I'm Lost
 

As a team and as a organization we have to take along long look in the mirror. The way we go about our buisness isn't working. If we are to look at this as a business I'm losing money, there is NO productivity on the field.

Every year its the same, we spend the most money, we trade away draft picks, we have a top 5 team on paper and what happens WE LOSE...... It's was funny watching espn on sunday when Marty was interviewed; he was asked what is the biggest difference between Washington and San Diego and his response was "we had more time".

I'll give Joe 1 more year or maybe 2 but we have to change the way we do buisness. We have to cut the fat NOW before we end up like the Niners.

Gibbs for another 5 years is what the Redskins need. Marty is right it takes time to put in a system. If he had stayed we would have been better off then we where with the old ball coach SS. That's for sure.
I'll give Joe as long as it takes.

Gibbs is here for the long haul. Hopefully that will give him enough time to turn this thing around. I think we have solid foundation, but we're still making too many mistakes. It's been the same mistakes for the past 3 years.

Yeah sometimes people get into this rut of giving the coach one or two years and that is it. Obviously if the coach's success is declining over the years that is one thing, but to build a team that is going to be successful for years to come, it takes longer than one season..heck it might take three, but I would rather wait for three more seasons of rebuilding and have about 8 seasons of elite success than to have one winning season and let it all fall apart the next year...*cough cough* Carolina Panthers.

Speaking of the Panthers is Stephen Davis even playing this year?

[QUOTE=juggernaunt]As a team and as a organization we have to take along long look in the mirror. The way we go about our buisness isn't working. If we are to look at this as a business I'm losing money, there is NO productivity on the field.

Every year its the same, we spend the most money, we trade away draft picks, we have a top 5 team on paper and what happens WE LOSE...... It's was funny watching espn on sunday when Marty was interviewed; he was asked what is the biggest difference between Washington and San Diego and his response was "we had more time".

I'll give Joe 1 more year or maybe 2 but we have to change the way we do buisness. We have to cut the fat NOW before we end up like the Niners.[/QUOTE]Time is the thing we need, like Marty has been given in SD, yet you're only willing to give Gibbs 1 or maybe 2 more years??

Then what? Back to the same old drawing board?

Guys - it's not the losses that discourage people such as myself. It's the MANNER of the losses. The playcalling, the penelties, clock management. All the things that should be alleviated with a HOF head coach. He seems stubborn to change his ways, which is frightening.

he look more lost out there than even spurrier did, that frightens me even more

Playcalling, clock management, penalities, and EXECUTION.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Guys - it's not the losses that discourage people such as myself. It's the MANNER of the losses. The playcalling, the penelties, clock management. All the things that should be alleviated with a HOF head coach. He seems stubborn to change his ways, which is frightening.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree D. He will get it worked out, but the penalties, play execution, playcalling, clock management, challenges, and poor ref calls has made this season absolutely miserable. I don't think I've ever been this down (but resolved) as a 'Skins fan.

I expected Gibbs to go 9-7 this season and I thought I was being conservative. I thought we'd lose some close ones due to our schedule, but I didn't expect to be 3-7 at this point due to poor play and poor play-calling.

[quote]Marty was interviewed; he was asked what is the biggest difference between Washington and San Diego and his response was "we had more time".

I'll give Joe 1 more year or maybe 2 but we have to change the way we do buisness.[/quote]
hmm, that's not hypocritical at all :P

and as a business the redskins are the best of the best... most profitable football team period, and if you compare profits to its on-field performance, they're the best sports team (as a business) in the world ;)

The play calling is only an issue because Gibbs cannot trust the team to be able to carry out even the simplist game plans. No matter how good the play calling is your players taking the ball at the ten and then moving it backwards 20 yards takes away a great deal of options to you . If your QB, the 9th best passer in NFL history, cannot complete even the simplest of dump off paterns you just do not put the ball in his hands trying to hold onto a lead.

Sure penalties are killing us but they have been over the last X number of years Gibbs has inheritied a undiciplined team two years under Spurrier hasnt helped but it is a big ship there is no way he can turn it around in one season .

If you are disapointed in Gibbs as a HC then you might want to have a look at your expectations of a team that imploded last year down the stretch had their HC WALK OUT on them and have had 1 play off appearnace in the last 10 years. Yes it hurts to loose but the solution is surly not to make the same mistakewe do every year and replace the coaching staff... again as some are advocating.. look at the Steelers they have been horrible, absolutly horrible under Cowher(sp?) he stuck with truly bad QBs made bad decisions but has been given time and now look good for a deap playoff run maybe even into the bowl, in fact all the best teams have been through bad times with thier coaching staff the difference is they stucked it in and stuck it out and are reaping what they have sown just as we are reaping the rewards of instability in the FO, coaching staff and constant roster turn over.

Gibbs warned everyone before the season this could be rough and he had no guarantees for instant success, and he reminded us of that in his press conference yesterday.

I guess a lot of us didn't want to hear that, I'll admit I'm guilty of that.

Matty, I understand rough. But let our guys go DOWNFIELD. If you don't trust the players, they won't trust you.

Someone asked about Stephen Davis. He has a leg injury that might end his career.

Let's at least give Gibbs until the end of the season with Ramsey to say what he will and won't do as a coach. He said that they only had about 5 downfield plays planned for last week because of the style of defense the Eagles play. Expect more of the same this week against the Steelers, lots of slants and in-routes I would suspect since we ran the WR screen into the ground last week. The execution, penalties, challenges, etc. are things that need to improve, but have dogged us for years. Maybe it's the players? Hmm..

S davis had something like 92 yards in 2 games this year, had a knee injury (same knee that bothered him while he was here i think), and got shoved on IR, had career threatening surgery, and probably won't attempt to play a down until 2006... (foster had the same surgery and was out for a year)...

Why? Both the Eagles and the Steelers have fairly bad corners and the Steelers safeties are horrible in coverage but are great against the hit. Make them cover. We need more 3/4 WR sets and we need to go deep OCCASSIONALLY. I want to see mid range passing. 7-12 yards. Let our guys get YAC, but give them some YPC.

Then we make them respect the pass and spread them out for Portis to have a big day.

I agree with the complaints about the playcalling. The offense has been especially maddening this year, especially as compared to last season when our offense was capable of putting up points but we couldn't stop anybody. It's just a different side of the coin, but it's even more frustrating considering we've got Joe Gibbs on the sidelines and if Gibbs is known for anything it's offense.

It's coming, and I sure hope we get 5 full years of Joe Gibbs. I thought we'd go 9-7 this year, but then again I thought we'd win more games than the Cowboys last year too. It's more of a matter of when with the Skins these days, all we need is one guy to make somebody miss or break a tackle or hit on one downfield throw. Right now Gibbs is coaching not to lose, because Ramsey has shown a propensity to throw picks in bunches.

It's impossible for Gibbs to throw downfield because the o-line is not giving the qb much time. I heard somebody say something about the 7 step drops being the problem, but it's the line's inability to give our qb any time to go through his reads. Look how Philly handled our blitz, while McNabb was hurried and harassed, he wasn't hit (except for that blast from Haley) and he had time to go through his reads. Once we get our line up to an acceptable level, then we'll see a more dynamic gameplan. Right now Gibbs has to keep the qb upright first, then we can worry about where to throw. But Ramsey has enough trouble hitting the underneath stuff, he's got to walk before he can run.

Trying to go long on Pittsburgh might work, but it's going to be a long day for us. Hope G. Williams has a plan to stop the bus.

Besides most of the educated fans on this site. Are we to blame for wanting Marty
Schottenheimer out of here? Finishing up in his first season 8-8 wasn't enough. Martyball was too boring right? So Snyder, the marketing business man he is, sought out the Fun 'n Gun. You know the rest. Dear Consumer, be careful what you ask for, with Snyder you just might get it.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Matty, I understand rough. But let our guys go DOWNFIELD. If you don't trust the players, they won't trust you.[/QUOTE]


They did go downfield on at least 3 or 4 plays and the WR's were wide open - In Gibbs offense, just as it was in the 80's, the QB has to hit a couple of these to make it work. (That is NOT a knock on Ramsey. I think he and WR's just need a few game speed reps to get his timing right).

That's Gibbs game. It was the same in 80's. Dink dink dink POW. Sundays game is a W if Ramsey hooks up with LC and McCants on two of the plays they are running free.

Gibbs only takes a few shots down the field per game - he sets the long strike up with the shorter stuff and the running game. The difference between now and 15 years ago was that at least one (if not two) of the plays on Sunday would have been TD's.

I was, however, surprised at the lack of play action. Did I miss them on Sunday? I don't remember any. Since everybody is stacking the line on us, I would expect to see more of it.

The lack of play action suprised me as well. Espcially the way we just kept running and running and runnign to start the game. I thought for sure it was all just to set up a big play action pass.

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin]I was, however, surprised at the lack of play action. Did I miss them on Sunday? I don't remember any. Since everybody is stacking the line on us, I would expect to see more of it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]The lack of play action suprised me as well. Espcially the way we just kept running and running and runnign to start the game. I thought for sure it was all just to set up a big play action pass.[/QUOTE]

Isn't it kind of pointless to try play-action when you're top running back carried the ball only 4.25 times [B]PER QUARTER[/B]? I expected more than 37 yards on 17 carries against a defense that was having trouble stopping the run.

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Isn't it kind of pointless to try play-action when you're top running back carried the ball only 4.25 times [B]PER QUARTER[/B]? I expected more than 37 yards on 17 carries against a defense that was having trouble stopping the run.[/QUOTE]
Almost half of Portis' runs were in the 1st quarter....so why did they abandon the run so early? They weren't down by more than a TD until late in the 3rd.... :confused:

We started to give Betts more of the workload in the 2nd quarter. For what reason, I don't know. But, Portis was averaging about 1.5 yards per carry at the end of the 1st quarter.

Daseal, I don't agree that the Eagles don't have good corners. Shepard and Brown were 1st and 2nd rounders. They're young, but talented.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]We started to give Betts more of the workload in the 2nd quarter. For what reason, I don't know. But, Portis was averaging about 1.5 yards per carry at the end of the 1st quarter.

Daseal, I don't agree that the Eagles don't have good corners. Shepard and Brown were 1st and 2nd rounders. They're young, but talented.[/QUOTE]

Talk about a good draft. In 2002, Philly selected Lito Sheppard (CB, Florida) in the first round, Michael Lewis (DB, Colorado), and Sheldon Brown (DB, South Carolina) both in the second round. Many said that the Eagles deliberately drafted this way as an answer to our pass happy Fun-N-Gun. Turns out they're able to let go of Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent, start Brown and Sheppard at cornerback and they didn't miss a damn beat -- not against us anyway.

Yeah, they've got a very good secondary. Many are saying that Brown is having a Pro-Bowl year. I haven't seen enough of him to say that, but I hope he doesn't bump Smoot or Springs if he gets a bid.

You're right RF. They are good, but they are YOUNG. Our experienced WRs should have been able to work them (and our WRs did get wide open down field a few times but we didn't get the ball to them.) Thats the main reason I wanted to go down field more.

I agree Daseal. I wanted to see some deep balls. I think Coles could've burned em.