Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

If you're wondering just how upset coach Mike Shanahan might be that Albert Haynesworth is apparently vowing to [URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/haynesworth-to-skip-redskins-v.html"][COLOR=#0c4790]skip all of the Redskins' voluntary offseason activities[/COLOR][/URL], you're going to want to check this out.

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/albert-haynesworth/haynesworth-might-learn-a-few.html]Redskins Insider - Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer[/url]

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

I have to admit at first I didn't AH skipping out was a big deal, but it's obvious now that Shanahan really wants everyone there especially his leaders. I'm starting to see what makes this guy tick, and I like it!

He's not going to let one guy set a tone for the team. Shanahan runs this show and if you don't like it he'll ship your ass out!

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

This is what the Redskins have been missing for years...... [B][U]DISIPLINE !!!![/U][/B]

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

^^ Yup. In my everyday life, I am just not a fan of hard asses in general. As the coach of my favorite football team, however, I got nooooo problem with it.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

Good info Matty! Really allows for a peek into the mindset of Shanahan. This is just the kind of strong mentality this team has needed for a LONG TIME!

"But hey, he felt like I crossed him in some way. Once you do that, he'll never let those things go. If you cross him in some way, he'll hold on to that more than the times you've done good by him."

No more free meals with the Skins, yeah I like that too!

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

I think this should also put to bed this silly crap about Snyder still pulling strings. Imagine what he's thinking right now. I just cut a $21M check to AH and he's being shopped?

Shanahan's response?

Damn straight, this is my team.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

I think more of fact alot of people didnt want to believe it would be a factor. Ive felt he has acted like a damn kid since the last half of the season, but people give him a pass, while crushing peeps like D'Angelo or Los...I dont get it. If your making that amount of money, you need to keep your mouth shut, participate in team activities, dont talk sh*t to the media like a bitch, and be an advocate for the organization. He refuses to do any of this...he has been a major disappointment in the locker room, but great on the field when he is not injuried. And people want to make an arguement for bringing TO here...give me a f*ckin break, I dont want to see TO and Haynesworth in the same locker room together, it could be disasterous...plus for the stats guys, look at TO number the last couple years..horrible. But back to Hanynesworth, Im on the side right now of trading him for a quality O lineman or picks, f him

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

Yay! another Haynesworth thread! The only thing im concerned about now is what he's actually worth in terms of compensation. I think a low first rounder or an equivalent package of picks and/or players.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=Mattyk;685626]I think this should also put to bed this silly crap about Snyder still pulling strings. Imagine what he's thinking right now. I just cut a $21M check to AH and he's being shopped?

Shanahan's response?

Damn straight, this is my team.[/quote]

Also ought to put to bed any talk that CP's price tag is the only thing keeping him here. Allen and Shanahan are going to make this team the way the want it to be. The results will prove them right or wrong.

As for Haynesworth, I think he is smart and listening. It is a culture shock from what the Skins were and what they are now. Most players just have to accept it, Haynesworth will come to terms with it, and then we will go from there. I hope we don't trade him because we would not get anything near his ability back from any possible trade.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

Good stuff Matty.

I talked to Plummer a couple of years back and the topic of football and Shanahan came up, and let me just say he got pretty damn heated. I don't think there's any love lost there.

This whole thing in a way kind of reminds me of when Marty came in and suddenly cut Larry Centers for not going with the game plan. Keep in mind back then Centers was our offensive stud.

Still think Portis is more likely to go than AH though

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=Chico23231;685627]I think more of fact alot of people didnt want to believe it would be a factor. Ive felt he has acted like a damn kid since the last half of the season, but people give him a pass, while crushing peeps like D'Angelo or Los...I dont get it. [B]If your making that amount of money, you need to keep your mouth shut, participate in team activities[/B], dont talk sh*t to the media like a bitch, and be an advocate for the organization. He refuses to do any of this...[B]he has been a major disappointment in the locker room, but great on the field when he is not injuried[/B]. And [B]people want to make an arguement for bringing TO here...give me a f*ckin break, I dont want to see TO and Haynesworth in the same locker room together[/B], it could be disasterous...plus for the stats guys, look at TO number the last couple years..horrible. But back to Hanynesworth, [B]Im on the side right now of trading him for a quality O lineman or picks, f him[/B][/quote]

1. How bout this? He actually does show up to camp and participates and Shanahan keeps him and we have a PROVEN GREAT PLAYER instead of a prideful "pick"

2. All NFL players make a insane amount of money so, they all "[B]need to keep their mouths shut, participate in team activities[/B]". Not just AH because he was offered and accepted stupid money.

3. "he has been a major disappointment in the locker room, [B]but [I]great[/I] on the field when he is not injuried[/B]" I don't care about locker room, all I care about is on field play. I'll take "great on the field all day long!!!!

4.As far as [B][I]not[/I] wanting Haynesworth and T.O. on the same team[/B]? Yeah lets not get to much talent on one team! Give me a break! A

5. Trade Haynesworth? "[B]right now of trading him for a [I]quality[/I] O lineman[/B]" Just because our D is stronger than our O, thats no reason to take away from one to add to another. Thats how you build a mediocre team not a dominate one!

Im for hoping AH comes around and continuing to be a dominate force for the skins!!!

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

I like instilling discipline in the team. If you think back to every winning streak of substance that we've had since 2000, it took place under a disciplined coach. Marty got us to finish 8-3 after a 0-5 start. Gibbs had two big finishes to the season to qualify for the playoffs. So I love that Shanahan's got that approach.

But there are a number of things to reconcile here. We can draw comparisons between Haynesworth and Plummer, but the bottom line is Shanahan drafted Cutler at 11th overall, so he already had Plummer's replacement lined up. He doesn't have any semblance of replacement for Albert Haynesworth.

That's why you hear Schefter say we're not actively trying to shop him. The thinking on Haynesworth is likely that, for the right player or package, we'll move him. After all, we did try to move him for McNabb. But since we don't have a remotely adequate replacement at NT, we can't move him unless the package really is that appealing.

Unlike Plummer, it will be hard for us to move Haynesworth for a package good enough to make it worth the massive hole we'll have at the NT position.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

Why don't they just make these damn workouts mandatory? Every year we go through this shit with at least a team.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=Ruhskins;685645]Why don't they just make these damn workouts mandatory? Every year we go through this shit with at least a team.[/quote]

Because they can't per the collective bargaining agreement.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=Schneed10;685647]Because they can't per the collective bargaining agreement.[/quote]

Then coaches need to stop making such big f'ing deal out of it. Basically in any situation it becomes an "unwritten" rule then, and it is annoying and distracting (by both sides, players and coaches).

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=Ruhskins;685645]Why don't they just make these damn workouts mandatory? Every year we go through this shit with at least a team.[/quote]

I think this is an excellent point!

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=44ever;685637]1. How bout this? He actually does show up to camp and participates and Shanahan keeps him and we have a PROVEN GREAT PLAYER instead of a prideful "pick"

2. All NFL players make a insane amount of money so, they all "[B]need to keep their mouths shut, participate in team activities[/B]". Not just AH because he was offered and accepted stupid money.

3. "he has been a major disappointment in the locker room, [B]but [I]great[/I] on the field when he is not injuried[/B]" I don't care about locker room, all I care about is on field play. I'll take "great on the field all day long!!!!

4.As far as [B][I]not[/I] wanting Haynesworth and T.O. on the same team[/B]? Yeah lets not get to much talent on one team! Give me a break! A

5. Trade Haynesworth? "[B]right now of trading him for a [I]quality[/I] O lineman[/B]" Just because our D is stronger than our O, thats no reason to take away from one to add to another. Thats how you build a mediocre team not a dominate one!

Im for hoping AH comes around and continuing to be a dominate force for the skins!!![/quote]

I would love Hanyesworth to show up and act like a proffessional and be a contributing factor all season long. Then just do it??!! Ill take great on the field too that is why I mentioned it. Im not saying he is not a force, he can be dominant, ill give credit where it is do. Yes he can keep his mouth shut and act like everyone should and mostly does, a professional. That is not too much to ask, and IT IS EXPECTED. All these factors do contribute to Haynesworth possibly being let go or traded, Shanny has the rep, the article is a backing piece. If he cant get with the program, then trade him for good/great Olineman and a pick...Haynesworth best use anyway is a 4-3 DT, not anywhere in a 3-4, plus insiders have stated he prefers not to play nosetackle....and TO is old and talent has certainly dwindled, he is not a great player anymore and Bruce Allen is certainly is going to pay him what he wants, tooooooooo bad.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=Chico23231;685662]I would love Hanyesworth to show up and act like a proffessional and be a contributing factor all season long. Then just do it??!! Ill take great on the field too that is why I mentioned it. Im not saying he is not a force, he can be dominant, ill give credit where it is do. Yes he can keep his mouth shut and act like everyone should and mostly does, a professional. That is not too much to ask, and IT IS EXPECTED. All these factors do contribute to Haynesworth possibly being let go or traded, Shanny has the rep, the article is a backing piece. If he cant get with the program, then trade him for good/great Olineman and a pick...Haynesworth best use anyway is a 4-3 DT, not anywhere in a 3-4, plus insiders have stated he prefers not to play nosetackle....and TO is old and talent has certainly dwindled, he is not a great player anymore and Bruce Allen is certainly is going to pay him what he wants, tooooooooo bad.[/quote]

Well brother, from what we learned from this thread, if he doesn't show up, he could very well be gone. I hope not.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

I've spent all morning analyzing JR's post and found some of the comments most interesting. A very diversified group of responses. Someone posted the question, where is the PU in all of this, or is this a line they just don't want to cross?

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

Why would the players union get involved at all? AH isn't obligated to show, but at the same time the Skins aren't doing anything wrong by shopping him. Neither side is technically in the wrong, they just aren't on the same page.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=Mattyk;685674]Why would the players union get involved at all? AH isn't obligated to show, but at the same time the Skins aren't doing anything wrong by shopping him. Neither side is technically in the wrong, they just aren't on the same page.[/quote]

That's a good question. My only reason to mention was because it was an obvious concern of a post reader, and I usually take a few moments each morning to read the various comments.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

Seems like Shanahan is a subscriber to that old prison adage...

"On day one, you walk up to biggest, baddest dude in the joint and a) become his bitch, or b) punch him in the face. Either way, you're making the point that you are not to be f**&^d with"

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=Schneed10;685642]I like instilling discipline in the team. If you think back to every winning streak of substance that we've had since 2000, it took place under a disciplined coach. Marty got us to finish 8-3 after a 0-5 start. Gibbs had two big finishes to the season to qualify for the playoffs. So I love that Shanahan's got that approach.

But there are a number of things to reconcile here. We can draw comparisons between Haynesworth and Plummer, but the bottom line is Shanahan drafted Cutler at 11th overall, so he already had Plummer's replacement lined up. He doesn't have any semblance of replacement for Albert Haynesworth.

That's why you hear Schefter say we're not actively trying to shop him. The thinking on Haynesworth is likely that, for the right player or package, we'll move him. After all, we did try to move him for McNabb. But since we don't have a remotely adequate replacement at NT, we can't move him unless the package really is that appealing.

Unlike Plummer, it will be hard for us to move Haynesworth for a package good enough to make it worth the massive hole we'll have at the NT position.[/quote]

I don't think of discipline when I hear Joe Gibbs name. I let too much slide his second time here and I think those two runs for the playoffs was more of the team ralling around him.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

Discipline is one of the major missing ingredients for this team. Better to endure some short term financial pain for future long term success. CLEAN HOUSE and send the message that the leader of this asylum will NOT BE RUN BY THE INMATES!

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=firstdown;685686]I don't think of discipline when I hear Joe Gibbs name. I let too much slide his second time here and I think those two runs for the playoffs was more of the team ralling around him.[/quote]

There are different types of discipline.

Gibbs wasn't a stickler or control freak, but he definitely had control and the respect of the locker room at all times.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=Mc2guy;685683]Seems like Shanahan is a subscriber to that old prison adage...

"On day one, you walk up to biggest, baddest dude in the joint and a) become his bitch, or b) punch him in the face. Either way, you're making the point that you are not to be f**&^d with"[/quote]


I love it!!!

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=Mattyk;685689]There are different types of discipline.

Gibbs wasn't a stickler or control freak, but [B]he definitely had control and the respect of the locker room at all times.[/B][/quote]

I also think he had favorites. While he had control and respect, there may have been some resentment between players as to the preferential treatment some seemed to receive. I think it's pretty clear from some of the comments made at the time and since that there were players who "had the ear of the coach" even under Gibbs. Maybe it wasn't too much of a problem b/c Gibbs knew how to manage the prima donnas.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;685723]I also think he had favorites. While he had control and respect, there may have been some resentment between players as to the preferential treatment some seemed to receive. I think it's pretty clear from some of the comments made at the time and since that there were players who "had the ear of the coach" even under Gibbs. Maybe it wasn't too much of a problem b/c Gibbs knew how to manage the prima donnas.[/quote]


Oh yeah no doubt. He definitely treated some of his stars and leaders differently.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

Yeah, I've heard stuff like this about Shanahan. I heard in his last year in Denver he was ready to just flat out cut Brandon Marshall. Not trade, just cut. That would have been epically stupid. I'm all about discipline, but not to the point where your ego becomes a detriment to the team.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=GMScud;685726]Yeah, I've heard stuff like this about Shanahan. I heard in his last year in Denver he was ready to just flat out cut Brandon Marshall. Not trade, just cut. That would have been epically stupid. I'm all about discipline, [B]but not to the point where your ego becomes a detriment to the team.[/B][/quote]

Very good point. Which is why this whole Haynesworth situation doesn't sit well with me. I can maybe agree with the whole workout situation, although to me this whole deal with "voluntary" workout is very stupid. However, it bothers me that Shanahan and Co. would want to play AH out of position as a 3-4 NT. AH has gone on record saying that he'll play whatever position the team wants him to play, but I do agree with him that he'd be a force at DE.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=GMScud;685726]Yeah, I've heard stuff like this about Shanahan. I heard in his last year in Denver he was ready to just flat out cut Brandon Marshall. Not trade, just cut. That would have been epically stupid. I'm all about discipline, but not to the point where your ego becomes a detriment to the team.[/quote]

True, but what message would it send when you have every player on the team except ONE participating in the OTAs and workout program. Doesn't that signal that the ONE player is being treated differently?

I think MS is sending a message to the team: "I am fair, I am even-handed, I want equality." Primadonnas might not like that message, but the 52 other guys on the starting roster will appreciate that and it will prevent resentment in the locker room.

CP is a perfect example...clearly there is a ton of resentment toward CP from other players about the special treatment he has received over the years. MS is just letting folks know that he's not going to tolerate that. I think he'll make more allies from the players because of it, rather than enemies.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=Mattyk;685621]I have to admit at first I didn't AH skipping out was a big deal, but it's obvious now that Shanahan really wants everyone there especially his leaders. I'm starting to see what makes this guy tick, and I like it!

He's not going to let one guy set a tone for the team. Shanahan runs this show and if you don't like it he'll ship your ass out![/quote]
I get that, but some people have other obligations too. I think that Shanahan should be okay as long as you're not missing them frequently and keep him in the know/have a good reason to be out.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=GMScud;685726]Yeah, I've heard stuff like this about Shanahan. I heard in his last year in Denver he was ready to just flat out cut Brandon Marshall. Not trade, just cut. That would have been epically stupid. I'm all about discipline, but not to the point where your ego becomes a detriment to the team.[/quote]
Couldn't agree more.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=tryfuhl;685736]I get that, but some people have other obligations too. I think that Shanahan should be okay as long as you're not missing them frequently and keep him in the know/have a good reason to be out.[/quote]

Right on Bro!

Furthermore:

"On Saturday, Kelli Johnson, one of my favorite people at Comcast Sports Net, Tweeted that Albert Haynesworth reported for last week's orientation at Redskins Park but missed the workouts of the offseason conditioning program."

"Kelli is among the best reporters in the market, and her information, once again, is dead-on accurate. Haynesworth did not participate in the opening week of conditioning and film study at the complex."

[B][I]"But here's the thing: He never intended to and the Redskins were made aware of his plans, people familiar with the situation said.[/I][/B] There was a lot of Internet speculation that Haynesworth would skip all of last week's events at the complex because he's supposedly upset about having to play nose tackle more frequently than he would prefer in the Redskins' new base 3-4 defense."

"Haynesworth is following an intense offseason workout program under the guidance of the same trainer who helped him reach all-pro status during the 2007-08 seasons"

Read More: [url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/haynesworths-workout-regime.html]Redskins Insider - Haynesworth's workout regime[/url]

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

I talked to my source in Idaho and he told me with absolute certainty that he has has never heard of Plummer missing a voluntary handball workout.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=44ever;685745]

[B][I]"But here's the thing: He never intended to and the Redskins were made aware of his plans, people familiar with the situation said.[/I][/B] There was a lot of Internet speculation that Haynesworth would skip all of last week's events at the complex because he's supposedly upset about having to play nose tackle more frequently than he would prefer in the Redskins' new base 3-4 defense."

"Haynesworth is following an intense offseason workout program under the guidance of the same trainer who helped him reach all-pro status during the 2007-08 seasons"

Read More: [URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/haynesworths-workout-regime.html"]Redskins Insider - Haynesworth's workout regime[/URL][/quote]
Yeah, dude probably had his plans made before he even saw the offseason program plans. With apparently how unorganized it's been the past couple of years he probably decided that he needed to get more individual attention and be part of a structured program. Hell he might have already paid his trainer before all of this got underway.

As long as he's not punting away balls in practice a la Brandon Marshall I'm not going to worry about Big Al too much.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

Part of Shanny's problem in Denver seemed to be his "I am a genius" ego. It's a tough line: Blinded By Ego v. Taking A Stance To Change Culture.

Again, this is one we as fans will just have to wait and see on. I think near the end of his tenure in Denver, Shanny was really scapegoating people particularly Def. Coord's - he went through 4 in his last 6 years. He is a fantastic coach, no doubt BUT even a fantastic coach needs to have some ability to question himself. I think near the end in Denver he simply refused to self-examine. According to the reports, however, he learned during his time off.

I got no problem with Shanny taking a hard-line stance. He's the coach and that's his perogative. If, however, he starts making decisions for the sole purpose of "You disagreed with me, therefore you're sh**", that could be problematic.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=GMScud;685726]Yeah, I've heard stuff like this about Shanahan. I heard in his last year in Denver he was ready to just flat out cut Brandon Marshall. Not trade, just cut. That would have been epically stupid.[B] I'm all about discipline, but not to the point where your ego becomes a detriment to the team[/B].[/quote]

:thumb:

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;685774]Part of Shanny's problem in Denver seemed to be his "I am a genius" ego. It's a tough line: Blinded By Ego v. Taking A Stance To Change Culture.

Again, this is one we as fans will just have to wait and see on. I think near the end of his tenure in Denver, Shanny was really scapegoating people particularly Def. Coord's - he went through 4 in his last 6 years. He is a fantastic coach, no doubt BUT even a fantastic coach needs to have some ability to question himself. I think near the end in Denver he simply refused to self-examine. According to the reports, however, he learned during his time off.

I got no problem with Shanny taking a hard-line stance. He's the coach and that's his perogative. If, however, he starts making decisions for the sole purpose of "You disagreed with me, therefore you're sh**", that could be problematic.[/quote]
Yeah, it's no secret that his last 3 years coaching were nothing to write home about. In fact, they were already at home since they didn't make it to the playoffs. I too hold promise that he figured that he can't be the only guy running the show. He should definitely be able to get our club turned around, just hoping that once we hit that hill that we can roll right over it.

Re: Haynesworth might learn a few things about Shanahan from Plummer
 

[quote=Ruhskins;685728]Very good point. Which is why this whole Haynesworth situation doesn't sit well with me. I can maybe agree with the whole workout situation, although to me this whole deal with "voluntary" workout is very stupid. However, it bothers me that Shanahan and Co. would want to play AH out of position as a 3-4 NT. AH has gone on record saying that he'll play whatever position the team wants him to play, but I do agree with him that he'd be a force at DE.[/quote]

I have spoken to some people recently who wonder if this whole thing with Haynesworth is not being done out of retalliation because Shanahan was dissapointed in the fact he chose an off-season conditioning program that didn't coinside with what he wanted.

I have no problem with discipline, but discipline and revenge are two different things. Having a HC that controlling can eventually cause internal strife. It may not happen right away because it's all new to the guys right now, but down the line I could see it working to his disadvantage.