 2nds and 2 3rds for Stafford.

[url]https://heavy.com/sports/san-francisco-49ers/matthew-stafford-trade-rumors-niners-offer/?fbclid=IwAR3fUIP4kfnNMi72J_XwZzNgOp5b60mglBnHZpJZ70yvqN7CgGEin0n2RgI[/url]

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1276114]Yet another crazy stat courtesy of Albert Breer:[/quote]

Misleading stat.
Lets look at the best starting QBs in the NFL. This is not necessarily in ranked order:

On team that drafted them:
Mahomes
Rodgers
Mayfield
Jackson
Allen
Roethlisraper
Wilson
Mayfield
Carr
Watson
Herbert
Murray
Ryan

Another team:
Tannehill
Fitzpatrick
Brees
Brady
Stafford
Goff
Bridgewater
Cousins
Rivers

This list could be much longer, but you get the point.
Most all of the great QBs are on team that drafted them.
Only exception is Brady, who won all his SBs on team that drafted him.
Brees was 27 when signed by Saints, and they did not trade picks for him.
Neither did TB trade picks for Brady.
Virtually every elite QB in the NFL is on the team that drafted them, and won their SBs on the team that drafted them, and the only exception is Brees who no one traded 3 1st round picks for at age 3x. The reason is simple: teams don't let true franchise QB get away. In general, the golden rule is that if you can trade for a QB, he probably isn't a franchise QB.

Now let's look at every QB who won 2+ SBs in the salary cap era, assuming that is our goal. Brady, Eli Manning, Roethlisraper, Young/Aikman (right on edge of salary cap era), Elway, P. Manning is the only QB to do it 2 different teams, and Denver won it in spite of him. Mahomes will probably be on that list at some point.

1 SB winners include Rodgers, Wilson, Flacco, Brees, etc., all on team drafted them. There are a few guys who won on team not drafted by, Dilfer, Johnson, Foles played for other teams before coming back to Eagles. 2-3 exceptions in entire salary cap era, and most all the great dynasties won with single QB they drafted and developed.

If the goal here is to win multiple SBs, the path is clear. You draft a QB. You develop him. Mahomes sat a year. Rodgers sat several. Brady sat several. Getting a true franchise QB isn't usually an instant gratification proposition. Like anything truly worth attaining, it takes commitment in draft and in development. Teams don't let true franchise QBs go voluntarily, with Brees being the only notable exception on the list, and obviously Brady who wanted out of NE. If a QB is available for trade or in FA, he is usually by definition not a franchise QB, as no team voluntarily surrenders one. EVER. Brady and Brees are only two exceptions in quarter century plus under salary cap, with caveats mentioned.

So all the people saying trying to draft a QB is folly, you are wrong, statistically speaking. Salary cap began in 1994, EVERY team won 2+ SBs drafted and developed the QB they won with. EVERY team that won SB since 1994 did so with QB drafted and developed, with exceptions of Warner, Dilfer, Johnson. Most people would say Dilfer and Johnson SBs won in spite of them or without dominant QB play, and that was BEFORE rule changes favoring passing absurdly and limiting practice so much that continuity in a system becomes HUGE advantage. That leaves one serious outlier, Warner. 23/26 SBs won by teams that drafted and developed, 88.5%, and 100% of teams who won 2+ SBs.

But yeah, let's trade 27 1st round picks for Watson, or Stafford, or whoever. Anyone wonder why teams who made the big name trades for retread QBs aren't on this list, for 2+ SBs especially? Even assuming the QBs produced? Because they had a short windows with the older QBs but not the resources to assemble a competitive team around them because they traded all those picks away, so couldn't get over the hump. Dynasties in the NFL are built through the draft, period.

So the question is, which QB do we draft without trading up?

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

Future draft picks are usually considered as equal to a round later of the current years picks, that's why you so often see a trade of this years second for next years first. On top of that, with Stafford the Rams picks are likely to be be very late in the first round now. And on top of that they are taking on Goffs contract. To my mind the 19th pick this year is worth more than what they got, but I think in the end Stafford wanted to go there and that is the point. WFT still has a bad reputation in the eyes of many, if you think one of the premier wide outs is coming here without an established QB you are dreaming, unless the only thing they are looking for is to make the most money

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

Scalper, can you stop writing novels on 90% of your post? Fuck me, even if I agree with 100% of your post, I need to live my life.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=Scalper;1276146]Misleading stat.
Lets look at the best starting QBs in the NFL. This is not necessarily in ranked order:

On team that drafted them:
Mahomes
Rodgers
Mayfield
Jackson
Allen
Roethlisraper
Wilson
Mayfield
Carr
Watson
Herbert
Murray
Ryan

Another team:
Tannehill
Fitzpatrick
Brees
Brady
Stafford
Goff
Bridgewater
Cousins
Rivers

This list could be much longer, but you get the point.
Most all of the great QBs are on team that drafted them.
Only exception is Brady, who won all his SBs on team that drafted him.
Brees was 27 when signed by Saints, and they did not trade picks for him.
Neither did TB trade picks for Brady.
Virtually every elite QB in the NFL is on the team that drafted them, and won their SBs on the team that drafted them, and the only exception is Brees who no one traded 3 1st round picks for at age 3x. The reason is simple: teams don't let true franchise QB get away. In general, the golden rule is that if you can trade for a QB, he probably isn't a franchise QB.

Now let's look at every QB who won 2+ SBs in the salary cap era, assuming that is our goal. Brady, Eli Manning, Roethlisraper, Young/Aikman (right on edge of salary cap era), Elway, P. Manning is the only QB to do it 2 different teams, and Denver won it in spite of him. Mahomes will probably be on that list at some point.

1 SB winners include Rodgers, Wilson, Flacco, Brees, etc., all on team drafted them. There are a few guys who won on team not drafted by, Dilfer, Johnson, Foles played for other teams before coming back to Eagles. 2-3 exceptions in entire salary cap era, and most all the great dynasties won with single QB they drafted and developed.

If the goal here is to win multiple SBs, the path is clear. You draft a QB. You develop him. Mahomes sat a year. Rodgers sat several. Brady sat several. Getting a true franchise QB isn't usually an instant gratification proposition. Like anything truly worth attaining, it takes commitment in draft and in development. Teams don't let true franchise QBs go voluntarily, with Brees being the only notable exception on the list, and obviously Brady who wanted out of NE. If a QB is available for trade or in FA, he is usually by definition not a franchise QB, as no team voluntarily surrenders one. EVER. Brady and Brees are only two exceptions in quarter century plus under salary cap, with caveats mentioned.

So all the people saying trying to draft a QB is folly, you are wrong, statistically speaking. Salary cap began in 1994, EVERY team won 2+ SBs drafted and developed the QB they won with. EVERY team that won SB since 1994 did so with QB drafted and developed, with exceptions of Warner, Dilfer, Johnson. Most people would say Dilfer and Johnson SBs won in spite of them or without dominant QB play, and that was BEFORE rule changes favoring passing absurdly and limiting practice so much that continuity in a system becomes HUGE advantage. That leaves one serious outlier, Warner. 23/26 SBs won by teams that drafted and developed, 88.5%, and 100% of teams who won 2+ SBs.

But yeah, let's trade 27 1st round picks for Watson, or Stafford, or whoever. Anyone wonder why teams who made the big name trades for retread QBs aren't on this list, for 2+ SBs especially? Even assuming the QBs produced? Because they had a short windows with the older QBs but not the resources to assemble a competitive team around them because they traded all those picks away, so couldn't get over the hump. Dynasties in the NFL are built through the draft, period.

So the question is, which QB do we draft without trading up?[/quote]

Wait! Are you saying that we should draft our quarterback of the future, rather than trade for him? Are you sure?

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

Stafford is a Ram and Geoff is a Lion + pics

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

I am smiling if I am a Lions fan today, especially if Goff finds his own self.

The Rams might given up to much for a QB that old. That package is what I would thought it take to get Watson.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

I just want to know what we offered. All this cloak and dagger crap pisses me off. If your “source familiar with the situation” is able to tel you they offered more than LA, do a little investigative journalism and go a step further and ask, what was the offer?

Per @BenStandig

Washington made the Lions a significant offer for QB
Matthew Stafford, per sources. One person familiar with the situation said the WFT offer included more immediate help than what Lions landed. Detroit went another way. The search for a QB rolls on.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

Two 1st round picks, one 3rd pick and Goff.. Man, imagine how much we would need to spend to trade for Watson if he is actually available..

Rams constantly mortgages their future for to win today and so far it hasn't paid dividends for the team. I love McVay but I'm not fan of his & Rams FO's strategy. Although, I have to admit, this time it might pay dividends since the QB was the position that held them back in 2020.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1276083]People need to realize that one of those first rounders was compensation for Detroit to take on Goff and his contract.[/quote]

After reading more, you are right but that just essentially states just how mismanaged the Rams are...

Rams will still have to eat 22 million in dead cap this year do to Goff, which affects cap. And I’m not sure but believe any remaining prorated signing bonus that was spread out over the deal will be accelerated into next year...again affecting their cap.

Why they signed Goff to a mega deal is gross mismanagement and then to have to trade him away giving up a first rounder...makes bill O’Brien look genius. It’s the Mount Rushmore of mega mistakes by an org.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1276160]I just want to know what we offered. All this cloak and dagger crap pisses me off. If your “source familiar with the situation” is able to tel you they offered more than LA, do a little investigative journalism and go a step further and ask, what was the offer?

Per @BenStandig

Washington made the Lions a significant offer for QB
Matthew Stafford, per sources. One person familiar with the situation said the WFT offer included more [B]immediate help[/B] than what Lions landed. Detroit went another way. The search for a QB rolls on.[/quote]

I would interpret this as a first round pick this year and a solid defensive player like Montez Sweat or Payne...or maybe Landon Collins too?

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

Stafford wanted to go to LA, didn't end up mattering how much Ron offered.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

Well one good thing we can take from this is that Dan probably wasn’t involved. We stopped once the price got too high. If Dan was there, we’d have kept going and given up yet another first and our whole D line just so he could “win”.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1276109]Rams havent had a 1st rd pick since 2016, but are in the playoffs every year. But some refuse to believe that Proven players > picks. Id trade my 1st rd pick for the next 5 years if it meant Deshaun Watson was coming to my team

Post off Twitter. Makes sense[/quote]

did not make it in 2019.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1276114]Yet another crazy stat courtesy of Albert Breer:[/quote]

what a dumb stat.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1276168]Stafford wanted to go to LA, didn't end up mattering how much Ron offered.[/quote]

exactly. if you were Stafford you want to play for a top offensive coach. not norv turner's son.... lol.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1276149]Scalper, can you stop writing novels on 90% of your post? Fuck me, even if I agree with 100% of your post, I need to live my life.[/quote]

don't forget warthog!

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1276160]I just want to know what we offered. All this cloak and dagger crap pisses me off. If your “source familiar with the situation” is able to tel you they offered more than LA, do a little investigative journalism and go a step further and ask, what was the offer?

Per @BenStandig

Washington made the Lions a significant offer for QB
Matthew Stafford, per sources. [B]One person familiar with the situation said the WFT offer included more immediate help than what Lions landed.[/B] Detroit went another way. The search for a QB rolls on.[/quote]

This doesn't really say much. The argument can be made that the 19th pick alone represents more immediate help than what the Lions landed in this trade.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1276176]what a dumb stat.[/QUOTE]How is it dumb. When 0% of a position drafted in the 1st round is on their original team 5 yrs later (2016)that should be a cautionary tale. When it happens consistently, it should be a strong warning that drafting a qb in the 1st round, even repeated attempts at it, is not a definitive way to get the right guy.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1276175]did not make it in 2019.[/quote]

Yeah I saw that, still had a winning record in 2019

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1276181]How is it dumb. When 0% of a position drafted in the 1st round is on their original team 5 yrs later (2016)that should be a cautionary tale. When it happens consistently, it should be a strong warning that drafting a qb in the 1st round, even repeated attempts at it, is not a definitive way to get the right guy.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

50% of 1st rouders bust anyway. so does that mean you do not try and draft one? i sure would like to have watson, murray, allen, rodgers, carr, herbert, mahomes, burrow. in 10 or 11 years chances are some of those young guys will have moved on or won't be playing. that is the nature of the beast.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=Chico23231;1276165]After reading more, you are right but that just essentially states just how mismanaged the Rams are...

Rams will still have to eat 22 million in dead cap this year do to Goff, which affects cap. And I’m not sure but believe any remaining prorated signing bonus that was spread out over the deal will be accelerated into next year...again affecting their cap.

Why they signed Goff to a mega deal is gross mismanagement and then to have to trade him away giving up a first rounder...makes bill O’Brien look genius. It’s the Mount Rushmore of mega mistakes by an org.[/quote]

but the rams have stayed a contender and will probably be one next year. if they get better qb play they are no doubt a favorite to come out of the NFC. yeah they have made mistakes but they haven't bottomed out like the texans.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1276183]50% of 1st rouders bust anyway. so does that mean you do not try and draft one? i sure would like to have watson, murray, allen, rodgers, carr, herbert, mahomes, burrow. in 10 or 11 years chances are some of those young guys will have moved on or won't be playing. that is the nature of the beast.[/QUOTE]Right, so the point is valid. If your strategy is solely to jump up to grab the kid that looks like a sure thing, it is a dumb strategy. If you have an NFL proven starter you can get for a first round pick or even 2, that is a better deal because as you said 50% of the 1st round drafted qbs are gonna bust.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1276177]exactly. if you were Stafford you want to play for a top offensive coach. not norv turner's son.... lol.[/quote]

The weather is better too, and scenery of course

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

Who cares. He wasn't coming here. I'll be glad if we stand pat and draft around Heineken

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=Meks;1276187]Who cares. He wasn't coming here. I'll be glad if we stand pat and draft around Heineken[/quote]

Drafting around TH is not in their plans clearly. They haven't even said he'll be back yet. Ron and the new regime are hell bent on finding a QB because they know the window is open now.

Good Defense
Solid weapons on O
CAP Room
Good staff.

All the ingredients of a win now team. The truth is Taylor is a nice story but he isn't the answer at QB.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

The Rams may think that was a good move for their team, I don’t, but I can see an argument for pushing their chips in and trying to win in Donald’s window.

But this is definitely not a price the WFT should have met and I’m glad it didn’t go that way. We’re better off with the 3 in 2021, and two ones in 22 and 23 than we would be with Stafford.

Onward and upward

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1276188]Drafting around TH is not in their plans clearly. They haven't even said he'll be back yet. Ron and the new regime are hell bent on finding a QB because they know the window is open now.

Good Defense
Solid weapons on O
CAP Room
Good staff.

All the ingredients of a win now team. The truth is Taylor is a nice story but he isn't the answer at QB.[/quote]

Bite your tongue. You will not speak in such a manner. Grounds for being banned. 😉

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

NBC Sports' Tom Curran reports Matthew Stafford told the Lions they could trade him to any team but the Patriots.
Curran cited a league source "whose team was heavily involved in Stafford trade negotiations but failed to land him." Stafford, of course, landed with the Rams, who dealt Jared Goff and a load of draft picks to Detroit. Apparently Stafford, 32, wanted nothing to do with Bill Belichick's ongoing quest to replace Tom Brady. Probably it didn't help that the Patriots have the worst pass-catching group -- and possibly the worst roster of skill position players -- in the entire league. Failed former Lions head coach Matt Patricia retreating to the Patriots could have influenced Stafford's request to land anywhere except New England, the least appealing destination for veteran free agents in the post-Brady era


Matt Patricia was a deterrent for Stafford...so that narrative was false


Agree with S10 above, Rams org is a mess now. not being able to add great young talent with low cap numbers on 5 years deals as well as being in cap salary hell (check over the cap.com, it’s a terrible situation with Goff gone) is gonna limit trying to build and maintain talent around Stafford.

Side note if you to over the cap, please check out the eagles. It’s the only team that rivals Rams in terms of terrible cap situation...they completely mismanaged several big contracts

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1276151]Wait! Are you saying that we should draft our quarterback of the future, rather than trade for him? Are you sure?[/quote]

I tend to lean on this logic too. Drafting a qb of the future is way more cost effective than trading for one. Not to mention how much your roster will be set back if the qb you trade for doesn't pan out.

Unless Watson could be had for a fair price I'm not mortgaging the future to win now.

Re: Stafford in WFT Plans? He’s Available
 

[quote=mooby;1276197]I tend to lean on this logic too. Drafting a qb of the future is way more cost effective than trading for one. Not to mention how much your roster will be set back if the qb you trade for doesn't pan out.

Unless Watson could be had for a fair price I'm not mortgaging the future to win now.[/quote]

It’s absolutely more cost effective. But it’s also absolutely a crapshoot.

The premium you pay for a guy like Stafford, multiple picks and a high dollar contract, you’re paying that premium for the certainty that you’ve got a QB you can build around, someone who allows you to move on and focus on building out the rest of the roster.

But like anything else, you have to decide whether the premium price was worth it. It was worth trading for, but not at this price.

We should explore other options. It beats rolling the dice on a rookie.