Surtain: Given permission to seek trade
 

[URL=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1981681]ESPN REPORTS ON SURTAIN[/URL]

This is good news for the Skins as I'm sure Danny Boy would love to sign Surtain in the midst of losing Smoot.

Surtain is overall a more experience CB & might opt to sign with the Skins on a long-term, rather then a [I]"show-me-the-money"[/I] Smoots cash cow attitude.

I would totally jump at the chance to send Smoot packing for Patrick to suit up in Burg. & Gold. :biggthump

[QUOTE=ChounsMan]Surtain is overall a more experience CB & might opt to sign with the Skins on a long-term, rather then a [I]"show-me-the-money"[/I] Smoots cash cow attitude.

I would totally jump at the chance to send Smoot packing for Patrick to suit up in Burg. & Gold. :biggthump[/QUOTE]
The problem with that is that [B]no athlete[/B] is going to offer Dan Snyder a bargain. His history of, shall we say, "paying well" makes it unlikely an elite CB is going to take a smaller payday than he can get elsewhere.

There's no way Surtain is going to come cheaper than Smoot.

He's a 3-time Pro Bowler and one of the top corners in the league, why would he be looking for a bargain contract??

This would be a perfect example of coveting everyone elses players over your own. Snyder has done this throughout his tenure. I thought we were past moves like this...

How about WR Gardner for Surtain? Surtain is only 28.

Not to take anything away from Smotty, I like him but he is not as good as Patrick Surtain.
If we are going to pay a Cb big money, I would give it to Surtain over Smoot. I still remember this years preaseason game against the rams and how their WR spun smott round like a top. Made him look bad on national tv. I don't think that would repeatedly happen to Surtain in one game like it did to Smoot.

Gardner for Surtain? I'd even throw in a 4 round pick

I like that are the Dolphins dumb enough too do it?

I agree that Surtain would be an upgrade (terms of talent) over Smoot. However, even if Surtain can come for the same price, I would stick with Smoot simply because he has been with the team for years and it's important to keep continuity on a squad (just look at the Patriots). We don't need talent as much as a bunch of solid team players, good coaching, and hard work. Also, Smoot is younger than Surtain. But, if we can get Surtain for less . . .

The money we'd be paying Surtain would be probabaly more than Smoot would ask honestly.

id do gardner for surtain. that would be a great trade for both teams potentially. Hell give um chad morton too, they need a starting hb, lol

Hahaha... Morton at tailback.

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]The money we'd be paying Surtain would be probabaly more than Smoot would ask honestly.[/QUOTE]


So you have to ask yourself the same question the Skins front office is asking.... [I]"Is Smoot worth the money he's asking for?"[/I]

I think he's worth it, but with the signing bonus he's asking he's putting the Skin's future cap in total shams.

I honestly would not pay him anything over what the Skins offered. In turn I would probably draft a CB with the 3rd rd pick & look to start Harris. Greg Williams has the scheme the Skin's D needs to be effective w/o paying a tremendous amount of $$$CASH$$$

Plus Sean "Hitman" Taylor will be better seasoned to play a much larger roll in the Skins D. I would have to think that shifting him over to the strong side or on the side where the other teams #1 WR is discourages a QB to try & thread the needle. Regardless, if Smoot or Harris are lined up.

I don't know if paying more for a more experienced CB is an option. I think that's the problem with what Smoot is asking. I don't know how negotiations work, but if Surtain was interested in playing for the Skins, they maybe they could be like "Look Smoot, this is what Surtain is willing to take." Then again, someone said something about Snyder paying handsomely, so that might not be an option.

Why would we ever sign Surtain, who's going to cost a ton of money, when we could sign a younger guy who's loved by the city (Smoot)? We're not going to sign/trade for this guy.

We have to overpay everyone to come here because everyone wants to go to a Super Bowl contender and few in the league see us as a playoff contender.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]We have to overpay everyone to come here because everyone wants to go to a Super Bowl contender and few in the league see us as a playoff contender.[/QUOTE]

Right on. Gibbs is trying to reestablish team chemistry with REAL REDSKINS, of which I believe Smoot is one. The last thing we need to do is bring in more hired guns. Pay fair market value for Smoot, just don't mortgage the future for one player.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Why would we ever sign Surtain, who's going to cost a ton of money, when we could sign a younger guy who's loved by the city (Smoot)? We're not going to sign/trade for this guy.

We have to overpay everyone to come here because everyone wants to go to a Super Bowl contender and few in the league see us as a playoff contender.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree. I'm just saying that the Redskins could use comparative offers to see if Smoot wants to be the team player he says he is. I want him to come back so bad, and nothing would upset me more than to see him on another team, BUT both sides need to meet in the middle. I think the Redskins should lower to 12 mil and he should just deal with the fact he won't get 14 mil.

everyoen agrees to pay smoot fair market value, except smoot. thats where the problem lies

Surtain's value
 

So many times on this board, people were quick to point out things about our corner backs getting burned because we don't, and didn't have a pass rush for some time(this is mainly in regard to Champ getting toasted on occassion). Now look at the Dolphins. They are, and have been a pretty damn good defense with a lot of studs all over defense. Does Surtain look as good as he did in Miami as he would with a team where he is left out there all day. I just think the talent level in football is so close, that a solid group of players makes a lot of the guys look like probowlers(Eagles for one, these guys do nothing on other teams when they leave). In other words, lets try to keep what we have, and stop paying too much for a couple guys and find we can't keep our CORE guys.

Yup, I just wish both sides could find some kind of middle ground. Anyone know who Smoot's agent is?

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Why would we ever sign Surtain, who's going to cost a ton of money, when we could sign a younger guy who's loved by the city (Smoot)? We're not going to sign/trade for this guy.... [/QUOTE]

For two reasons:

1) Surtain is better than Smoot

2) Smoot is asking for top $. Smoot is not deserving of top CB money, Surtain is.

I agree Surtain would be a luxory we probably do not need, given our other needs. But I am against giving Smoot top 5 CB money. You guys may really love him, but there are other great CB's.

[QUOTE=Defensewins]For two reasons:

1) Surtain is better than Smoot

2) Smoot is asking for top $. Smoot is not deserving of top CB money, Surtain is.

I agree Surtain would be a luxory we probably do not need, given our other needs. But I am against giving Smoot top 5 CB money. You guys may really love him, but there are other great CB's.[/QUOTE]

agreed, agreed, agreed

I definitely agree there are better CBs, but the cost to bring them here is what we are trying to avoid. Smoot definitely doesn't deserve top CB money, and if he won't accept the deal the Redskins are trying to give him, I don't think another team will want to pay him that cash either, especially with Surtain on the market.

Smoot has improved but I dont think he is a top corner. He makes a lot of mental mistakes still. Surtain is a great corner and is better. Smoot is a 'core guy' but part of what gibbs wants in a core guy is that he doesnt ask to be overpaid, and makes sacrifices to play on our team. Its hard for us to not overpay since as someone pointed out, we arent exactly competing as of late. but Gibbs is trying to change that.

As I said before, I wish someone would just suck it up and do something about it, Smoot more than the Redskins. If the Redskins bow to his demands then any other Joe Schmoe on the team that is overarchieving will ask to be paid more than their value.

OK, just to interject some sense into the Surtain talk...

There is NO WAY the Dolphins would take Gardner for Surtain... even if you threw in a 4th round pick. It would take Gardner and our NUMBER 1 PICK... or a franchise and trade of Smoot (a la Chump Bailey) AND Gardner to the even ENTICE the Dolphins into giving up Surtain.


Surtain is DEFINITELY worth a look for us. If Smoot is demanding the same salary as Surtain... you HAVE to go Surtain. He is bigger, plays tougher, and has the most (BY FAR) INTs in the NFL the past 3 years.


Personally, I'd TRY to do it. If nothing else, it could drive the asking price for Gardner for teams like the Bucs who are interested.

Hmmm... what about packaging Gardner and Smoot together if that kind of situation arose?

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]Smoot has improved but I dont think he is a top corner. He makes a lot of mental mistakes still. Surtain is a great corner and is better. Smoot is a 'core guy' but part of what gibbs wants in a core guy is that he doesnt ask to be overpaid, and makes sacrifices to play on our team. Its hard for us to not overpay since as someone pointed out, we arent exactly competing as of late. but Gibbs is trying to change that.[/QUOTE]

Don't all players essentially ask to be overpaid and then hope that the final deal is at their market worth. If you think you're worth $12 million for example, chances are you're going to start off by asking for $14 million. It doesn't seem like Surtain is making sacrifices to be on the Dolphins so in that sense he's no more/less of a "core guy" than Smoot is to the Redskins right now

the dolphins cant afford him, they are 16 million over the cap as it is already.

no Surtain, he's not an answer he's to old, and to expensive

28 is too old? How old is Smoot, 26...27...?

for the amount that he'll ask for and the compensation that Miami will want, I'd rather go after someone younger like phil buccanon of oakland

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]no Surtain, he's not an answer he's to old, and to expensive[/QUOTE]

I agree about the expensive part, but Surtain is only 28, same age as the guy you want in your signature.

Yeah, I always think its funny how someone is starting to get old at 30. :)

It wouldn't hurt to offer Surtain the same contract we have for Smoot. Miami has been a sucker for ex-Skins bums like Derrius Thompson and Sage Rosenfels. Maybe they'll take the bait for Gardner too.

If we could get surtain for the same money we are offering smoot and can deal gardner and smoot for him i think its a steal, hell find some way to package jason taylor for our first.( I realize it is not feasible but im trying to start shit)

There have been a lot of rumors out of Miami of a Patrick Surtain for Edgerrin James trade, sort of like the Champ-Portis trade from last off-season

[QUOTE=smootsmack]There have been a lot of rumors out of Miami of a Patrick Surtain for Edgerrin James trade, sort of like the Champ-Portis trade from last off-season[/QUOTE]

Hard to see Indy breaking up that trio, but then again they could really use a shutdown corner like Surtain. And it's not like they don't have quality depth at RB.