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-   -   2021 NFL Draft Day!! (http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=64831)

skinsnut 05-02-2021 10:33 AM

Re: C. Cheeseman - LS - Draft Grade
 
[quote=MissouriSkin;1283034]People are literally looking for ways to be unhappy if they put in time to research how a sixth round pick sucks and is going to ruin the franchise. I would suggest they find another team or at least find another board to post their over the top ramblings on.[/quote]

I disagree, I appreciate his research and analysis, especially on late round picks with lumited info. I get his conclusions. That is the rub. I didnt see any evidence of draft failures in year one, so I have a more fingers crossed view that they have a board based on good scouting info that ee dont have. But on the surface, some late moves are head scatchers, especially trading next years pick for a rookie long snapper.

MissouriSkin 05-02-2021 10:37 AM

Re: C. Cheeseman - LS - Draft Grade
 
[quote=vallin21;1283035]Agreed. It amazes me how armchair scouts and GMís think they know more than the actual ones.[/quote]

I said earlier I think it stems from fantasy football and fantasy draft stuff. When I hear folks talk about trading down two spots for the same guy to max out value points, I stop listening after that. The real draft with real players just doesnít work that way. Or the folks saying you HAVE to go BPA at every spot and argue that even if that means you draft three straight left guards thatís ok because you win BPA points. It just doesnít work that way in the real world. We all know the draft is a crap shoot even for guys whoíve done it for twenty years. So to say a LS in round six is a F pick five minutes after the pick is made is just asinine. Say he becomes the best LS in the NFL and is here for a decade. Wonít look so bad then will it?

Number44 05-02-2021 11:01 AM

Re: C. Cheeseman - LS - Draft Grade
 
[quote=skinsnut;1283036]I disagree, I appreciate his research and analysis, especially on late round picks with lumited info. I get his conclusions. That is the rub. I didnt see any evidence of draft failures in year one, so I have a more fingers crossed view that they have a board based on good scouting info that ee dont have. But on the surface, some late moves are head scatchers, especially trading next years pick for a rookie long snapper.[/quote]

WFT traded a 5th next year for a 6th and a 7th this year. That isn't a bad deal value-wise. Drafting a LS doesn't happen often, but it does happen when a team needs a LS, which WFT did. Apparently, the LS we got is considered by many folks to be the best one available. LS seems unimportant -- until you don't have a good one, then it's a disaster. Plus, NFL teams have a better feel for what other teams may be thinking than we do. If we didn't trade with PHI for picks 225 and 240, it would have been pick 246 before we picked again. RR and his group may have felt another team would have drafted Cheeseman between 225 and 246. Would we have been able to find and sign a quality LS had we not done this? Maybe. Maybe not. Not to mention, the trade enabled us to not only get a LS, but also the 2 DEs we got in round 7, which we may have really wanted. A lot goes into it that isn't common knowledge to us. In any case, it certainly isn't something to get upset about.

BaltimoreSkins 05-02-2021 12:29 PM

Re: C. Cheeseman - LS - Draft Grade
 
[quote=GridIron26;1283032]Per Keim, Cheeseman was one of the best LS in NCAA. Granted, I didn't expect us to spend a pick on LS but since it's only 6th round pick so it's a small price to pay to ensure we don't have issues with LS this season. If we have trouble with LS, it can cost us games.[/quote]

Letís put it this way we use a late round pick which historically donít contribute right away and ensure we have a long snapper or we gamble that we can sign a quality rookie LS undrafted. It is a conservative move that ensures we get production out of a late round pick.

KI Skins Fan 05-02-2021 01:28 PM

Re: 2021 NFL Draft Day!!
 
I think I'll wait to see the players we drafted perform before I get upset about how they were drafted; nevertheless, it's nice to see the insights of someone who is so into the WFT and football.

During the draft, I got the feeling that the WFT executives were drafting based on a blend of BPA and need, using their own criteria to determine the BPA.

For example, good character and work ethic is a must for RR. What good does it do a team to draft players like Ryan Leaf, Aldon Smith, and Randy Gregory? They won't be playing on Sundays for long due to suspension for off the field issues. We also know that RR & Co. may value position flexibility and speed more than some other organizations. So, yes, they did draft for need this time around but I hardly think it was a binary choice between need and BPA.

EdmundDorf 05-02-2021 01:42 PM

Re: 2021 NFL Draft Day!!
 
Did feel like a bit of a box ticking exercise at times, that is maybe Martin Mayhews influence, there is such a thing as being too conservative. We will have to wait and see for the results

MissouriSkin 05-02-2021 01:47 PM

Re: 2021 NFL Draft Day!!
 
[quote=EdmundDorf;1283057]Did feel like a bit of a box ticking exercise at times, that is maybe Martin Mayhews influence, there is such a thing as being too conservative. We will have to wait and see for the results[/quote]

I would say the plan is to establish a more solid base before you take bigger risks. I think that is a wise approach. Say the team does well this year, and we have a solid base of younger players....then next year you maybe take a bigger risk to say get a QB. Itís easier to do when you have less holes to fill. Then that gives your new young QB a better team around him, which makes him better from the start. Conversely if we struggle this year, then itís not a bad thing that we didnít trade away a ton of high picks for a QB, and we have those picks to fill out the roster more.

EdmundDorf 05-02-2021 01:59 PM

Re: 2021 NFL Draft Day!!
 
I was not and would not advocate for trading the farm for a QB at this point. I am a believer in building the core up before dropping a rookie QB into the middle of it and expecting him to win. That I think is why so many highly drafted QBs fail. But a blocking TE, and a LS along with the trade of next years 5th for a very low 6th and a 7th seems like they were trying to fill needs in an area of the draft when BPA becomes more important

MissouriSkin 05-02-2021 02:07 PM

Re: 2021 NFL Draft Day!!
 
[quote=EdmundDorf;1283061]I was not and would not advocate for trading the farm for a QB at this point. I am a believer in building the core up before dropping a rookie QB into the middle of it and expecting him to win. That I think is why so many highly drafted QBs fail. But a blocking TE, and a LS along with the trade of next years 5th for a very low 6th and a 7th seems like they were trying to fill needs in an area of the draft when BPA becomes more important[/quote]

Well I feel BPA is overrated. If the BPA is in an area that you already have enough players at, then there is no sense drafting him. I think they did what is best, which is take the best available at a position of need and see what happens. To me, by that point in the draft youíre mostly just throwing darts at the dart board anyway. I mean, in round 6 if the guy was really good, heíd have already been taken. So in my mind, why not err on the side of the mix of BPA and need as opposed to just straight BPA. But Iím just a fan so I readily admit I donít know anything. 🙂

EdmundDorf 05-02-2021 02:21 PM

Re: 2021 NFL Draft Day!!
 
[quote=MissouriSkin;1283065]Well I feel BPA is overrated. If the BPA is in an area that you already have enough players at, then there is no sense drafting him. I think they did what is best, which is take the best available at a position of need and see what happens. To me, by that point in the draft youíre mostly just throwing darts at the dart board anyway. I mean, in round 6 if the guy was really good, heíd have already been taken. So in my mind, why not err on the side of the mix of BPA and need as opposed to just straight BPA. But Iím just a fan so I readily admit I donít know anything. 🙂[/quote]

me too :)

budw38 05-02-2021 02:43 PM

Re: 2021 NFL Draft Day!!
 
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uKx_jVTCHg[/url] S ) Forrest looks pretty good and aggressive .

budw38 05-02-2021 02:48 PM

Re: 2021 NFL Draft Day!!
 
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4xkW0uF_wM[/url] PSU DE / LB , looks damn good for a late rd pick .

EdmundDorf 05-02-2021 03:03 PM

Re: 2021 NFL Draft Day!!
 
[quote=budw38;1283068][url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4xkW0uF_wM[/url] PSU DE / LB , looks damn good for a late rd pick .[/quote]

Lot of people saying he was a steal, but he is too small too play DE in anything other than obvious passing downs and cannot cover so LB is not an option. Probably ideally a 3-4 OLB

punch it in 05-02-2021 03:36 PM

Re: 2021 NFL Draft Day!!
 
[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1283019]Lol. The moment I typed that out, I was like Punch will probably like this one.[/QUOTE]



Lack of profanity was the only reason for the minus.

Pervis_Griffith 05-02-2021 03:55 PM

Re: 2021 NFL Draft Day!!
 
I totally agree with MissouriSkin on BPA.

It's flaws as a draft strategy are just as glaring as a "only draft by need" strategy .... If you have a glut of established players at a position, it's stupid to draft the BPA if he fits in that glut. Conversely, it's stupid to only draft by need when the BPA is way better than the highest ranked position of need, AND you could improve your team with that BPA choice.

It feels like this year was a bit more "by need" focused ... especially late ...

And the trade of a 5th for two picks at the end of this draft feels like we know we're moving on from Sherff, and we will get a compensatory pick for him anyway, effectively replacing that 5th we just gave up.


Obviously we won't know how good these guys are until they play --- just look at how pleasantly surprised we were with Kam Curl last year. But the highlights for our day 3 picks impressed me.

I'm encouraged ... and think we found some real good players to add to our team.


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