Unemployment
 

I am currently unemployed! Huzzah!

So I got laid off today for the first time in my life. I've been working since I was 16 so I guess it was bound to happen someday.

My question is this, my employer (located in Virginia) cited "performance issues" as the reason they let me go. Which means getting anything from unemployment is probably out of the question. I haven't filed yet. I was also employed there for 6 months.

But I do have issues with this, and I was wondering if it would matter that 2 things happened:

1) They never approached me SAYING they had an issue with my performance. Not even in passing. Earlier, maybe 2-3 months into the job they pulled my aside and said hey work on this, work on this, you gotta do this better. Not long after that, they had mentioned that I was doing a lot better. Since then, they never said a word about me under performing.

2) Since THEY never approached me, I always approached THEM to ask about my performance. The last time I did approach them to ask how I was doing (which was early in December) and if there was anything I could do better, I was told "No, you're doing just fine." Unfortunately, I don't have any documentation that those meetings happened.

I wondered if any of this mattered if I ended up filing an appeal for unemployment. Or trying to file at all. I might not and just try to throw as many resumes out there as I can in a few days and see if anything sticks before the end of the month.

Re: Unemployment
 

i dont really think that matters, just how long you were employed and that you're now unemployeed.

Re: Unemployment
 

As long as you voluntarily didn't quit i believe they owe you unemployment.

Re: Unemployment
 

I've got hiring and firing responsibilities in my job, so maybe my perspective will be useful.

First off, it's important that we get clear on whether you got laid off or terminated. If you are being let go because of performance issues, then you're being terminated (aka fired). In that case, the job opens up for them to fill it with somebody else. And in that case you're not eligible for unemployment benefits.

If you were laid off, that means your job was cut from the organization and you were the casualty. In a lay off it does not have to be a performance issue driving the decision (it's most often a cost based decision). This means the job is gone, the company can not find someone else to take your place. And you will be eligible for unemployment benefits.

So I'm not totally clear on which of those you just experienced. My first piece of advice is that you get 100% clarity from your employer on that. My second piece of advice is that you contact an attorney.

Employers are required to perform annual documented performance reviews. I'm not sure if this applies to smaller employers, or if it's a federal rule or a state rule. All I know is that I am required by law to conduct formal performance reviews with each of my staff at least annually. There are rules in place at my firm (again, not sure if these rules are mandated by law or just by my organization) that say that if I have a performance problem with an employee, I have to notifiy them in writing and give them at least 90 days to turn it around, at which time I'll have another formal evaluation.

Sounds like none of the above happened with you. If you were terminated, then you may have a wrongful termination case on your hands. If you were laid off, then your manager is an idiot and should not have cited performance issues. Talk to your employer again and then to a lawyer. Or maybe even the lawyer first.

Great advice, Schneed.

Re: Unemployment
 

Schneed FTW. Right on post.

Dynamite keep your head up. Im facing some stress as well at work with uncertainties in my department.

Re: Unemployment
 

Not sure how it works in your area but in NY the first step is to file for unemployment and if your employer challenges it, you can have your case heard with a mediator and in most cases the employee comes out on top. Unless you were fired for well documented performance related issues you should be entitled to unemployment benefits.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=Mattyk;982821]Not sure how it works in your area but in NY the first step is to file for unemployment and if your employer challenges it, you can have your case heard with a mediator and in most cases the employee comes out on top. Unless you were fired for well documented performance related issues you should be entitled to unemployment benefits.[/quote]


I think it goes state by state. So S10's advice was good but that maybe PA law. VA maybe different.

D-Rave if you live in DC/NOVA/MD you will find something pretty fast, plenty of jobs there.

Re: Unemployment
 

I would start the paper work but I would spend more time looking for a new job.

Re: Unemployment
 

Thanks for the advice. And to clear things up schneed, I was terminated. Not even by the owner of the business, which I thought was special.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;982866]Thanks for the advice. And to clear things up schneed, I was terminated. Not even by the owner of the business, which I thought was special.[/quote]


Screw them, they probably don't even deserve you!

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;982866]Thanks for the advice. And to clear things up schneed, I was terminated. Not even by the owner of the business, which I thought was special.[/QUOTE]

If you signed a contract upon hiring, your employer is bound by any rules for termination set forth in it. If there is an employee hand book, find it, read it and see what procedures (if any) it sets out for the termination process.

It is likely, however, that you were an "at will" employee which means you can be fired for any reason - other than something illegal or unconstitutional (think gender, race, religion, etc.).

And when I say "any reason" that's what I mean. In Maryland, as long as they didn't use the "performance related issues" to cover for something like race (which you would need to prove) and followed their own internal guidelines, an employer can fire you because he doesn't like you, thinks your jokes aren't funny or because he was in the mood to fire someone and you happened to be the first one through the door.

As to unemployment, file for benefits, but it sounds like a "for cause" firing, in which case, you are likely to be SOL.

[QUOTE=firstdown;982830]I would start the paper work but I would spend more time looking for a new job.[/QUOTE]

Yup. Best advice.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;982885]If you signed a contract upon hiring, your employer is bound by any rules for termination set forth in it. If there is an employee hand book, find it, read it and see what procedures (if any) it sets out for the termination process.

It is likely, however, that you were an "at will" employee which means you can be fired for any reason - other than something illegal or unconstitutional (think gender, race, religion, etc.).

And when I say "any reason" that's what I mean. In Maryland, as long as they didn't use the "performance related issues" to cover for something like race (which you would need to prove) and followed their own internal guidelines, an employer can fire you because he doesn't like you, thinks your jokes aren't funny or because he was in the mood to fire someone and you happened to be the first one through the door.

As to unemployment, file for benefits, but it sounds like a "for cause" firing, in which case, you are likely to be SOL.[/quote]

Virginia is a right to work state and an employer can fire you for any reason.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=firstdown;983005]Virginia is a right to work state and an employer can fire you for any reason.[/quote]

Yup. There's my problem.

I am throwing applications out there and mred, I notice there are a lot of jobs, I just don't have the right experience for most of them. I'm hoping this is my chance to catch a break though.

I'm 26 with 2 college degrees and sick to death of retail.

Re: Unemployment
 

Good luck hunting DRave

Re: Unemployment
 

Sorry something this shitty happened to you. Hell of a way to start the year. :( Look on there bright side, it opens new doors for you in your life, and don't always be bound by something local. If you can pack and move freely and find something career worthy, do it.


Hats off to the good sound advice from the Warpath crew in here.

Re: Unemployment
 

there is lots of good advice in here.

what field were you working in?

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=los panda;983075]there is lots of good advice in here.

what field were you working in?[/quote]

I've got 6 years of retail experience. 6 months of office administrative experience, thanks to volunteering.

A degree in psychology and finishing my degree in human science in a few months.

Bout it.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;983081]I've got 6 years of retail experience. 6 months of office administrative experience, thanks to volunteering.

A degree in psychology and finishing my degree in human science in a few months.

Bout it.[/quote]bout it bout it

go get 'em, tiger

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;983008]Yup. There's my problem.

I am throwing applications out there and mred, I notice there are a lot of jobs, I just don't have the right experience for most of them. I'm hoping this is my chance to catch a break though.

I'm 26 with 2 college degrees and sick to death of retail.[/quote]

DRave. Don't let your lack of work experience stop you. Most of the job reqs companies push out are filled with fluff and if they actually found someone that met all their qualifications they wouldn't be able to afford them. Be realistic -- go after entry level jobs if it's a new field. Most importantly, find the field you want to build a career in and apply like crazy. Focus on yourself as a person and less on hard skills. You can teach someone that is interested hard skills.

Cpayne gave me very similar advice when I graduated from my undergrad. Told me that people post wish lists, if you fit anything -- apply. I applied for a job, the recruiter called me back and said I didn't qualify for that job.... but asked me if I was interested in other opportunities. I don't regret a thing, it worked out great for me.

You're in a tough situation, but I've found things normally work out for the best. Do the paperwork you have to do, but keep pressing. Be confident, but modest. Show you're willing to learn and work hard and someone will give you a chance.

Re: Unemployment
 

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm doing the best I can, put in 15-20 applications yesterday and today. I'll see how things are looking in a week or so. Thanks for the well wishes!

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=firstdown;983005]Virginia is a right to work state and an employer can fire you for any reason.[/quote]
sounds iike a perfect reason for a union.

Re: Unemployment
 

(Edit) How about looking for jobs in nearby states that give rights/freedom to workers?

Look at the list of right to work states: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Wyoming.

Many are the poorest (crappiest) states in the union, in every sense of the word. It's a shame so many have given up on economic freedom, but at least we're free to get the eff out if we choose.

And yeah, keep your chin up. I got fired once and it was the best thing that could have happened looking back :)

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=firstdown;983005]Virginia is a right to work state and an employer can fire you for any reason.[/quote]

Wow. So as an employer you don't even need to document performance issues? Can an employee even bring a wrongful termination suit in VA?

Seems rough on the workers.

Re: Unemployment
 

Schneed

I think it depends on the size of the business. My company takes forever to force losers out. They have to go through lengthy and well documented processes. Typically they have to be put on a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) and given a chance to get better, etc.

Employees can bring suits, but the burden is on them to prove that they were discriminated against.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=dmek25;983113]sounds iike a perfect reason for a union.[/quote]

Unions don't provide any protection because they can fire you for any reason in Va. Its also a reason why Va is well below the unemploment rate in the US because itt attracts business. At some point as an employer you get tired of the gov. telling you how to run your business.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=firstdown;983224]Unions don't provide any protection because they can fire you for any reason in Va. Its also a reason why Va is well below the unemploment rate in the US because itt attracts business. At some point as an employer you get tired of the gov. telling you how to run your business.[/quote]

The reason VA is so far below the average unemployment rate is because of the government. So many jobs revolving around the government are in VA. It has nothing to do with right to work and has everything to do with the location. Many of the other right to work states have some of the worst unemployment in the nation.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=Schneed10;983188]Wow. So as an employer you don't even need to document performance issues? Can an employee even bring a wrongful termination suit in VA?

Seems rough on the workers.[/quote]
Seems rough but how many employers fire good/hard working employees? I don't know of any and if your boss/employee does not like you why would you want to work for them in the first place.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=Daseal;983228]The reason VA is so far below the average unemployment rate is because of the government. So many jobs revolving around the government are in VA. It has nothing to do with right to work and has everything to do with the location. Many of the other right to work states have some of the worst unemployment in the nation.[/quote]

Your factually incorect. If you look deeper into the numbers then what I have provided here you will see that heavy union states v/s right to work states very greatly. Most of the jobs Obama is saying he created from 2009 to 2012 greater then 70% of those jobs are in WTW states.

[url=http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/feb/28/bill-oreilly/bill-oreilly-says-unemployment-lower-right-work-st/]PolitiFact | Bill O'Reilly says unemployment is lower in 'right-to-work' states[/url]

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=Daseal;983228]The reason VA is so far below the average unemployment rate is because of the government. So many jobs revolving around the government are in VA. It has nothing to do with right to work and has everything to do with the location. Many of the other right to work states have some of the worst unemployment in the nation.[/quote]

You're a smart man.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=Daseal;983221]Schneed

I think it depends on the size of the business. My company takes forever to force losers out. They have to go through lengthy and well documented processes. Typically they have to be put on a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) and given a chance to get better, etc.

Employees can bring suits, but the burden is on them to prove that they were discriminated against.[/quote]

I am guessing you are partially right in that it depends on the size of the business. It is likely the restrictions you cite are more about protection from lawsuits and costly settlements than something imposed by law.

Without such procedures, large companies open themselves up to discrimination claims in a way smaller companies do not.

For example, if you have a company of 500 hundred employees with 10 people who have the discretion to fire people, the inevitiable inconsistencies between those 10 in exercising that discretion likely create questions of fact as to the underlying basis for firing specific employees - remember, each of the 10 is "the company" for termination. Those questions of fact make surviving a Motion to Dismiss difficult and would open the company up to lengthy and invasive discovery of its hiring and firing records and, in such cases, settlement may be viewed as a better option than spending the resources to fight an ultimately frivolous claim. The best protection against this is to have procedures in place, limit and codify the discretion allowed to make the process as uniform as possible which, in turn, provides a basis for quick and easy dismissal of frivolous suits. Thus, the larger the company, the more likely you are to have self-imposed procedures as a way to protect itself.

On the other hand, Joe Schmoe with 10 employees who does his own hiring and firing, doesn't have the concern that his practices are inconsistent (unless, of course, he is illegally discriminating). As such, while the occasional lawsuit may occur, it would be less likely to have the questions of fact generated by multiple decision-makers and, therefore, be more likely to an early dismissal. For smaller businesses where one or two people are in charge of hiring and firing, I would even recommend against anything but the most perfunctory of policies b/c all it they would do is create ways for you to screw-up procedurally and open yourself up to suit.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=Daseal;983228]The reason VA is so far below the average unemployment rate is because of the government. So many jobs revolving around the government are in VA. It has nothing to do with right to work and has everything to do with the location. Many of the other right to work states have some of the worst unemployment in the nation.[/quote]

So now explain why on average the other 21 Right to Work states have lower unem.

Re: Unemployment
 

virginia is a police state, everyone knows that

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;982783]I am currently unemployed! Huzzah!

So I got laid off today for the first time in my life. I've been working since I was 16 so I guess it was bound to happen someday.

My question is this, my employer (located in Virginia) cited "performance issues" as the reason they let me go. Which means getting anything from unemployment is probably out of the question. I haven't filed yet. I was also employed there for 6 months.

But I do have issues with this, and I was wondering if it would matter that 2 things happened:

1) They never approached me SAYING they had an issue with my performance. Not even in passing. Earlier, maybe 2-3 months into the job they pulled my aside and said hey work on this, work on this, you gotta do this better. Not long after that, they had mentioned that I was doing a lot better. Since then, they never said a word about me under performing.

2) Since THEY never approached me, I always approached THEM to ask about my performance. The last time I did approach them to ask how I was doing (which was early in December) and if there was anything I could do better, I was told "No, you're doing just fine." Unfortunately, I don't have any documentation that those meetings happened.

I wondered if any of this mattered if I ended up filing an appeal for unemployment. Or trying to file at all. I might not and just try to throw as many resumes out there as I can in a few days and see if anything sticks before the end of the month.[/quote]

I'm sorry I am so late replying to you, but I do have some experience with this.

Virginia is basically one of the hardest states to get unemployment benefits from. In this state, unless you lose your job because a place went out of business, you are pretty much screwed.

If there is any bad marks on your work record for ANYTHING, and I mean even the most insignificant thing, you won't get benefits. They tell you that you have a right to an appeal, but don't waste your time unless you have a high powered lawyer and lots of money.

The first thing that happens when you file for VA unemployment, the VEC will call your former company and get the facts on your dismissal. They purposely ask questions to find out if there was EVER ANY incidents concerning you. Even if you were 5 minutes late one time, the VEC can determine that you had "misconduct" and basically you are ineligible for benefits.

I was laid off in July of 2011, everyone that I worked with were put in a meeting and we were told that more than likely by November our company would be out of business and that they were trying to cut jobs to try and stay afloat. But when I went and filed for benefits, I was told i didn't qualify because the interviewer determined that "Misconduct" had occured. don't ask me how. But that's the truth..

Good luck my friend.

Re: Unemployment
 

With Va being in DC or part of it, and as DC the Govt capital of the USA, that is where the jobs are at it seems. With the govt type of work. Great pay and benefits to add to it.

Re: Unemployment
 

SS84 - You cannot be denied benefits unless you were terminated for misconduct. It's not that "misconduct" occurred in your employment history. Rather, the misconduct which caused your termination is the only conduct which can be considered by the VEC. Further, on appeal, it is the employer who bears the burden of showing that misconduct. It's true that the term "misconduct" will be broadly interpreted, but they can't make sh** up and they can't rely on conduct that wasn't the basis for your firing.

Did you appeal? Some employers will simply assert the firing was for misconduct in an attempt to avoid the hit on their unemployment insurance costs but give it up as soon as an appeal is filed.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=mredskins;982790]As long as you voluntarily didn't quit i believe they owe you unemployment.[/quote]

Not necessarily. Sounds like she was still in the probational period...which usually lasts about six to nine months I think. So, in that length of time, a company can fire you without going through a three strikes procedure.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;983547]SS84 - You cannot be denied benefits unless you were terminated for misconduct. It's not that "misconduct" occurred in your employment history. Rather, the misconduct which caused your termination is the only conduct which can be considered by the VEC. Further, on appeal, it is the employer who bears the burden of showing that misconduct. It's true that the term "misconduct" will be broadly interpreted, but they can't make sh** up and they can't rely on conduct that wasn't the basis for your firing.

Did you appeal? Some employers will simply assert the firing was for misconduct in an attempt to avoid the hit on their unemployment insurance costs but give it up as soon as an appeal is filed.[/quote]



I'd listen to the lawyer on this one.

Re: Unemployment
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;983547]SS84 - You cannot be denied benefits unless you were terminated for misconduct. It's not that "misconduct" occurred in your employment history. Rather, the misconduct which caused your termination is the only conduct which can be considered by the VEC. Further, on appeal, it is the employer who bears the burden of showing that misconduct. It's true that the term "misconduct" will be broadly interpreted, but they can't make sh** up and they can't rely on conduct that wasn't the basis for your firing.

Did you appeal? Some employers will simply assert the firing was for misconduct in an attempt to avoid the hit on their unemployment insurance costs but give it up as soon as an appeal is filed.[/quote]

Great advice and a good analysis. To answer your question, I did not file the appeal because 2 days after losing my job, I was employed again at the company that I had 2 interviews with already. Long story short when we knew we were facing the layoffs, i got ready by putting out lots of applications and by the time I finally lost my job a few months later, i had another one lined right up.