Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

So once again I will create thread on a good subject that I'm sure will get under 30 responses since it doesn't involve Campbell, a rookie QB, or some of the other overused topics people like to debate ad nauseam.

With that being said, here is your challenge. You are the GM (or Shanahan), how do you build the Redskins offensive line? Who do you keep? Who do you cut? Who would you draft? And which free agent would you go after?

Now, no crazy Madden-esque trades. Also, remember if you have an RFA in mind, that means that you trading picks for them (i.e. San Diego's tackle Marcus McNeill). And of course, if someone is under contract, well I say it's not even worth mentioning them.

Oh and don't just answer with the phrase "Shanahan can build an offensive line with just about anyone."

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Good thread.

Any topic or discussions about this is a good one. As long as it's followed through with by the front office I'm all for it.

I don't have any recommendations other than using multiple high draft picks on OT's and OG's. I haven't seen a free agent list of available OL for this year.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

I thought that you said NOT an overused topic? This is definitely one of the more discussed topics. Unfortunately I don't follow many other teams nor much of college so I don't know who to target.

Guys I'd look at replacing.. basically everyone other than maybe Dockery and maybe Rabach (can't believe that I'm saying that).. whatever gives us competence past that is fine..

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Nice thread idea!

LT: I draft the very best prospect w/ our 1st pick...probably Okung

RT: I draft the very best prospect w/ our 2nd pick.

LG: Dockery stays

RG: I let Rinehart and the Williams fight it out to see who adjusts best the zone blocking scheme. The other two are kept for backups.

C: I do everything I can to replace Rabach in FA and the earlier the better. Rabach seems to get more mistake prone every year and w/o excellent guards sandwiching him, i.e. Dock and Thomas in their prime, Rabach almost guarantees a very porous interior. He sucks donkey balls in reality and I highly doubt he'd start anywhere else in the league. Shanny/Allen can find a better Center.

The hope w/ this strategy is to find bookend tackles for the next decade and enough talent in between to give our offense a chance to win immediately.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Here, I even did some homework for you guys. Here is a list of UFAs/RFAs offensive linemen from the NFC by [URL="http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/11/25/2010-nfc-free-agent-preview"]ProFootball Weekly[/URL].

[B]NFC EAST[/B]
Dallas Cowboys
Potential UFAs: OG Montrae Holland
Potential RFAs: OT Pat McQuistan*, OG Duke Preston*, OT Cory Procter

New York Giants
Potential UFAs: No o-linemen
Potential RFAs: OT Kevin Boothe*, OT Guy Whimper*

Philadelphia Eagles
Potential UFAs: No o-linemen.
Potential RFAs: OG Nick Cole*, OT Winston Justice

Washington Redskins
Potential UFAs: OT Levi Jones, OT Mike Williams
Potential RFAs: OG D'Anthony Baptiste, OT Stephon Heyer, OG Will Montgomery*.

[B]NFC NORTH[/B]

Chicago Bears
Potential UFAs: No o-linemen.
Potential RFAs: No o-linemen.

Detroit Lions
Potential UFAs: OT Damion Cook, OT Jon Jansen, OT Ephraim Salaam.
Potential RFAs: OG Dylan Gandy*,OT Daniel Loper*, OG Manny Ramirez

Green Bay Packers
Potential UFAs: OT Chad Clifton, OT Mark Tauscher.
Potential RFAs: OG Daryn Colledge*, C Jason Spitz*.

Minnesota Vikings
Potential UFAs: OG Artis Hicks
Potential RFAs: OT Ryan Cook*

[B]NFC SOUTH[/B]

Atlanta Falcons
Potential UFAs: No o-linemen.
Potential RFAs: OT Tyson Clabo*, OG Harvey Dahl*, OL Quinn Ojinnaka*

Carolina Panthers
Potential UFAs: OG Keydrick Vincent.
Potential RFAs: No o-linemen.

New Orleans Saints
Potential UFAs: C Nick Leckey,
Potential RFAs: OT Jammal Brown*, OT Jermon Bushrod, OG Jahri Evans*, OG Zach Strief*

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Potential UFAs: No o-linemen.
Potential RFAs: OT Donald Penn*, OT Jeremy Trueblood*


[B]NFC WEST[/B]

Arizona Cardinals
Potential UFAs: OG Jeremy Bridges, OT Mike Gandy,
Potential RFAs: OG Ben Claxton, OG Deuce Lutui*, C Lyle Sendlein,

St. Louis Rams
Potential UFAs: No o-linemen.
Potential RFAs: OT Alex Barron*, OG Mark Setterstrom*

San Francisco 49ers
Potential UFAs: OT Tony Pashos, OT Barry Sims
Potential RFAs: OG David Baas*

Seattle Seahawks
Potential UFAs: OT Damion McIntosh,
Potential RFAs: OT Brandon Frye, OG Rob Sims*, C Chris Spen

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

1rst Rd- LT R. Okung
2nd Rd- C M. Pouncey
4th Rd- LT J. Veldheer (Unless QB LeFevour or higher rated RB/FS is available)
5th and 7th, Yet to be determined.

Keep Dockery, Rabach (back-up), Rinehart, Heyer, Fanaika, Lichtsteinsteiger, E. Williams.

If any of the UFA's out there appear to be solid...sign them. Sportscurmudgeon mentioned Justin Hartwig, Nick Kaczur, and Bobby Williams. I would definitely check them out.

If Samuels decides to come back, (I think he should retire, I would), him or Okung could go to RT.

Open competition at Training Camp. May the best men win. Find out early who they are and work 'em. The more time they play together the better.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

To help the quality of upcoming posts in this thread, here's a link to a list of FA O-lineman:

[URL="http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html"]2010 NFL Free Agents: OL[/URL]

As far as starters go, I can honestly see Derrick Dockery being the only incumbent. Samuels should retire, I doubt Randy will be back, Rabach and Heyer are bums, and I'd be surprised if Edwin Williams or Chad Rinehart could earn a starting job.

I think we need to build the entire O-line around Armstrong. :)

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Here's the AFC list from [URL="http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/11/25/2010-afc-free-agent-preview"]ProFootball Weekly[/URL]. Thanks for the other [URL="http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html"]link[/URL] GMScud, I'm glad footballsfuture.com updated their list.

[B]AFC EAST[/B]

Buffalo Bills
Potential UFAs: OG Seth McKinney
Potential RFAs: OT Jonathan Scott.

Miami Dolphins
Potential UFAs: No o-linemen
Potential RFAs: No o-linemen

New England Patriots
Potential UFAs: OG Stephen Neal
Potential RFAs: OG Dan Connolly*, OG Logan Mankins*.


New York Jets
Potential UFAs: No o-linemen
Potential RFAs: OL Wayne Hunter*


[B]AFC NORTH[/B]

Baltimore Ravens
Potential UFAs: No o-linemen
Potential RFAs: OG Chris Chester*, OT Jared Gaither, OT Tony Moll*, QB Troy Smith, OT Adam Terry*, OG Marshal Yanda.

Cincinnati Bengals
Potential UFAs: OG Scott Kooistra, OG Bobbie Williams
Potential RFAs: OG Evan Mathis*, OG Dan Santucci.

Cleveland Browns
Potential UFAs: OG Rex Hadnot, OT Ryan Tucker.
Potential RFAs: OG Billy Yates*.


Pittsburgh Steelers
Potential UFAs: No o-linemen
Potential RFAs: OT Willie Colon*, OG Darnell Stapleton.


[B]AFC SOUTH[/B]

Houston Texans
Potential UFAs: OG Chester Pitts, OG Tutan Reyes,
Potential RFAs: OT Rashad Butler*, C Chris White*.

Indianapolis Colts
Potential UFAs: No o-linemen
Potential RFAs: OG Daniel Federkeil, OT Charlie Johnson*,

Jacksonville Jaguars
Potential UFAs: OG Kynan Forney
Potential RFAs: No o-linemen

Tennessee Titans
Potential UFAs: C Kevin Mawae.
Potential RFAs: No o-linemen


[B]AFC WEST[/B]

Denver Broncos
Potential UFAs: OT Brandon Gorin, OG Ben Hamilton, OG Ross Hochstein
Potential RFAs: OG Chris Kuper*,

Kansas City Chiefs
Potential UFAs: OT Wade Smith
Potential RFAs: OG Andy Alleman, OT Ikechuku Ndukwe, C Rudy Niswanger*, OG Ryan O'Callaghan*

Oakland Raiders
Potential UFAs: OT Cornell Green, OT Langston Walker
Potential RFAs: OT Khalif Barnes*, C Chris Morris

San Diego Chargers
Potential UFAs: No o-linemen
Potential RFAs: OT Jeromey Clary, OT Marcus McNeill*

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=GMScud;664313]To help the quality of upcoming posts in this thread, here's a link to a list of FA O-lineman:

[URL="http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html"]2010 NFL Free Agents: OL[/URL]

As far as starters go, I can honestly see Derrick Dockery being the only incumbent. Samuels should retire, I doubt Randy will be back, Rabach and Heyer are bums, and I'd be surprised if Edwin Williams or Chad Rinehart could earn a starting job.

[B]I think we need to build the entire O-line around Armstrong[/B]. :)[/quote]

Or he could just play the o-line by himself. He's THAT good! :)

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

This is a great thread.

Here's what I would do:

Try to build a team rather than a few stellar players.

I would try to pick up a veteran LT in FA. Trade down in the first round to try to pick up an extra second rounder. I would trade Portis since I think between his health and work ethic he won't be an asset to the team. Maybe we can get another second rounder for him. Then I would keep Dockery and fill the rest of the line with the best available guys using the now 4 picks in the second round. I would then look for CBs and developmental O-linemen in the rest of the draft.

I would hope this would build a solid O-line - though maybe not stellar. I think if Campell had 1 more second per play we would be a significantly improved team.

Next year I would take a LT with the first pick.

Keep in mind that I think we'll play a lot of two tight end sets this year so cooley and davis can help with the blocking - or go out. The defense not knowing if these guys are staying in or going out means they'll have to be able to cover them in case they go out and they won't be able to bliz as freely. Campell also needs tobe given the abilty to audible into TE screens in case there is a full blitz.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=GMScud;664313]To help the quality of upcoming posts in this thread, here's a link to a list of FA O-lineman:

[URL="http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html"]2010 NFL Free Agents: OL[/URL]

As far as starters go, I can honestly see Derrick Dockery being the only incumbent. Samuels should retire, I doubt Randy will be back, Rabach and Heyer are bums, and I'd be surprised if Edwin Williams or Chad Rinehart could earn a starting job.

I think we need to build the entire O-line around Armstrong. :)[/quote]


I love how the internet fosters a pack mentality...somebody with internet gravitas says something and it becomes the prevailing opinion

Rabach is not a bum..he played on a crappy offense..the last two seasons were the only two he wasn't on a line that blocked for a top RB in the league..(Portis was conference leader over AP/Turner in '08 up until Halloween)

the deficiencies of those lines were both clearly defined..by injury, poor depth, and awful coaching that seemed to be over-matched at every turn..(sorry Buges)

draft a center and groom him for next season..with the new QB..in the short run F/A will provide them with some new blood..Center is not the immediate concern

personally I think Pouncey will be gone...(only thing.. he was exclusively a shot-gun center)..he is the highest rated I've seen since Jake Groves left Va Tech

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=HolyLandSkinsFan;664317]This is a great thread.

Here's what I would do:

Try to build a team rather than a few stellar players.

I would try to pick up a veteran LT in FA. Trade down in the first round to try to pick up an extra second rounder. I would trade Portis since I think between his health and work ethic he won't be an asset to the team. Maybe we can get another second rounder for him. Then I would keep Dockery and fill the rest of the line with the best available guys using the now 4 picks in the second round. I would then look for CBs and developmental O-linemen in the rest of the draft.

I would hope this would build a solid O-line - though maybe not stellar. I think if Campell had 1 more second per play we would be a significantly improved team.

Next year I would take a LT with the first pick.

[/quote]

great Campbell and a couple rookies...for Portis and the
#4 overall where there is top-grade talent available at many positions

people will be trashing the Shananhans if that is what they bring to the table..I've heard experts say the talent on the Redskins is not too far off at all..the entire division was blown out bad by somebody at some time last season

if that is the case..good chance that left tackle in 2011 will be the first pick overall...not Mike's style at all

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

2nd round-Charles Brown or Bruce Campbell (one will be available)
3rd round-Kyle Calloway (after we trade into the 3rd round)
FA-Ben Hamilton

LT: Brown or Campbell
LG: Dockery
C: Hamilton (Shanny moves him to C and Rabach is gone)
RG: Rinehart/Mike Williams camp battle (loser goes home)
RT: Levi Jones (until week 10 when Calloway and Jevan Bradford join the starting lineup)

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=terpsez11;664318][B]I love how the internet fosters a pack mentality...somebody with internet gravitas says something and it becomes the prevailing opinion

Rabach is not a bum..[/B] he played on a crappy offense..the last two seasons were the only two he wasn't on a line that blocked for a top RB in the league..(Portis was conference leader over AP/Turner in '08 up until Halloween)

the deficiencies of those lines were both clearly defined..by injury, poor depth, and awful coaching that seemed to be over-matched at every turn..(sorry Buges)

draft a center and groom him for next season..with the new QB..in the short run F/A will provide them with some new blood..Center is not the immediate concern

personally I think Pouncey will be gone...(only thing.. he was exclusively a shot-gun center)..he is the highest rated I've seen since Jake Groves left Va Tech[/quote]

Pack mentality? Nah. Maybe it's be the fact that he gets used like a rag doll against better competition, specifically 3-4 nose guards? Or the fact that he can't call out protections to save his life? Yeah, that's why I think he's a bum. Nothing to do with the internet.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Rabach isn't a bum but he's not much more than an average player on the decline. He's serviceable but it's probably time to look elsewhere at center.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;664308]Nice thread idea!

LT: I draft the very best prospect w/ our 1st pick...probably Okung

RT: I draft the very best prospect w/ our 2nd pick.

LG: Dockery stays

RG: I let Rinehart and the Williams fight it out to see who adjusts best the zone blocking scheme. The other two are kept for backups.

C: I do everything I can to replace Rabach in FA and the earlier the better. Rabach seems to get more mistake prone every year and w/o excellent guards sandwiching him, i.e. Dock and Thomas in their prime, Rabach almost guarantees a very porous interior. He sucks donkey balls in reality and I highly doubt he'd start anywhere else in the league. Shanny/Allen can find a better Center.

The hope w/ this strategy is to find bookend tackles for the next decade and enough talent in between to give our offense a chance to win immediately.[/quote]


This is exactly my thoughts.
1st two picks in the draft get olineman. preferably two starting tackles. I think we are good at the guard position for the next year.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

First, wait for the combine and check out the Olinemen who do well in the three-cone drill, then draft a few of them.
Sign Kevin Mawae.
Sign some old Denver Olinemen.
Cut Heyer, Rhinehart, and Will Montgomery. Let Rabach go.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

It's so difficult at this time to predict or project because of the uncertainty surrounding FA's; Who will be available and at what cost. I do like the thread concept because without a doubt the O-line should be priority number one, but FA offers little help in this area because there's so little to chose from.

However, I am interested in seeing what leftover linemen we have that the new coaching staff will deem worthy of keeping, if any. So many uncertainties and possibilities is what continues to make this one of the most interesting off-seasons in a very long time.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

LT: resign Levi Jones / draft Charles Brown in 2nd
LG: Dockery
C: Rabach, but use our 4th rounder on a C to groom
RG: Williams / Rinehart / Ben Hamilton
RT: sign Kaczur from NE

Notice that we can do this and still draft a QB at #4.

In the unlikely event that a trade-down happens, the choices become more numerous.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Lotus;664400]LT: resign Levi Jones / draft Charles Brown in 2nd
LG: Dockery
C: Rabach, but use our 4th rounder on a C to groom
RG: Williams / Rinehart / Ben Hamilton
RT: sign Kaczur from NE

[B]Notice that we can do this and still draft a QB at #4.

In the unlikely event that a trade-down happens, the choices become more numerous.[/B][/quote]
As long as the FO puts an emphasis on the OL, then we ought to be able to bring a lot of pieces here, from the draft, through FA like Kaczur, and put together an OL that allows our offense to compete. I would love to see the first 2 picks go OL, but I can live with it as long as they demonstrate that emphasis.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Lotus;664400]LT: resign Levi Jones / draft Charles Brown in 2nd
LG: Dockery
C: Rabach, but use our 4th rounder on a C to groom
RG: Williams / Rinehart / Ben Hamilton
RT: sign Kaczur from NE

Notice that we can do this and still draft a QB at #4.

In the unlikely event that a trade-down happens, the choices become more numerous.[/quote]

I like this...actually the top 3 centers right now in the draft could probably beat out Rabach. Hamilton is a nice stop/gap and probably would be Shanny preference for starting over Busthart and Williams. Kaczur would be a nice addition probably for not too much cash too.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Is anyone intrigued by Mawae if even for one year? IMO he is the definition of a professional offensive lineman. Since $ is not a factor, I don't see a downside to having him in the locker room even if it is for a short time.

I am definitely nostalgic, but I hope that they give Randy Thomas another year here (of course they need to tear up the old contract).

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Ruhskins:

Good thread. Thank you.

The Redskins' OL will not be reconstructed in a single off-season unless there is another miraculous draft event like the one that brought in Mark May, Russ Grimm and Joe Jacoby in a single year. (I think that was 1981 but it could have been 1982.) It could happen again; it just isn't likely...

The key for this offseason seems to me to acquire at least one - - and prefereably two - - young offensive lineman who will be the anchors of the reconstructed OL in the future. I really don't care what position(s) the new anchor(s) take up on the OL, but having two young studs there would be a real positive sign for the 2011 and 2012 seasons.

Waiting to see how "the young guys on the roster" develop is frought with danger. Waiting to see how they might play is what put the Skins in the position of having to sign Levi Jones at the last minute - - actually in mid-season - - last year. Other eleventh-hour tinkering with the OL produced other players who just couldn't play all that well.

If the Skins do not have new bodies on the roster before training camp starts, they will be looking for culls later on down the line. And what is on the roster now is "too many culls"...

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Not sure anyone has mentioned him, but Kory Liechtensteiger has a strong chance to make the team and potentially start at C or G

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=GMScud;664349]Pack mentality? Nah. Maybe it's be the fact that he gets used like a rag doll against better competition, specifically 3-4 nose guards? [B]Or the fact that he can't call out protections to save his life? Yeah, that's why I think he's a bum.[/B] Nothing to do with the internet.[/quote]

You know there was a guy on this team that was supposed to do that but said that he didn't want to. You know the guy that could see a guy walk up showing blitz. Or could see how the defense is shifting and what type of defense they are showing pre-snap because he's standing or crouching behind the "bum". I'm just saying. However, we must find someone to call the protections since that guy refuses to take that kind of responsibility so I guess he is a bum because he can't do another guys job. I just love reading how blunt many are when it comes to the 52 other guys on this team.

Bruce Allen I beg you, if you care about the sanity of the Skins fans on this board draft Russel Okung at 4; then whoever the best availiable O-Lineman is when the Skins pick again.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Ruhskins;664299]With that being said, here is your challenge. You are the GM (or Shanahan), how do you build the Redskins offensive line? Who do you keep? Who do you cut? Who would you draft? And which free agent would you go after?[/quote]

I've tried to envision a scenario where we upgrade the OL independent of the 4th pick and while i can come up with improvements its only because of how bad the OL was last year.

[B][I]LT-Stephon Heyer[/I][/B]-it would require hope that a healthy Heyer can show the promise he showed at the end of 2008 when he took over the LT spot from an injured Samuels, Heyer played the majority of the season with a knee injury that often prevented him from practicing: Ratng... Serviceable to good,

[B][U]LG-Dockery-Good[/U][/B]

[B][U]C-Edwin Williams[/U][/B]-- I think its time to find out if Edwin Williams is ready to step up, as a rookie UDFA pressed into playing out of position at RG he played well. Maybe moving him to his natural position of Center will make the middle of the OL more stout then its been with Rabach. Rabach is a decent center but he's a FA and he's not strong at the point (and Ratliff owns him twice err!!) On the flip side he could provide veteran leadership on an OL in tranisition-but on the flip side of that why wait to build the OL into a young cohesive unit ready to grow and improve togother starting with the Center?-Rating: Serviceable to good

[U][B]RG-Rinehart[/B][/U] i thought he played well after he was finally placed into the starting line-up after needless handwringing and concern. One thing i never understood was why they let Rinehart get all the reps while Randy Thomas was recovering from his injuries then broke the cohesion by putting Thomas in as the starter when he returned from his injury. But when Thomas was injured again the acted like Rinehart wasn't ready to play and tried playing Montgomery and Williams instead? And imo Rinehart played better then both those guys.

[B][U]RT-2nd round pick[/U][/B] hopefully Bruce Campbell but that's unlikely maybe... Duccase or Charles Brown lasts they could play RT until/if they show they're ready to play LT or they could stat at LT until they show they can't handle it, i would prefer they start at RT then move over, but if there is a run on OT which is likely Ducasse and Brown might not even being around when we pick in the 2nd and don't like hope as a strategy for landing OL via the draft

FA:
[B][U]Tony Pashos[/U][/B] via FA he's cheap and familiar with new OL coach Forester
Pashos could challenge for the RT against a rookie and provide some depth

I think this OL or a similiar OL would be an improvement because they would be young players building cohesion and could grow together and improve with playing experience

But, imo it would be easier and yield greater improvement if we began fixing the OL by solidifying either OT with the 4th pick:

[U][B]LT-Okung / Davis-Good[/B][/U]
[U][B]LG-Dockery-Good[/B][/U]
[U][B]C-Ed Williams-Seriveable to Good[/B][/U]
[U][B]RG-Rinehart-Serviceable to Good[/B][/U]
[U][B]RT-Heyer-Serviceable to Good[/B][/U]

[B][U]Cut/Released/Retired:[/U][/B]

Chris Samuels
Randy Thomas
Casey Rabach
Mike Williams

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;664405][B]Is anyone intrigued by Mawae if even for one year? [/B] IMO he is the definition of a professional offensive lineman. Since $ is not a factor, I don't see a downside to having him in the locker room even if it is for a short time.

I am definitely nostalgic, but I hope that they give Randy Thomas another year here (of course they need to tear up the old contract).[/quote]

I am interested. He would only be a stopgap but he would be a good one.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

draft a tackle with the 2nd round pick (SS's players sounded good)

draft a OT/G in the 4th round

sign OT tony pashos - we've been linked to him, our new o line coach is from SF. i dont believe he is guaranteed a starting job in SF but he wants one. i dont know much about this guy, player/skill wise thoo.

sign one of the broncos O lineman - with the broncos switching to power running football they might be parting with their zone blocking guys. hopefully shanny can pluck atleast 1 guy he likes from there,that player would be familiar with our new system, etc.

sign rabach to a 2 year deal if we cant find a better replacement in FA.

randy thomas is coming back imo, and the man is a beast. i do worry that he has slowed down a good bit the past few years and wont be the ideal fit for a speed zone blocking scheme but i like randy alot and will give him another year to prove he is still a top guard.

samuels has not retired yet, we will hear soon enough when he gets re-evaluated this month

resign mike williams to vet min.; if not resign levi jones to 1 year incentive based contract.

LT - samuels, pashos, our 2nd round OT
LG - dockery, broncos guard, 4th round G pick
C - rabach, edwin williams, ?
RG - thomas, rineheart, 4th round G pick
RT - pashos, 2nd round OT, heyer

if samuels does retire, i think we have to re-sign levi.

i think this scenario is very achievable. of course, this only works if tony pashos is an upgrade over heyer, m williams and levi jones.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Isn't Mawae pretty old ?

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

This might help:

[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/279691/oline.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;664417]Isn't Mawae pretty old ?[/quote]


Yes but as bad as this line is, a strong band-aid may be necessary in a couple of spots.

I don't want them spending more money on Rabach. I think he had a decent year last year but I am tired of that jackass nose tackle in Dallas living in our backfield.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

It's going to take a couple/few years to have a good oline again. I know what I wouldn't do. I wouldn't start Heyer in any NFL game. Do whatever it takes, but no Heyer.

I'd try to find at least 2 olineman that have the capability to start in the NFL. We might get a FA to fill another hole.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=redsk1;664423]It's going to take a couple/few years to have a good oline again. I know what I wouldn't do. I wouldn't start Heyer in any NFL game. Do whatever it takes, but no Heyer.

I'd try to find at least 2 olineman that have the capability to start in the NFL. We might get a FA to fill another hole.[/quote]

Personally, I want Heyer off the team. I would rather have Levi at RT than Heyer. He just isn't good enough to be a starting tackle in the league.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

Also in for a "2nd tier" tackle selection in Charles Brown or similar

Guys to consider but not be only option at their spots (aka if we can't get a younger starter): Mawae and Pitts .. doesn't get us much younger, but it puts someone there competent until our younger guys/draft picks/future picks can start

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;664308]Nice thread idea!

LT: I draft the very best prospect w/ our 1st pick...probably Okung

RT: I draft the very best prospect w/ our 2nd pick.

LG: Dockery stays

RG: I let Rinehart and the Williams fight it out to see who adjusts best the zone blocking scheme. The other two are kept for backups.

C: I do everything I can to replace Rabach in FA and the earlier the better. Rabach seems to get more mistake prone every year and w/o excellent guards sandwiching him, i.e. Dock and Thomas in their prime, Rabach almost guarantees a very porous interior. He sucks donkey balls in reality and I highly doubt he'd start anywhere else in the league. Shanny/Allen can find a better Center.

The hope w/ this strategy is to find bookend tackles for the next decade and enough talent in between to give our offense a chance to win immediately.[/quote]

Perfect plan, especially sending Rabach packing.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/35264-credskinsrule-presents-what-wp-frequently-discussed.html[/url]

Just kidding. LOL.

This is a good thread especially since this is a position in need of a drastic upgrade.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;664426]Personally, I want Heyer off the team. I would rather have Levi at RT than Heyer. He just isn't good enough to be a starting tackle in the league.[/quote]

I was enamored with Heyer when he was picked up and lately have soured on him. But since we have him could he be used as a Guard? He is not LT material and he's hardly RT material. I'm guessing cause of his lateral movement. I could be way off but could he be retained as a Guard? Maybe there is more lateral movement and I just don't know it but I just wonder if he would be a decent Guard. Could he pull and be a good run blocking Guard?

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I just looked at all our OL and thought all last yr that each one might have been a decent Guard but sucked at either LT or RT. Moving Levi to RT might solve that issue.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

I wouldn't mind keeping Heyer around as a backup. Not sure he's cut out for guard.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=The Goat;664308]Nice thread idea!

LT: I draft the very best prospect w/ our 1st pick...probably Okung

RT: I draft the very best prospect w/ our 2nd pick.

LG: Dockery stays

RG: I let Rinehart and the Williams fight it out to see who adjusts best the zone blocking scheme. The other two are kept for backups.

C: I do everything I can to replace Rabach in FA and the earlier the better. Rabach seems to get more mistake prone every year and w/o excellent guards sandwiching him, i.e. Dock and Thomas in their prime, Rabach almost guarantees a very porous interior. He sucks donkey balls in reality and I highly doubt he'd start anywhere else in the league. Shanny/Allen can find a better Center.

The hope w/ this strategy is to find bookend tackles for the next decade and enough talent in between to give our offense a chance to win immediately.[/quote]

This isn't a bad plan but I'm hedging my bet that QB is picked up at #1. So if that is what Shanahan wants and gets how do we resolve the OL issue and who do we draft? Last yr was pretty much a defensive yr. This yr should be a more offensive yr, but changing defensive scheme's is an issue.

QB- Bradford/Clausen.
RB- We could probably hold off until next yr. Portis, Ganther, Alridge.
WR- Set unless MS wants someone who won't take draft picks. T.O.
TE- Set.
OL- FA, Draft.

CB- I think set unless a decent FA come available.
SS- Set.
FA- FA, Draft.
LB- I'd pick one more up.
DE- Set. Orakpo, Jarmin, Carter, AH?.
DL/NT- FA, Draft.

Re: Time to Build an Offensive Line
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;664426]Personally, I want Heyer off the team. I would rather have Levi at RT than Heyer. He just isn't good enough to be a starting tackle in the league.[/quote]

[quote=SBXVII;664462]I was enamored with Heyer when he was picked up and lately have soured on him. But since we have him could he be used as a Guard? He is not LT material and he's hardly RT material. I'm guessing cause of his lateral movement. I could be way off but could he be retained as a Guard? Maybe there is more lateral movement and I just don't know it but I just wonder if he would be a decent Guard. Could he pull and be a good run blocking Guard?

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. I just looked at all our OL and thought all last yr that each one might have been a decent Guard but sucked at either LT or RT. Moving Levi to RT might solve that issue.[/quote]

I think a lot of people forget that Heyer played most of the season with a knee injury and often couldn't practice during the week.

Also, Heyer played 924 snaps gave up 8 sacks and 11 QB hits
Jones played 527 snaps gave up 6 sacks and 14 QB hits

Its hard to claim that Jones was better when his performance doesn't indicate this especially when you consider that Heyer was playing hurt most of the season.

[url=http://margaret11.newsworld.net/news/2009/dec/31/ailing-heyer-hanging-tough-for-redskins/]Ailing Heyer hanging 'tough' for Redskins - Washington Times[/url]

[B][COLOR="DarkOrange"][SIZE="3"]In his first full season as a starting tackle for the Washington Redskins, Stephon Heyer has struggled to open holes in the run game and in pass protection.

But there's no disputing the former Maryland standout's toughness. Heyer has been playing with an ailing left knee for two months, and he crumpled to the field with an injured right knee during the third quarter Sunday night against Dallas.

"I don't know how he got up," offensive line coach Joe Bugel said. "I had [backup Will Robinson] ready to go, and he said, 'No. I'm playing.' "

Heyer didn't miss a snap even though the going-nowhere Redskins were trailing the Cowboys 17-0.

"Stephon's a tough kid," said left guard Derrick Dockery, who knows something about that attribute after starting 108 consecutive games. "He's playing pretty much injured the whole year. Even with the tough year we're having, I never wonder if he's going to play. I know Stephon. He's going to be out there. I'm real proud of him."

So is quarterback Jason Campbell, who was shaken up on the same play that Heyer injured his right patellar tendon against Dallas.

"Sometimes [Stephon] misses practice all week so he's able to play," Campbell said. "I commend him for his effort. He understands there's not a lot of depth. If he can't play, it puts us in a lot of trouble."

When it appeared Heyer might not be able to play two weeks ago, the Redskins were planning to start the untested Robinson against Justin Tuck, the New York Giants' standout pass-rusher. But Heyer sucked it up and started as usual.

"Each year, Stephon has gotten tougher and tougher," Bugel said. "He understands there's a lot of pain in the National Football League. You never wake up and feel good during the season."

Heyer, whose 18 consecutive starts rank sixth on the Redskins, has lined up next to four right guards and will make it five Sunday at San Diego if Paul Fanaika or Will Montgomery replaces the injured Mike Williams. Heyer also started three games at left tackle in place of the injured Chris Samuels.

"It's football, there's no guarantee that you're going to stay healthy," Heyer said. "You just gotta keep going. No one really cares if you're hurt. You just gotta keep playing even when there's nothing to play for except personal pride. Finishing, that's what I'm about."

The offense hasn't finished well the past two games, scoring just 12 points since Bruce Allen was named general manager Dec. 17. So Heyer, whose contract is expiring, knows Sunday could be his final game with Washington.

"It's an interview process," he said. "Every game is important. You gotta show that you can play."

Heyer blew out his left knee during two-a-days before what should have been his senior year at Maryland. He returned the next year and surprisingly made the Redskins in 2007. He missed time with a sprained shoulder last season - losing his job to right tackle predecessor Jon Jansen in the process - and hurt the knee again late in training camp this summer when Samuels rolled him up from behind. Heyer missed a couple of practices but was in the lineup for the opener. And he has been there every week.

Ever a realist, Heyer knows he hasn't had a stellar first full campaign.

"I think it's about average play," he said. "I've had my games here and there where I've played pretty well and had my games where I didn't play so well."

Bugel said Heyer has improved as he came to accept "hard coaching." Dockery has liked what he has seen from the 6-foot-6, 330-pound Georgian.

"Stephon has a lot of heart, and he has played pretty well on that knee," Dockery said. "He has the size. He has all the tools to be a really good tackle if he puts it all together." [/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]